[afadeev]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Especially if those super cheap i3 leases are still around when the 335 lease is up

Thanks everyone for the info. Looks like I'd have to keep the i3 as a local runabout only.

Too bad, since that 85 mile round trip drive is expensed at the usual ~$0.55 / mile. Would have a lot more $ in my pocket if I could make that drive in an i3 instead of an M3 (which does get 33mpg on the highway along this route.. far better than the window sticker 24mpg claim... the road tester must have been hammering on the car)

You can always get i3-REX to get you that extra range to complete 85 mile round trip without drama!

a

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by afadeev

You can always get i3-REX to get you that extra range to complete 85 mile round trip without drama!

a

that 85 miles trip is not the normal use case. It's a once or twice a week kind of thing.

The rest of the time I'd have to live with the extra weight of the engine and fuel and introduce another possible failure/maintenance point... Not quite the same, but to me its like getting full leather and a moonroof for M3 to make it a better cruiser.. why.?! adhere more closely to mission of the vehicle.. cloth seats and CF roof all the way..

in this case, fully specialize, get the BEV and take M3 for that trip

Isn't there also that program to borrow gas cars from BMW dealers for longer trips? Maybe I can just borrow a true highway luxobarge like a 550

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

that 85 miles trip is not the normal use case. It's a once or twice a week kind of thing.

The rest of the time I'd have to live with the extra weight of the engine and fuel and introduce another possible failure/maintenance point... Not quite the same, but to me its like getting full leather and a moonroof for M3 to make it a better cruiser.. why.?! adhere more closely to mission of the vehicle.. cloth seats and CF roof all the way..

in this case, fully specialize, get the BEV and take M3 for that trip

I think of REX as an insurance.
Slightly reduced mileage (4.5 miles/KWh for REX vs. 4.9 miles/Kwh on my loaner BEV) is a (small) price you pay for that insurance.

i3 handles like @#$% anyway, so another 250# for REX engine weight won't change that.

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Isn't there also that program to borrow gas cars from BMW dealers for longer trips? Maybe I can just borrow a true highway luxobarge like a 550

Only honored by "participating dealers", of which only BMW of Manhattan (BMW NA franchise store) is the only officially confirmed participant. I'm sure there is a second one somewhere out there...

If you need a ICE loaner, might as well take the M3 - you pay for gas regardless, and get there faster!

a

[JasH]

Originally Posted by afadeev

i3 handles like @#$% anyway,

Now that is definitely not true.

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by JasH

Now that is definitely not true.

Well I have to say my i3 handles pretty badly. I say this in two ways:

1) The steering is WAY over responsive. It would be insane for a sports car, much less a baby SUV type vehicle and

2) The ride is bouncy as heck and it leans a bit. You combine this with a bump and the front or rear slightly lifts, and you lose regen and/or steering.

I had to do an emergency avoidance with an oncoming truck that was way in my lane on a two lane road, and after I managed to over-respond TWICE (once almost off the road, once back into the car I was avoiding) only then to have the car act like it was understeering on the sharp turn right after (I still have no real idea why, I was not going fast at all) I am now seriously considering getting rid of it. Any other car I had it would been an absolute non-event.

On a daily drive it is just unpleasant, but now I believe in an emergency it is downright unsafe. Another forum member posted elsewhere that his wife had a very bad experience trying to avoid a deer, and now I know what he means.

[JasH]

That is interesting, and I think our different perspectives are perhaps explained by two things.

1/ I have a strong preference for highly geared steering on cars, so I like it, but can fully appreciate that others will see the steering/handling as "twitchy" and over-responsive.

2/ I originally borrowed the REx for 5 days, and there is a noticeable difference between it and the BEV. Having all that extra weight at the rear does affect the car, and certainly will add to any "pendulum effect" that arose when your car over-responded in an avoidance manoeuvre.

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by JasH

That is interesting, and I think our different perspectives are perhaps explained by two things.

