[nicknaz]

Hi all,

Thinking about an i3 to replace a 335 (having a 335 and M3 at the same time feels duplicative) and am trying to figure out the i3 BEV range for a 65mph freeway drive with the AC on and set to 72 F, in a 50-90F ambient temperature SoCal climate

I've read elsewhere that that range in these conditions is about 60-70 miles, and would appreciate some real world experiences.

I sometimes have to do an 85 mile freeway drive and it doesn't look like the i3 BEV can do this

Thanks!

[jadnashuanh]

There are some fairly long grades in SoCal, so, given that, and the speeds on the freeways, you probably could not expect 80-miles especially if you've got the a/c cranking. You do have the advantage of lots more CCS units in the area, and more coming, so a quick top off could easily let you do that if you're willing to stop for say a cup of coffee and to check your messages. But, people have gotten over 100-miles. Throw in the rare time when it's actually cold outside, and that takes a bite out of range. If you wanted an i3, you'd probably be better off with the Rex version. All of my use on the i3 is local, and rarely more than a 40-mile round-trip. If I have to go much further, I generally take my ICE, but that doesn't actually happen often.

The community of i3 users are averaging around 4 miles/Kw. The i3's usable battery capacity is somewhere between 18-19Kw. I have seen trips where I've gotten nearly 6 miles/Kw, and some get better if they really try, but I don't really try.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

There are some fairly long grades in SoCal, so, given that, and the speeds on the freeways, you probably could not expect 80-miles especially if you've got the a/c cranking. You do have the advantage of lots more CCS units in the area, and more coming, so a quick top off could easily let you do that if you're willing to stop for say a cup of coffee and to check your messages. But, people have gotten over 100-miles. Throw in the rare time when it's actually cold outside, and that takes a bite out of range. If you wanted an i3, you'd probably be better off with the Rex version. All of my use on the i3 is local, and rarely more than a 40-mile round-trip. If I have to go much further, I generally take my ICE, but that doesn't actually happen often.

The community of i3 users are averaging around 4 miles/Kw. The i3's usable battery capacity is somewhere between 18-19Kw. I have seen trips where I've gotten nearly 6 miles/Kw, and some get better if they really try, but I don't really try.

Yea probably a Rex is the best option for you.
It may also help your resale as well.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

There are some fairly long grades in SoCal, so, given that, and the speeds on the freeways, you probably could not expect 80-miles especially if you've got the a/c cranking. You do have the advantage of lots more CCS units in the area, and more coming, so a quick top off could easily let you do that if you're willing to stop for say a cup of coffee and to check your messages. But, people have gotten over 100-miles. Throw in the rare time when it's actually cold outside, and that takes a bite out of range. If you wanted an i3, you'd probably be better off with the Rex version. All of my use on the i3 is local, and rarely more than a 40-mile round-trip. If I have to go much further, I generally take my ICE, but that doesn't actually happen often.

The community of i3 users are averaging around 4 miles/Kw. The i3's usable battery capacity is somewhere between 18-19Kw. I have seen trips where I've gotten nearly 6 miles/Kw, and some get better if they really try, but I don't really try.

Great info thanks. I love the idea of a BEV though, and eliminating the maintenance and complexity that comes with the ICE.

From some reviews I've read it sounds like when the engine is running and the battery is depleted the i3 can't really sustain 40 mph. Any truth to that?

It will be interesting to see how things evolve next year. If that Chevy Bolt really does come in at $30k and 250 mile range and small SUV body size, it is going to be very tough to ignore.

[jadnashuanh]

The REx's output is 34Hp. Think about that. When was the last time you drove a car with 34Hp? It can make enough electricity to keep the car cruising at speed unless you are accelerating, or trying to also climb a long grade, then, the SOC will begin to drop. Depending on what is happening, it may not be able to produce enough excess electricity to recharge the batteries much, if any. The REx output is variable, partly to preserve gas, and partly to keep the noise down...it only will go to max output when your speeds exceed about 56mph, if I remember correctly. The issue the US customers have is that the SOC is already quite low when you can enable the REx, so there is little cushion. In the rest of the world where the i3 is sold, you can manually turn the REx on once the SOC drops to <75%. That still doesn't mean that you can run the thing out of gasoline and just keep driving - you WILL deplete the battery eventually...eventually either version of the i3 will go into protection mode and begin to reduce first creature comforts, then maximum current for the motor. It's just that it is much easier to find a gas station than an EVSE or a CCS unit.

