[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Why do you think it’s not ready?

@AlexFL, the current battery technology reached the limit. Solid state batteries are future.

[spool twice]

but then why couldn't you apply the same concept and lease an iX M60 and see what could change in the future?

[Mavus]

max tow and range on these?

how about cold weather range impact for ski trips?

[nosnoop]

Originally Posted by KoenG

What do you mean!? What's your concept of M?

Same as other M badges on other "M Performance" models.

[nosnoop]

Originally Posted by Mavus

max tow and range on these?

Initial estimates of EPA range is about 280 miles, 14% less then M50.

Tow ratings for the M50 was 2,500 kg, I would guess M60 should be similar.

how about cold weather range impact for ski trips?

Bjorn has done a range testing of the M50 under mild winter condition.

[sor]

Originally Posted by slampert

I'm concerned about the loss of range as well. 15% is not trivial.

But given that the various tradeoffs seem to balance, I can see that for me, the iX50 vs M60 purchase decision is going to come down to availability...!

Otherwise the M60 seems like the obvious choice.

I wonder about that. It seems possible that the range difference is down to wheels or just the way the test utilizes the max available power.

I wouldn't be too surprised if the 50 and 60 get very similar range if driven identically with the same wheels and tires. But the 60 is rated for less because it sucks more juice when you stomp on it or has stickier/wider tires.

The more fuel efficient tires are usually pretty narrow.

[Poiseuille]

Originally Posted by Al Pin　

Race one at a red light and then you might.

red light? I have a better idea: six hours at an actual race track, car that completes the most laps in that time wins the other guy's car. seems fair, doesn't it? I'd use my six year old F82 (or Poiseuille Jr's GTi or whatever), Elkhart Lake isn't far from you is it? or LRP if you prefer shorter tracks. only rule: you get as many pitstops as you like but no changing to a different car like in Formula E.

[nosnoop]

Originally Posted by Poiseuille

red light? I have a better idea: six hours at an actual race track, car that completes the most laps in that time wins the other guy's car. seems fair, doesn't it?

LOL, no, it is not a better idea.
Any EV owner can do a launch from the red light, but I don't any car owner or any readers in this forum would take up your "race" for 6 hours!

[Poiseuille]

Originally Posted by nosnoop

LOL, no, it is not a better idea.
Any EV owner can do a launch from the red light, but I don't any car owner or any readers in this forum would take up your "race" for 6 hours!

I think you'd be surprised at who reads this forum, and that they might not consider drag racing from red lights on public roads to be actual racing. not that we don't all do it, it's just not on the same plane. at all.
regarding the 'six hour' duration, I don't consider that a big deal. in fact Poiseuille Jr's season kicks off April 2nd and 3rd at Pittsburgh with two 6hr races in two days.
the point of multi laps on a closed circuit is this: your EV can beat my ICE in the (typical) 1/8 mile drag race, I have no doubt. but how many times, in a row, can it do that? twice? without taking a nap? F82, and most ICE powered cars, can do it all day. fact is, you'll be in limp mode before I get the brakes up to temp.

[PhilD]

Originally Posted by Poiseuille

I think you'd be surprised at who reads this forum, and that they might not consider drag racing from red lights on public roads to be actual racing. not that we don't all do it, it's just not on the same plane. at all.
regarding the 'six hour' duration, I don't consider that a big deal. in fact Poiseuille Jr's season kicks off April 2nd and 3rd at Pittsburgh with two 6hr races in two days.
the point of multi laps on a closed circuit is this: your EV can beat my ICE in the (typical) 1/8 mile drag race, I have no doubt. but how many times, in a row, can it do that? twice? without taking a nap? F82, and most ICE powered cars, can do it all day. fact is, you'll be in limp mode before I get the brakes up to temp.

Crap, you'd better tell Formula 1 that their 90 minute races aren't 'proper racing'. While you're at it, you should get BMW to go and take the M badges off the cars of all owners that never take their cars on track days.

The iX M60 is as much of an 'M' car as the X5 M or the X6 M. It's just a trim level for the highest performing variant of a model line. It doesn't mean it's only reserved for drag racing or track racing. It's just a letter.

[Poiseuille]

Originally Posted by PhilD

Crap, you'd better tell Formula 1 that their 90 minute races aren't 'proper racing'. While you're at it, you should get BMW to go and take the M badges off the cars of all owners that never take their cars on track days.

The iX M60 is as much of an 'M' car as the X5 M or the X6 M. It's just a trim level for the highest performing variant of a model line. It doesn't mean it's only reserved for drag racing or track racing. It's just a letter.

I'm sure you're right. In fact, I'm sure BMW are working even as we type on the badging for the (no doubt) soon to be announced X7M'Competition'.

[Hi]

Originally Posted by sor

I wonder about that. It seems possible that the range difference is down to wheels or just the way the test utilizes the max available power.