1/ I have a strong preference for highly geared steering on cars, so I like it, but can fully appreciate that others will see the steering/handling as "twitchy" and over-responsive.

2/ I originally borrowed the REx for 5 days, and there is a noticeable difference between it and the BEV. Having all that extra weight at the rear does affect the car, and certainly will add to any "pendulum effect" that arose when your car over-responded in an avoidance manoeuvre.

Thanks for that, I was going to ask whether the Rex throws the car off too much in balance. I have seen others mention that also. It would not have mattered really, only reason I switched from the Leaf (a great commute car) to the i3 was for the Rex range (and that after the i8 I assumed it would have the same level of attention to engineering, but boy was I wrong!)

I do think steering has to be progressive. I do not want dead spots or numb and slow, but then again I don't want a video game controller either!

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by Epirali

Thanks for that, I was going to ask whether the Rex throws the car off too much in balance. I have seen others mention that also. It would not have mattered really, only reason I switched from the Leaf (a great commute car) to the i3 was for the Rex range (and that after the i8 I assumed it would have the same level of attention to engineering, but boy was I wrong!)

Haven driven for multiple days (but not tracked or autoX-ed) both i3's (BEV and REX), I can definitely confirm that REX's extra weight can be felt. However, I do not agree that it changes the driving dynamics much, and there is certainly no "pendulum effect". What there is are way too soft springs, underdamped shocks, and no sway bar on the car, resulting in too much body lean during hard turns.

Originally Posted by Epirali

I do think steering has to be progressive. I do not want dead spots or numb and slow, but then again I don't want a video game controller either!

I agree that steering is way too light, and too sensitive, on the i3.
Some of this has to do with zero toe or toe-out alignment that a large number of i3's get at the factory (correctable under warranty within the first 1K miles, SOL after that). But that's probably #3 on my handling concerns' list with this car.

For me:
1). Endlessly floaty weight transfer under lateral loads (turns). The load transfer just never settles, and the more the car leans, the less traction it seams to have (thus HUGELY unpredictable behavior under emergency avoidance maneuvers). It gets worse at higher speeds. This is likely due to the combination of soft springs, soft shock valving, and no sway bars.
2). Pause in ABS application after regen braking proves to be inadequate for the circumstances. I almost ran into a back of someone when I had to nail the brakes - there was a lurch forward before ABS brakes kicked in (regen brakes disengaged first?). Later on I was able to repeat the same sequence on demand. Not good.
3). Straight line stability challenges at highway speeds. Between light weight (normally a great thing!), thin tires that track grooves in the pavement, and high side profile that catches wind easily, i3 takes an effort to keep going straight at highway speeds.

The above three observations apply full to BEV as well as REX vehicles.
Granted, I'm comparing them to other BMWs and M-cars in particular, and I would probably feel a lot more positive about i3's handling if compared to a Honda Fit or Nissan Leaf.

BMW really meant when they said they are building a mega-city car, and put together the suspension package for pot-holed city driving.

Unfortunately for the US buyers, cities are unlikely to be the primary driving destinations of i3's due to the sparse public charging infrastructure (even in NYC near BMW NA headquarters). So these cars are used as regular commuter vehicle on proper roads and highways, which exposes suspension limitations.

a

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by Epirali

Thanks for that, I was going to ask whether the Rex throws the car off too much in balance. I have seen others mention that also.

Lets look at the front/rear weight % distribution between two cars:
BEV: 48/52 off the total 2634 #s, so 1264 #s over front axle
REX: 45/55 off the total 2899 #s, so 1305 #s over front axle

The weight distro is not that different between two cars, and REX has more weight on both front and rear axles. It could imply more understeer at the limit of traction, but that's not the problem we are discussing here

http://www.bmwblog.com/2014/12/05/underbody-bmw-i3-rex/

[jadnashuanh]

FWIW, the i3 uses different springs between the BEV and the REx to account for the different axle loadings.