I knew my use patterns, kept my ICE, and specifically bought the BEV to avoid the small, but real extra maintenance issues with the REx, not counting the extra cost to purchase. Literally, my typical trip is less than 15-miles. Some feel the i3's seats and space are fine for a longer trip (and they may be used to a smaller vehicle), but I find that even if I could take my i3 further than one battery charge, I would not. So, the BEV was the right choice for me. Not everyone car afford to keep a second vehicle for longer trips, or wants to. IMHO, the right tool for the job.

Regarding the suspension...I have not run the numbers, but I think that you'll find that the GVW of the vehicle verses the dry weight will show a fairly big percentage of the dry weight can vary because of the load. To keep the car from being dangerous under a maximum load, it needs certain spring rates. While I've not had occasion to do it, try driving solo, then with the maximum weight over the same roads...you should still find the vehicle's handling safe, and I also believe you may like the ride. By no means suggesting to load the vehicle up, but the combination of a light chassis and a significant load capacity means a significant change in the ratio of vehicle:load.

Take a much heavier car with the same load capacity, the percentage of change is likely MUCH smaller, and you can dial in your sweet spot with more precision. Progressive rate springs can only get you so far. They do specify different springs between the BEV and the REx to account for the constant extra load in the REx verses the BEV, so they did take that into consideration. The car rides as it was designed. Again, something you either like or don't. Something that should have been determined before you committed to signing on the bottom line.

Trying to compare it to a vehicle that may weight an extra 1000# with a similar load capacity is like apples - oranges.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Hi all,

Thinking about an i3 to replace a 335 (having a 335 and M3 at the same time feels duplicative) and am trying to figure out the i3 BEV range for a 65mph freeway drive with the AC on and set to 72 F, in a 50-90F ambient temperature SoCal climate

I've read elsewhere that that range in these conditions is about 60-70 miles, and would appreciate some real world experiences.

I start out with full charge in the morning in my i3-REX, and it usually projects 72 miles in "comfort", 78 in "Eco Pro", and 84 in "Eco Pro +". That's just the car guessing.
In reality, the longest I've gone on electric charge before REX kicks in is ~65 highway miles. Actual vs. projected mileage drops a lot once you start going over >55mph. Add AC, or headlights, or heater, or much of anything, and the real world range drops further (even if GOM doesn't warn you).

You may go a bit longer in BEV (+10% due to lower weight?), but 60-70 mile commute would leave zero margin for errors, or unplanned detours. It's REX or gamble.

Even with REX (+55 more miles), I don't dare to take i3 out for round trips longer than 110 miles (sure-bet 60 electric + 50 gas miles). That's a touch conservative, and I could code REX to kick-in early, and refuel with gas when battery charge is not so critical, but why bother with the hassle?

M3 is a FAR superior mid/long-distance cruiser anyway!

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I sometimes have to do an 85 mile freeway drive and it doesn't look like the i3 BEV can do this

Not a chance.
Well, not unless it's all downhill...

a
P.S.: M3 + i3 make for a great 2 car garage!

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Hi all,

Thinking about an i3 to replace a 335 (having a 335 and M3 at the same time feels duplicative) and am trying to figure out the i3 BEV range for a 65mph freeway drive with the AC on and set to 72 F, in a 50-90F ambient temperature SoCal climate

I've read elsewhere that that range in these conditions is about 60-70 miles, and would appreciate some real world experiences.

I sometimes have to do an 85 mile freeway drive and it doesn't look like the i3 BEV can do this

Thanks!

