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      08-19-2014, 01:32 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Kevin_Genius@BMWMtLaurel View Post
you've driven a Volt, right? I tried parking one and almost wanted to give up, the windows are SO high in that thing! Understeer is a huge concern as well
I have. I found it well built, good handling, good brakes, and efficient use of space. The i3 I found the same, a bit better handling though, but the constant on/off power of the regen braking was a huge concern, and the rear seat access very obscure.
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      08-19-2014, 04:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by JasH View Post
Just curious, what is the difference between Euro and US Rex cars?
Experts will weigh in though to me seems gas tank and control to initiate the rex motor are the primary difference. The USA tank is 1.9 gal vs 2.4 gal everywhere else. In the USA market the driver has no control to initiate the rex motor, it starts automatically only when the battery is down to 5% (about). Elsewhere the driver can start the rex motor when the battery has about 25% remaining.

For me the bev or rex would work for 98% of my driving. It is the odd small trip where the USA rex fails. With the non USA set up I could imagine going on a 200-300 mile weekend. That is at 25% SOC start the rex motor and run the gas out or to the edge and refill (perhaps more than once). With the USA rex cutting it close is too great a risk not to mention the (slightly smaller tank). Had they not hobbled the USA rex in this manner I would already have one. Instead I continue to burn gasoline with reckless abandon in my 135i. I hope BMW hears this type of message enough and offers a real range extended version (and I don't need and HOV lane sticker, thanks. Most of my driving is in the city with no HOV lanes.
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      08-19-2014, 05:35 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeJ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasH View Post
Just curious, what is the difference between Euro and US Rex cars?
Experts will weigh in though to me seems gas tank and control to initiate the rex motor are the primary difference. The USA tank is 1.9 gal vs 2.4 gal everywhere else. In the USA market the driver has no control to initiate the rex motor, it starts automatically only when the battery is down to 5% (about). Elsewhere the driver can start the rex motor when the battery has about 25% remaining.

For me the bev or rex would work for 98% of my driving. It is the odd small trip where the USA rex fails. With the non USA set up I could imagine going on a 200-300 mile weekend. That is at 25% SOC start the rex motor and run the gas out or to the edge and refill (perhaps more than once). With the USA rex cutting it close is too great a risk not to mention the (slightly smaller tank). Had they not hobbled the USA rex in this manner I would already have one. Instead I continue to burn gasoline with reckless abandon in my 135i. I hope BMW hears this type of message enough and offers a real range extended version (and I don't need and HOV lane sticker, thanks. Most of my driving is in the city with no HOV lanes.
Makes me wonder if one were to get a euro gas tank and retrofit it to the Rex. Then get someone to reprogram it to euro spec so the Rex could be turned on at any time. Give it time I'm sure someone will do it.
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      08-19-2014, 05:38 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin_Genius@BMWMtLaurel View Post
you've driven a Volt, right? I tried parking one and almost wanted to give up, the windows are SO high in that thing! Understeer is a huge concern as well
I'm sorry, but the snob factor in you is a 10+. Understeer? Give me a break as if these types of cars are made for the track. If you were driving that fast in the Volt to experience understeer then you were being an idiot on the road.

Given your username, are you a CA? If so I'm glad you are nowhere near me.
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      08-20-2014, 06:08 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by EPOS View Post
I'm sorry, but the snob factor in you is a 10+. Understeer? Give me a break as if these types of cars are made for the track. If you were driving that fast in the Volt to experience understeer then you were being an idiot on the road.

Given your username, are you a CA? If so I'm glad you are nowhere near me.
LOL. My thought exactly. He probably doesn't even know what understeer is anyway. I find it funny when the i3 gets associated with excellent BMW driving dynamics (it's not bad), when most of the new BMWs don't even have BMW driving dynamics anymore, and the Volt gets assumed to be a poor driver (it's not). To take advantage of the i3's BMW driving dynamics, you'd need to get the car out into the countryside where there are actually good roads to exploit such car capabilities, however with a 80 mile range the i3 can't get out to such places to use its great driving dynamics, or at least can't get back...

Both cars are quite capable handlers in the urban environment they are designed to operate in.
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      08-20-2014, 06:50 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
To take advantage of the i3's BMW driving dynamics, you'd need to get the car out into the countryside where there are actually good roads to exploit such car capabilities, however with a 80 mile range the i3 can't get out to such places to use its great driving dynamics, or at least can't get back...
Luckily, I can get to the country in a 10 min walk let alone a drive
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      08-20-2014, 07:34 AM   #29
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Luckily, I can get to the country in a 10 min walk let alone a drive
I just have to walk out my door . Now getting the car here from the dealer, that's a different story.
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      08-20-2014, 09:47 AM   #30
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George, thanks. btw the UK REx allows you to switch on the engine from 75% charge I believe.