The brakes work like any other vehicle's hydraulic brakes. Regen does not use the brakes at all...deceleration is caused by switching the motor from driving the car to being a generator, which creates a load, slowing the car while generating some electricity in the process - similar to how a manual transmission car works if you downshift while slowing and use engine compression (modern automatics tend to coast with little engine braking). If the car hits some bumps while in regen, the regen is either shut down or reduced, depending on how severe or their longevity. This can be disconcerting as the car will then coast verses be slowing down. One always needs to be ready to actually use the brakes.

I do not have problems switching from my i3 which is my main day-to-day ride, verses my ICE that I use for longer trips or if I need to carry more than the i3 can handle. I miss the one-pedal driving and the first stop of the day in the ICE takes a moment to get right. I also miss the tight turning radius, and occasionally need to be more careful when pulling into a parking space, but I have no issues with driving the thing on the interstate or local lower-speed roads, and it DOES get windy here. FWIW, with the winter tires, I had no issues last winter, either, and we had some record snow falls and cold temperatures.

Driving is a full-time job. With a car that is highly responsive, a moment of inattention can be problematic. The car goes where you point it, and it does not take much input to cause it to change direction. IOW, it takes some skill and attention. Lacking that, it can, like any tool, be dangerous. The German mentality seems to be that personal responsibility is the norm, and they require a person to have some modicum of skill before they give them a driving license. THe i3 is not a vehicle for everyone, but everyone can drive it safely if they make that their first task. It appears that the vast majority of people complaining about the handling on the car are Americans where with our wide roads, and general lack of skill required to drive a 'normal' car has made us sloppy. Try driving at autobahn speeds daily, and your skill level increases, and if you aren't paying attention to actually driving, you'll create a major hazard for not only yourself, but others on the road. Maybe my couple of years living in Germany made me a better driver. Changing the i3's handling would take away some of its character.

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

Driving is a full-time job. With a car that is highly responsive, a moment of inattention can be problematic. The car goes where you point it, and it does not take much input to cause it to change direction. IOW, it takes some skill and attention. Lacking that, it can, like any tool, be dangerous. The German mentality seems to be that personal responsibility is the norm, and they require a person to have some modicum of skill before they give them a driving license. THe i3 is not a vehicle for everyone, but everyone can drive it safely if they make that their first task. It appears that the vast majority of people complaining about the handling on the car are Americans where with our wide roads, and general lack of skill required to drive a 'normal' car has made us sloppy. Try driving at autobahn speeds daily, and your skill level increases, and if you aren't paying attention to actually driving, you'll create a major hazard for not only yourself, but others on the road. Maybe my couple of years living in Germany made me a better driver. Changing the i3's handling would take away some of its character.

Well this may have some truth to it, but trust me it is not universally true. The i3 is the LEAST capable car I drive on regular basis. I have absolutely no issue with attentiveness, have never owned an "American" car and own five german cars.

And I will still say the i3 handling is wrong. It is not responsive, it is OVER responsive and just plain bad. Any car can be driven with a lot of attention, that is not the point. The point is how well the car gives feedback and ALLOWS the driver to control the situation. All my other cars create a very tight control/feedback look between the driver, the road and the conditions. The i3 does not. It is detached from what is going on and simply over-reacts to everything (acceleration, deceleration, steering) to make it SEEM like it is a sporty car.

The i3 is a video game car, plain and simple. And this makes for a dangerous car in emergency maneuvers.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by Epirali

Well this may have some truth to it, but trust me it is not universally true. The i3 is the LEAST capable car I drive on regular basis. I have absolutely no issue with attentiveness, have never owned an "American" car and own five german cars.

And I will still say the i3 handling is wrong. It is not responsive, it is OVER responsive and just plain bad. Any car can be driven with a lot of attention, that is not the point. The point is how well the car gives feedback and ALLOWS the driver to control the situation. All my other cars create a very tight control/feedback look between the driver, the road and the conditions. The i3 does not. It is detached from what is going on and simply over-reacts to everything (acceleration, deceleration, steering) to make it SEEM like it is a sporty car.