On my i3 w/Rex (which is less efficient) I have gotten as much as 80 miles in highways, but not going consistently at high speed. At 65 mph I am pretty comfortable that in warm weather right now with preconditioning I am getting a solid 70 miles of range.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

The REx's output is 34Hp. Think about that. When was the last time you drove a car with 34Hp?

That's probably not a relevant comparison, as the 2-cylinder REX engine does not drive the car. It's not a car engine. Merely an electricity generating mini-powerplant.

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

[...]Depending on what is happening, it may not be able to produce enough excess electricity to recharge the batteries much, if any.

The REX engine will generate electricity (kicks in by default with 6% usable battery capacity remaining, but can be coded to another threshold) and will recharge the batteries when it runs. However, it is possible to drive in a way that consumes more electricity than REX can generate.

BTDT. In that case, the maximum speed will drop at first to 75 mph, then to 56 mph. I've experienced both. I've also heard second hand that the speed may drop even lower if you are going uphill with AC at max blast, but haven't experienced that myself yet.

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

The REx output is variable, partly to preserve gas, and partly to keep the noise down...it only will go to max output when your speeds exceed about 56mph, if I remember correctly.

Is that true?
This is the first I'm hearing about variable charging rate from REX. Intuitively, it doesn't make much sense as the 6% battery threshold does not leave much room for variability!

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

I knew my use patterns, kept my ICE, and specifically bought the BEV to avoid the small, but real extra maintenance issues with the REx, not counting the extra cost to purchase. Literally, my typical trip is less than 15-miles. Some feel the i3's seats and space are fine for a longer trip (and they may be used to a smaller vehicle), but I find that even if I could take my i3 further than one battery charge, I would not. So, the BEV was the right choice for me. Not everyone car afford to keep a second vehicle for longer trips, or wants to. IMHO, the right tool for the job.

Agree completely.
I also find that i3 (REX in my case) is a perfect 2nd/3rd car.
I would not recommend it as the one and only car if you have kids or lead an active lifestyle that produces unpredictable commute paths.

While it is possible to get the BEV recharged at some target destinations, or refuel REX every 60 miles, both present additional planning challenges that most busy people may not welcome. However, as a 2nd/3rd car, it works out really well.

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

Regarding the suspension..[...] The car rides as it was designed. Again, something you either like or don't. Something that should have been determined before you committed to signing on the bottom line.

All true.
But if there was one thing I would want improved in the car the most (and I have more than one gripe), it's the floaty suspension. i3 has by far the least performance-oriented suspension of any BMW I ever owned or test drove. I have driven rental econo-boxes that handled better. I would have upgraded the suspension already has it not been "her" lease-mobile.

Weight transfer during cornering - slow and non-linear. The suspension just never settles during lateral loads, and keeps sagging further and further.
Cornering and directional stability - borderline shitty.

Again, as a 2nd/3rd daily commuter car that drives like a small mini-van, i3 will do.
As the one and only fun car - sorry, I know BMW can do better!

a

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by afadeev

All true.
But if there was one thing I would want improved in the car the most (and I have more than one gripe), it's the floaty suspension. i3 has by far the least performance-oriented suspension of any BMW I ever owned or test drove. I have driven rental econo-boxes that handled better. I would have upgraded the suspension already has it not been "her" lease-mobile.

Weight transfer during cornering - slow and non-linear. The suspension just never settles during lateral loads, and keeps sagging further and further.
Cornering and directional stability - borderline shitty.

Again, as a 2nd/3rd daily commuter car that drives like a small mini-van, i3 will do.
As the one and only fun car - sorry, I know BMW can do better!

a

I have gotten into outright war at other forums for stating that the suspension on the i3 is just downright bad. I would add that it is bouncy and jittery in all the wrong ways, yet others insist on calling it "sporty." I don't think a car like the i3 is designed to be sporty, and as is the suspension performs worse than American cars (which is saying something).

[-c-]

Originally Posted by Epirali

I have gotten into outright war at other forums for stating that the suspension on the i3 is just downright bad. I would add that it is bouncy and jittery in all the wrong ways, yet others insist on calling it "sporty." I don't think a car like the i3 is designed to be sporty, and as is the suspension performs worse than American cars (which is saying something).