But I will probably for the BEV version if I order one. I prefer a lighter car, for the handling feel, and would notice even an extra 120kg.
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      08-20-2014, 01:24 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by JasH View Post
George, thanks. btw the UK REx allows you to switch on the engine from 75% charge I believe.

But I will probably for the BEV version if I order one. I prefer a lighter car, for the handling feel, and would notice even an extra 120kg.
Thanks. Better still at 75% (I must have been remembering using 25%). I'd prefer the bev version for the improved day to day dynamics though range anxiety is strong with me. Just give me the Euro rex and call it a third model - REXX
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      08-20-2014, 01:48 PM   #32
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I am borrowing an i3 REx for this weekend, so will be able to form a view on my level of range anxiety. And also on whether I will order an i3.

Based on my expected journeys in that car, I believe a reliable 80 mile range would suffice for me. That seems achievable in real world use, reading what others have said.
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      08-20-2014, 07:11 PM   #33
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The EV range unassisted on the REx is less than the BEV because of the extra weight it is always carrying around and may not use, and, the rear tires are wider, leading to slightly more drag (but those tires are standard on some models of the BEV, too). There can be a really big difference in the range based on the operating mode chosen, outside temperature, the terrain, your driving technique, and how fast you drive. BMW says 70-120 miles. IN the USA, the EPA says 82 on the BEV and lower on the REx. Your results may vary. Driving with the windows down verses the a/c also increases drag at a fairly low speed, therefore maximum range will drop as you go faster more than it could with the windows up and the drag reduced).

Over time, the batteries will lose some capacity. NObody really knows yet how much, or how quickly. The warranty will replace the battery if it cannot hold at least 70% at up to 8-years. So going 80-miles on a BEV is very optimistic for all drivers under all conditions on all trips for 8-years.
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      08-21-2014, 05:55 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by ultraturtle View Post
I respect your choice.

I keep forgetting that as EVs become more mainstream, they appeal to the larger group of folks that appreciate spirited acceleration and smooth/quiet drivetrain more than the economy and desire to reduce our impact on the earth's resources that early adopters sought in order to get the movement started.

At least some of your miles will be electric. Too bad more of them will not.
Whether driving electric miles or carbon-fuel miles, each mile has an impact on the Earth's resources (as does every breath you take since it adds carbon dioxide to the atmosphere). If the concern is preserving the Earth's resources, then just stop driving altogether. If you don't think that is possible, then drastically change you lifestyle so you don't have to drive and you can walk everywhere. If the Earth's resources are that important to you, then make the maximum sacrifice as possible.
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      08-21-2014, 02:27 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
So going 80-miles on a BEV is very optimistic for all drivers under all conditions on all trips for 8-years.
Fair points

I am borrowing an i3 for this weekend, so will test it extensively for range among other things.

My commute is a 58 mile round trip btw. (An 80 mile range leaves sufficient safety margin.)
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      08-23-2014, 12:22 PM   #36
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Just curious, what is the difference between Euro and US Rex cars?
To clear this up once and for all: there is no difference in gas tank size from the US to the EU market!

For Europe, you can enable the REX once the charge is below 75%. Euro i3's also have sunroofs available as a option
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      08-23-2014, 12:24 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EPOS View Post
I'm sorry, but the snob factor in you is a 10+. Understeer? Give me a break as if these types of cars are made for the track. If you were driving that fast in the Volt to experience understeer then you were being an idiot on the road.

Given your username, are you a CA? If so I'm glad you are nowhere near me.
I'm not a CA nor do I ever plan to be one.

Understeer as well as turning radius is a huge factor for a urban environment, what about emergency situations? Having all that weight push the car around when you need to be in control?

And yes, I do know what understeer is.....look at what car I drive
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      08-23-2014, 12:25 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post

Over time, the batteries will lose some capacity. NObody really knows yet how much, or how quickly. The warranty will replace the battery if it cannot hold at least 70% at up to 8-years. So going 80-miles on a BEV is very optimistic for all drivers under all conditions on all trips for 8-years.
If you live in a CARB state, its 10 years 150k warranty on the Li-Ion batteries
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      08-23-2014, 01:00 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Kevin_Genius@BMWMtLaurel View Post
To clear this up once and for all: there is no difference in gas tank size from the US to the EU market!

For Europe, you can enable the REX once the charge is below 75%. Euro i3's also have sunroofs available as a option
Not sure what BMW NA is doing to train their 'Genius's" but it seems not much.