The i3 is a video game car, plain and simple. And this makes for a dangerous car in emergency maneuvers.

Well considering I live in Chicago and drive in the city on almost a daily basis I can say without a. Doubt it does a great job for what's it's designed to do. When traffic is bad and drivers are in and out everywhere the very touchy steering serves me well. My wife prefers this cars ride in the city Vs our other cars we have. The turning circle is a blessing and honestly I don't have one complaint.

Now when I lived in Indiana and had hours of corn fields and highway my 1 series was a dream. I do enjoy the drive in the i3 more than the 5 series I had for a month but that's just personal taste.

I think when used for its purpose it's hard to find a fault. It's like a modern day Isetta (efficiency), but fits 4 comfortably. Not every BMW has to be a road warrior but I think it handles it's own just fine.

Perhaps the i5 whenever that comes out will be more of a highway cruiser.

[jadnashuanh]

Just like a good toolbox has different tools specialized for certain things, not every car is designed for everything. The i3 is designed to work very well in a dense, city environment. That you can use a pair of pliers to remove a nut doesn't make it the best tool for the job...same thing with the i3.

[JasH]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Granted, I'm comparing them to other BMWs and M-cars in particular,

I honestly struggle to recognise the badly handling car that a couple of you are describing.

May I suggest that the reasons may be due to:

1/ As you state, you are comparing the i3 (a city car) with "normal" BMWs and M cars.

The i3 is a tall, narrow city car of course, and ought to be compared with similar vehicles, as that is its design purpose. It is no different to me comparing an M saloon car to a mid engined track car, on track, and saying the M car is a wobbly, softly sprung handling mess of a car on track i.e. not comparable and unfair.

2/ Given the cars you are comparing it to, another thing occurs to me. Those cars are all front heavy RWD cars. The i3 (BEV in particular) is more akin to a mid engine RWD car in terms of its weight distribution.

The i3 will therefore have a very rapid response to steering inputs, and rapid yaw. Quite unlike front engined heavy cars.

Perhaps these factors explain why you think the handling is so bad?

[Epirali]

Seeing that some posters (who's opinion I have grown to respect) don't seem to find the i3 as twitchy and bad as I do I am wondering about variability of i3s. I have only driven one (mine, test drove and took home). Even accounting for the "Rex factor" the car I have is not just a case of "right tool for the right job," it is just plain bad. I am not stuck on any one "style" of car or response, but I actually have to work hard to make the car behave in simple driving situations (and I am not trying to board, but I am relatively skilled driver).

I mean I drove a Nissan Leaf and for what it was (soft, mooshy, not precise) it was infinitely better and more controllable than my i3. I mean if that doesn't tell you something I don't know what else to day.

[jadnashuanh]

When Motorweek reviewed the 2015 i3, and also in their initial report in 2014 on the thing, they did not mention any issues with the steering. You can watch the segment, it's on-line. They did mention that they felt the grip on their lane change portion was limited by the tires, and their braking distance was longer than they thought, but they also said that their equipment got triggered by the regen that started as they lifted off the pedal, and the actual distance traveled while actually actively braking was hard to determine - the brakes can decelerate a lot faster than regen can, so there are likely at least a few feet (and maybe more) in the recorded distance.

FWIW, I've driven two, one when BMW was doing their roving drive introductions at the dealerships, and the one I eventually bought. I did not notice differences between the two, but that is a very small sample. If anything, the initial one I drove had probably a lot more miles and tougher ones, as people were beating on the things to try them out. I know that I got to about 83 on the entrance ramp of my initial tester before I looked down and realized I really should slow down! The car felt fine.