Do you think a lot of it is contributed to it not having a anti sway bar??? Just curious

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by -c-

Do you think a lot of it is contributed to it not having a anti sway bar??? Just curious

I am by NO MEANS an expert on design of suspensions, but from experience it seems to be because they couldn't decide whether to make it "sporty" which is pointless at that weight, or tune it for comfort. You can see the same thing in the in overactive steering and accelerator.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by Epirali

I am by NO MEANS an expert on design of suspensions, but from experience it seems to be because they couldn't decide whether to make it "sporty" which is pointless at that weight, or tune it for comfort. You can see the same thing in the in overactive steering and accelerator.

I'm curious if an anti sway bar could be fitted....I know their was the same situation on the fiero way back when.... Since they swapped a front engine geometry to the rear the front of the car had a sway bar but the rear did not. Since then the aftermarket made rear sway bars for the car to be retrofitted and it did wonders for the handling.

Don't know if it's possible with the funky geometry in their but it be cool to see if it's possible.

But yea I know what you mean as are Mini Countryman which is similar in height and length handles and feels so very much more planted though very rough.

[jadnashuanh]

If your battery level gets critical, the only electricity left is that coming from the REx, and that is only 34Hp at full throttle less conversion losses. Climbing a long grade at speed means even with the REx at full output, eventually, your battery will effectively be depleted (at least as far as BMW will let it go), then, it limits your forward motion to whatever the REx's generator can produce...thus, 34Hp of motive power. This is why the car slows down after first turning off the climate control to help preserve capacity. Certainly, if you slow down, the REx generally will have an excess capacity and start to bring the battery level back up some...but, once your battery is 'empty', it's empty, and anything that goes in is all that can come out.

The REx does not run at full tilt when, say idling (where it would normally shut off), even if the battery is really low...it adjusts to the load which generally, relates to how fast you are driving. This keeps the noise in the cabin more manageable since the road noises help mask the motor noises and helps to extend the range. Running at full tilt sucks fuel, and kind of silly if it's not needed.

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

If your battery level gets critical, the only electricity left is that coming from the REx, and that is only 34Hp at full throttle less conversion losses. Climbing a long grade at speed means even with the REx at full output, eventually, your battery will effectively be depleted (at least as far as BMW will let it go), then, it limits your forward motion to whatever the REx's generator can produce...thus, 34Hp of motive power. This is why the car slows down after first turning off the climate control to help preserve capacity. Certainly, if you slow down, the REx generally will have an excess capacity and start to bring the battery level back up some...but, once your battery is 'empty', it's empty, and anything that goes in is all that can come out.

The REx does not run at full tilt when, say idling (where it would normally shut off), even if the battery is really low...it adjusts to the load which generally, relates to how fast you are driving. This keeps the noise in the cabin more manageable since the road noises help mask the motor noises and helps to extend the range. Running at full tilt sucks fuel, and kind of silly if it's not needed.

Of course you can always code the car and enable the hold state of charge and make sure you have enough battery left before Rex kicks in...

[jadnashuanh]

Originally Posted by Epirali

Of course you can always code the car and enable the hold state of charge and make sure you have enough battery left before Rex kicks in...

That only works if you don't run out of fuel...then, you're the equivalent to a BEV carting around an extra 350#. IOW, there is no free lunch. The REx can maintain under many circumstances, but not all, and if those uses exhaust your fuel, either for the REx or from the batteries...things start to fall apart, just like on an ICE when you run out of fuel. At least the REx warns you with a more accurate display...an ICE may turn on a light, but that can be quite conservative...you get a more graceful degradation on the REx than an ICE and will maintain your power steering and brakes while pulling to the side of the road to recover.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

That only works if you don't run out of fuel...then, you're the equivalent to a BEV carting around an extra 350#. IOW, there is no free lunch. The REx can maintain under many circumstances

If you are planning to take your REX on longer commutes that may challenge maximum range limits (130+ miles), definitely code the engine to kick-in and maintain battery charge much sooner than US default 6%. Anything north of 50% percent will allow you to run out of gas while you still have plenty of battery charge left to leisurely look for a gas station to refill the gas tank.