If I "have a question about what type of oil to put in your 3 Series? Or a question on how to pair your new phone to your BMW? How about fuel mileage on our new Diesel models? Kevin is your go-to expert who will be able to assist you on all of your "Ultimate Driving Machine" needs! "

With regards to the gas tank it is clear from information posted by BMW, i3 owners, and most in discussion on the web since June the USA version gets a 7 liter tank and everyone else gets a 9 liter tank. BMW caved in to deliver a vehicle with greater electric only range than gas assisted to qualify as a bevx vehicle.

BMW could have done a far better job of training their people on the i brand (all their cars really). With the new technology and differences in utility it is essential to have the consumers fully informed before they buy. The folks running the test drive I attended some months back didn't know much more than how to start it and engage drive. Hard to build momentum this way.
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      08-23-2014, 01:35 PM   #40
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Initially, there was confusion I've the tank size caused by the difference in Imperial and US Gallons. I thought it had been confirmed that the US cars did indeed have the same size tank as ROW cars, they just can't electively activate the Rex?
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      08-23-2014, 02:16 PM   #41
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Initially, there was confusion I've the tank size caused by the difference in Imperial and US Gallons. I thought it had been confirmed that the US cars did indeed have the same size tank as ROW cars, they just can't electively activate the Rex?
Back in April I stated a thread regarding the 1.9 gal tank in the USA market rex. The moderator went on to post information from the BMW NA training material that detailed this issue among others.

http://bmwi.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=976554

I am mystified how the confusion persists to this date, especially by those that were to receive the training directly.
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      08-23-2014, 02:16 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Initially, there was confusion I've the tank size caused by the difference in Imperial and US Gallons. I thought it had been confirmed that the US cars did indeed have the same size tank as ROW cars, they just can't electively activate the Rex?
this is correct on both accounts. Same fuel tank size they are just listed in imperial and US gallons and the US i01's cannot have the REX selectively activated
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      08-23-2014, 02:20 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by GeorgeJ. View Post
Not sure what BMW NA is doing to train their 'Genius's" but it seems not much.

If I "have a question about what type of oil to put in your 3 Series? Or a question on how to pair your new phone to your BMW? How about fuel mileage on our new Diesel models? Kevin is your go-to expert who will be able to assist you on all of your "Ultimate Driving Machine" needs! "
I see you discovered the internet, congradulations!

no need to bring hate into here, let's all be adults
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      08-23-2014, 03:23 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Kevin_Genius@BMWMtLaurel View Post
I see you discovered the internet, congradulations!

no need to bring hate into here, let's all be adults

Hi Kevin, Telling me to be an adult here after starting with a sarcastic remark and then saying no need to bring hate into here is not raising the discourse here. fyi it is spelled congratulations (also not raising the level of the discourse but i could not resist).

I am guessing you have gotten that magic 2.4 usa gal = 1.9 imp gal (1.998 imp gal actually) so stuck in your mind you can't get beyond it to see that the USA i3 rex has a 1.9 usa gallon tank.

Yes, previous post was a bit snarky but trying to get you to delve further. Study up buddy before going online as a employee of a BMW dealer and disseminating incorrect information. Seriously, you are less than a hundred miles from BMW headquarters.

Please, look at the BMW NA web site. It states 1.9 gallons (that would be US gallons). Look at the UK site and it indicates 9 liters or 2 gallons (that would be imperial gallons, and look again at the conversion above).

Or read a bit from Tom Moloughney's web site. He is a well respected and very thorough blogger, owner, and researcher on the i3.

http://bmwi3.blogspot.com/2014/04/mo...uncovered.html

or this one:

http://bmwi3.blogspot.com/search?upd...&by-date=false

I'll quote (copy from it) a posting back in June

5) How did BMW make its decisions about the of the i3’s engine and gas tank?

The i3 was not initially designed to have a range-extender. BMW added the feature after the car was more than a year into development. Perhaps that had something to do with what size motor they could fit, but that is just an educated guess.

The size of the gas tank is another thing entirely. In the United States, the i3 REx has a 1.9-gallon tank, and the European version uses a 2.4-gallon tank. The 1.9-gallon tank for the US was announced only weeks before the i3 launch. The reason for the reduced size is probably tied to the BEVx designation that BMW clearly wanted the car to attain. BMW has not confirmed the reason for the reduced tank size.

One of the qualifications of the BEVx certification is the vehicle’s all-electric range must be greater than its gasoline range. Again, this is speculation, but if the i3’s electric range was certified by CARB at lower than BMW expected, that would explain the need to reduce the range when running on gasoline.
Personally, this isn’t an issue for me. I’ll be using the range-extender only on those rare days when my electric range is just slightly insufficient. It’s a good backup strategy, and allows me to not even think about those times when I’m pushing the limit of the car’s range."
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Last edited by GeorgeJ.; 08-23-2014 at 03:47 PM..
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