The weight distribution between the BEV and the REx isn't huge, but it is measurable. The front springs on the REx are softer to account for the leverage of the extra weight so that the front end on both versions stays the same (not sure about the shocks...they may be different, too). The GVW on the REx is lower, to account for that extra baggage you are always carrying around (one VERY substantial person, or more likely, two 'normal' people).

[GeorgeJ.]

Originally Posted by Epirali

Well I have to say my i3 handles pretty badly. I say this in two ways:

1) The steering is WAY over responsive. It would be insane for a sports car, much less a baby SUV type vehicle and

2) The ride is bouncy as heck and it leans a bit. You combine this with a bump and the front or rear slightly lifts, and you lose regen and/or steering.

I had to do an emergency avoidance with an oncoming truck that was way in my lane on a two lane road, and after I managed to over-respond TWICE (once almost off the road, once back into the car I was avoiding) only then to have the car act like it was understeering on the sharp turn right after (I still have no real idea why, I was not going fast at all) I am now seriously considering getting rid of it. Any other car I had it would been an absolute non-event.

On a daily drive it is just unpleasant, but now I believe in an emergency it is downright unsafe. Another forum member posted elsewhere that his wife had a very bad experience trying to avoid a deer, and now I know what he means.

Seems like the wrong car for you and you are right that you should get rid of it.

Originally Posted by -c-

Well considering I live in Chicago and drive in the city on almost a daily basis I can say without a. Doubt it does a great job for what's it's designed to do. When traffic is bad and drivers are in and out everywhere the very touchy steering serves me well. My wife prefers this cars ride in the city Vs our other cars we have. The turning circle is a blessing and honestly I don't have one complaint.

Now when I lived in Indiana and had hours of corn fields and highway my 1 series was a dream. I do enjoy the drive in the i3 more than the 5 series I had for a month but that's just personal taste.

I think when used for its purpose it's hard to find a fault. It's like a modern day Isetta (efficiency), but fits 4 comfortably. Not every BMW has to be a road warrior but I think it handles it's own just fine.

Perhaps the i5 whenever that comes out will be more of a highway cruiser.

I am firmly in this camp. The i3 is the "Ultimate (city) Driving Machine". I am fairly certain I can get across town (San Francisco in traffic) quicker in this car than any car I have driven, and I would guess faster than most.

The i3 is short which means it can get in and out of tight gaps readily. It also means over bumps and other irregularities it will hobby horse and will get twitchy when driving aggressively in the twisties so you need to be on it if you drive hard. The M3 is 184.5 inches in length, my previous Dinan tuned 135i was 172.2 inches, and the i3 is only 157.4 inches long (five and a half inches longer than a Mini). The Lancia Stratos was known to be twitchy though not dragged threw the mud for this characteristic.

I just had a great bonsai drive from the Russian River to Sebastopol over great back roads and it was really fun to get the most out of it. It was not as balanced as the 135i over this stretch but it was not lacking. I have had several hundred days and a few thousand track miles on Laguna Seca, Sears Point, and Thunder Hill so please know I appreciate when a car works for me. I like the steering. It has no feedback but it is precise and makes for surgical maneuvers.

Braking with regen is ok and considering the energy capture is very cool. It is limited by the fact that it acts only on the rear wheels. I have to believe the next generation will be all wheel drive and all wheel braking. This latter aspect, I would think, will eliminate the need for friction brakes and could be a game changer in the dynamics of iBMW's.

Don't take a knife to a gun fight and don't try to take a boat through city streets, you won't win. - GJ

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJ.

Don't take a knife to a gun fight and don't try to take a boat through city streets, you won't win. - GJ

I think you missed my point. It is not a "wrong car for the wrong task" issue. I would say the false over responsiveness makes it a dangerous car in emergency maneuver. The whole "city car" argument is a bit of a red herring for this. An avoidance maneuver is an avoidance maneuver, city or open road (unless you plan to only drive 20 mph).

Also I am fairly well versed in car suspensions, can someone explain the whole argument that a short wheel base car MUST bouncy by nature? Because this hasn't been my experience in the past with other cars. It seems the bounciness is much more from the choice of suspension that anything inherent in the design.