Definitely beats looking for gas with an near-empty battery, and only being able to refill 1/2 of the gas tank ...
a

[jadnashuanh]

The USA is huge. I lived in El Paso, TX for awhile way back when, and going east out of there, it was easily over 100-miles to the next town, and hit that late, and it may not have anything open. This is one reason why the i3 is only viable in some areas unless you intend to use it as (I think, anyways) as designed...a local car. Even with the REx and a full charge, you may not make it to the next open facility to refuel or recharge. Living in the megalopolis of the east coast of the USA, you'd never experience that.

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

The USA is huge. I lived in El Paso, TX for awhile way back when, and going east out of there, it was easily over 100-miles to the next town, and hit that late, and it may not have anything open. This is one reason why the i3 is only viable in some areas unless you intend to use it as (I think, anyways) as designed...a local car. Even with the REx and a full charge, you may not make it to the next open facility to refuel or recharge. Living in the megalopolis of the east coast of the USA, you'd never experience that.

Absolutely true. But I have to say when I was driving across the country in a tiny 2 seater convertible with a range of only 200 miles per tank I never really had many cases where there wasn't a gas station within 100 miles of each other on major roads.

Yes, still not highly viable with Rex, but with full charge+Rex in between stops I would have had absolutely no issue.

[jadnashuanh]

Originally Posted by Epirali

Yes, still not highly viable with Rex, but with full charge+Rex in between stops I would have had absolutely no issue.

You're missing the point that while you MIGHT find a gas station, you would be unlikely to find an EVSE or a CCS unit, so you're limited to the range you could go while the REx was running once you'd depleted the batteries if you just try to continue on. Personally, stopping every 50-60 miles to refill the fuel tank would get old quickly...that's often less than an hour. Any here's hoping that the station you expected to use was open when you got there!

Yes, people do this. IF they're lucky, they can find an EVSE or CCS unit where they need one, but that is not the norm. Otherwise, to refill the batteries, you're looking at 3-4 hours or longer, depending on the SOC and the EVSE you can hook up to. That makes forward progress pretty dismal.

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

You're missing the point that while you MIGHT find a gas station, you would be unlikely to find an EVSE or a CCS unit, so you're limited to the range you could go while the REx was running once you'd depleted the batteries if you just try to continue on. Personally, stopping every 50-60 miles to refill the fuel tank would get old quickly...that's often less than an hour. Any here's hoping that the station you expected to use was open when you got there!

Yes, people do this. IF they're lucky, they can find an EVSE or CCS unit where they need one, but that is not the norm. Otherwise, to refill the batteries, you're looking at 3-4 hours or longer, depending on the SOC and the EVSE you can hook up to. That makes forward progress pretty dismal.

I really am not missing your point, that is why I started with "Absolutely true!"

I was just saying there are gas stations closer than 100 miles at a time. I just look at Rex as a way to use up all the battery.

[MC 357]

I have an I3 BEV and live in socal like you. I drive from Glendale to Chino for work, its 50 miles, 95% highway, in the morning i get there with 20 to 30 miles left, morning drive is sometimes with ac sometimes not, going 75-80mph. On the way home doing the same speed but with the AC on full blast the whole time i make it home with 15 to 20 miles left. This is all with eco-pro
The BEV wont get 85 miles on highway and lets not kid ourselves no one on this forum is gonna drive 65mph on the freeway. The most the BEV will get on highway is 70 miles with no ac, unless you run into traffic!

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by afadeev

P.S.: M3 + i3 make for a great 2 car garage!

Especially if those super cheap i3 leases are still around when the 335 lease is up

Thanks everyone for the info. Looks like I'd have to keep the i3 as a local runabout only.

Too bad, since that 85 mile round trip drive is expensed at the usual ~$0.55 / mile. Would have a lot more $ in my pocket if I could make that drive in an i3 instead of an M3 (which does get 33mpg on the highway along this route.. far better than the window sticker 24mpg claim... the road tester must have been hammering on the car)