Comparison:
BMW i3 wheelbase: 2,570 mm (996 K)
BMW Z4 M wheelbase: 2,495 mm, (1,450 kg)
Toyota MR2 (last generation): 2,451 mm (1,195 kg)
Nissan Leaf: 2,700 mm (1,493 K)

The i3 is just completely bouncy and has tons of lateral motion compared to either of these cars. The Leaf only has 130 mm longer wheel base BUT is much heavier, yet doesn't suffer from this. The MR2 suspension was superior in ALL aspects to the i3 (including handling, ride and cornering). The M Roadster is shorter and heavier and suffers no ill effects (and is in fact damn capable).

So why are some people continuously throwing around "city car" or "sporty" as if no other car has ever had a similar wheelbase and a tight suspension? If anything the i3 has a great advantage over most of these cars because of the very low CG from the battery weight.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by Epirali

I think you missed my point. It is not a "wrong car for the wrong task" issue. I would say the false over responsiveness makes it a dangerous car in emergency maneuver. The whole "city car" argument is a bit of a red herring for this. An avoidance maneuver is an avoidance maneuver, city or open road (unless you plan to only drive 20 mph).

Also I am fairly well versed in car suspensions, can someone explain the whole argument that a short wheel base car MUST bouncy by nature? Because this hasn't been my experience in the past with other cars. It seems the bounciness is much more from the choice of suspension that anything inherent in the design.

Comparison:
BMW i3 wheelbase: 2,570 mm (996 K)
BMW Z4 M wheelbase: 2,495 mm, (1,450 kg)
Toyota MR2 (last generation): 2,451 mm (1,195 kg)
Nissan Leaf: 2,700 mm (1,493 K)

The i3 is just completely bouncy and has tons of lateral motion compared to either of these cars. The Leaf only has 130 mm longer wheel base BUT is much heavier, yet doesn't suffer from this. The MR2 suspension was superior in ALL aspects to the i3 (including handling, ride and cornering). The M Roadster is shorter and heavier and suffers no ill effects (and is in fact damn capable).

So why are some people continuously throwing around "city car" or "sporty" as if no other car has ever had a similar wheelbase and a tight suspension? If anything the i3 has a great advantage over most of these cars because of the very low CG from the battery weight.

Well I had one quick maneuver where a car drove in my lane due to sun blindness and I had to literally turn into oncoming traffic to miss him and then dart into a parking lot to miss the said oncoming traffic, I was traveling about 45mph. Just had to yank the wheel the the left and the car instantly reacted and handled the situation with ease. And it was a very hard turn. So again I've been very impressed so far with it and that's even without a sway bar.

Wish I could have just swerved right to miss him but their was a car to my right.


Now it's very possible tire pressures could play a role here. Mine are almost 40psi so not sure if lower psi could lead to a more fishy driver experience. Otherwise I've been very pleased with it.

Mind you I've owned many great handling cars in my day so it's not like I'm totally numb in my reasoning. But it's possible that their are a few factors contributing to your experience of the car.

Road conditions, badly worn road, tire pressure, bumpy Tarmac I've even had cars behave badly on old roads where oil and rubber has somewhat polished the surface, where in the morning dew it can get squirrely on you.

But the only time I can say the car handled differently than other cars I've had (had a smart car for two years, similar characteristics, narrow tires for example ) was in the winter, my fault for having the 20" summer tires on but having bought it in December and no 20" winter tires available I thought I'd see how bad the OE tires where, Every time I tried to stop or let my foot off the gas the rear wanted to come around on you from the regen braking it was like pulling the e-brake all the time.

That was not fun, and will be getting a rim and tire package for this winter but otherwise I get total confidence while in the car.

Perhaps take your car to an auto-X or a track day event to learn its characteristics and adapt to learn how to use it in a way that takes advantage of what it can do. I've found it very helpful in every car I've owned and I know the cars limits and what it can safely take.

It's a mid engined electric car, it's going to handle different that many other cars on the road, the narrow and tall tires will also play into this for lateral moves especially.

BMW is not in the business of making bad handling cars and their knowledge of how to make a car handle good is probably second to none, but I'm sure in testing they found it adequate, and found they didn't have the need for a sway bar and such plus with the money invested in the program im not sure they wanted a dud.

Who knows just my thoughts. .

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by -c-

Well I had one quick maneuver where a car drove in my lane due to sun blindness and I had to literally turn into oncoming traffic to miss him and then dart into a parking lot to miss the said oncoming traffic, I was traveling about 45mph. Just had to yank the wheel the the left and the car instantly reacted and handled the situation with ease. And it was a very hard turn. So again I've been very impressed so far with it and that's even without a sway bar.

Wish I could have just swerved right to miss him but their was a car to my right.


Now it's very possible tire pressures could play a role here. Mine are almost 40psi so not sure if lower psi could lead to a more fishy driver experience. Otherwise I've been very pleased with it.

Mind you I've owned many great handling cars in my day so it's not like I'm totally numb in my reasoning. But it's possible that their are a few factors contributing to your experience of the car.

Road conditions, badly worn road, tire pressure, bumpy Tarmac I've even had cars behave badly on old roads where oil and rubber has somewhat polished the surface, where in the morning dew it can get squirrely on you.

But the only time I can say the car handled differently than other cars I've had (had a smart car for two years, similar characteristics, narrow tires for example ) was in the winter, my fault for having the 20" summer tires on but having bought it in December and no 20" winter tires available I thought I'd see how bad the OE tires where, Every time I tried to stop or let my foot off the gas the rear wanted to come around on you from the regen braking it was like pulling the e-brake all the time.

That was not fun, and will be getting a rim and tire package for this winter but otherwise I get total confidence while in the car.

Perhaps take your car to an auto-X or a track day event to learn its characteristics and adapt to learn how to use it in a way that takes advantage of what it can do. I've found it very helpful in every car I've owned and I know the cars limits and what it can safely take.

It's a mid engined electric car, it's going to handle different that many other cars on the road, the narrow and tall tires will also play into this for lateral moves especially.

BMW is not in the business of making bad handling cars and their knowledge of how to make a car handle good is probably second to none, but I'm sure in testing they found it adequate, and found they didn't have the need for a sway bar and such plus with the money invested in the program im not sure they wanted a dud.

Who knows just my thoughts. .

All good thoughts!

Unfortunately I have my tires at +5 psi over recommended (both for tracking and efficiency), the car/tires only have 2000 miles on them, and there is no alignment issue whatsoever.

I guess I'll just find myself in the minority of opinion. I am seriously considering getting ride of the car in the near future.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by Epirali

All good thoughts!

Unfortunately I have my tires at +5 psi over recommended (both for tracking and efficiency), the car/tires only have 2000 miles on them, and there is no alignment issue whatsoever.

I guess I'll just find myself in the minority of opinion. I am seriously considering getting ride of the car in the near future.

You know it just crossed my mind, I have the 20" sport tires I wonder if the bigger wheel and sport tires make a difference.

The sway bar would be nice to add if they could, get rid of some of the lean.
It's definitely different driving the 20" wheels vs the loaner i3 I had.

[nicknaz]

Did i read that correctly? Zero toe or toe out in the front? Thats very surprising from a commuter car.

I'm also surprised at any expectations of "handling". The i3 has some really skinny low grip (excuse me, low rolling resistance) tires and its designed to be urban commuter appliance. What else would it be other than a mediocre or poor handler?

I dont mean that as a put down, its actually why i am interested in the car. Commuter appliance with a roundel (and cheap lease)

Edit... Arent the "sport" tires still 175mm wide only and still low rolling resistance compound? Why are they called "sport"?