I wouldn't be too surprised if the 50 and 60 get very similar range if driven identically with the same wheels and tires. But the 60 is rated for less because it sucks more juice when you stomp on it or has stickier/wider tires.

The more fuel efficient tires are usually pretty narrow.

The 21" wheels for 50 and 60 use the same tire size, 255/50R21 109H. Between 50 and M60 the weights are 5,659 and 5,769 respectively. Not sure where the extra 110lbs comes from, but that may explain *some* of the 25 mile range difference.

I'm also curious to know the range impact on the M60 with different wheel sey up. If the 22" wheels (1LB and 1LD) are more efficient on the 50, the m60 should have a longer range as well with 22". There are no indications that the brakes calipers or discs are larger on M60. It would be interesting to know the range with 20" wheels, assuming they fit.

[nosnoop]

Originally Posted by Hi

I'm also curious to know the range impact on the M60 with different wheel sey up. If the 22" wheels (1LB and 1LD) are more efficient on the 50, the m60 should have a longer range as well with 22". There are no indications that the brakes calipers or discs are larger on M60. It would be interesting to know the range with 20" wheels, assuming they fit.

The German site has the range in the configurator. There is basically no difference between 21" and 22" wheels for M60. The 21" wheels has 561km WLTP range, while 22" wheels have 557km WLTP range (1020, 1021 and 1023 Perf). The only one which causes significant drop in range was 22" M 1023 Sport when range dropped to 516km WLTP (7.4% drop).

No 20" available for the M60.

[sor]

Originally Posted by Hi

The 21" wheels for 50 and 60 use the same tire size, 255/50R21 109H. Between 50 and M60 the weights are 5,659 and 5,769 respectively. Not sure where the extra 110lbs comes from, but that may explain *some* of the 25 mile range difference.

I'm also curious to know the range impact on the M60 with different wheel sey up. If the 22" wheels (1LB and 1LD) are more efficient on the 50, the m60 should have a longer range as well with 22". There are no indications that the brakes calipers or discs are larger on M60. It would be interesting to know the range with 20" wheels, assuming they fit.

Yeah, I'll admit I haven't done a deep dive spec for spec.

I wonder if weight difference could partially be to difference in standard options as well. In which case maybe you're going to lose range with a specific 50 build that you don't necessarily realize.

It's complicated to say the least 280 EPA is pretty good though considering most non-Teslas meet or exceed their EPA.
My e-tron is 222 miles EPA and I've driven 224 in one go with 23 miles left.

[Pictor]

Originally Posted by Mavus

max tow and range on these?

You'll get tow ratings but good luck with figuring out tow range on an EV. EV's have all the torque needed for towing but lack the energy density need for towing long distance. I wouldn't plan on anything other than short trips around town with any substantial weight (and drag) being towed. You're talking about cars where the wheels matter in range estimates now you want to estimate the range for a small 4x6 trailer? A 21' wakeboard boat? A box trailer? Or just a small trailer with two jet-skis?

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by PhilD

Crap, you'd better tell Formula 1 that their 90 minute races aren't 'proper racing'. While you're at it, you should get BMW to go and take the M badges off the cars of all owners that never take their cars on track days.

The iX M60 is as much of an 'M' car as the X5 M or the X6 M. It's just a trim level for the highest performing variant of a model line. It doesn't mean it's only reserved for drag racing or track racing. It's just a letter.

LOL listen guy, unless your family car can survive a 6 hour endurance race it’s not worthy of muh badge. And don’t you dare spec the massage seats.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have some some gardening to get to. If I could just find my ice cream scoop.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by Pictor

You'll get tow ratings but good luck with figuring out tow range on an EV. EV's have all the torque needed for towing but lack the energy density need for towing long distance. I wouldn't plan on anything other than short trips around town with any substantial weight (and drag) being towed. You're talking about cars where the wheels matter in range estimates now you want to estimate the range for a small 4x6 trailer? A 21' wakeboard boat? A box trailer? Or just a small trailer with two jet-skis?

kinda what I was thinking but just trying to figure out if this can be a swiss army knife vehicle at that price or not when we go on fam vaca. it is 24ft boat over ~6-7hr 250-300mi trip.

[PhilD]

Originally Posted by Mavus

kinda what I was thinking but just trying to figure out if this can be a swiss army knife vehicle at that price or not when we go on fam vaca. it is 24ft boat over ~6-7hr 250-300mi trip.

There was a recent CarWow video where they tested the effects of different things like roofboxes and a caravan on the range of an EV. It’s not an iX but it could give you an idea. You’d probably be looking at having to stop and fast charge at least once, if not twice. At worst, I suspect you’d be looking at two 45 minute stops. Have a look at A Better Route Planner to try to gauge what it might be like for the trips you’d be interested in. You can tweak usage numbers in advanced settings. It’s a free site. Or maybe rent a boat at your holiday location instead!

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by Mavus

kinda what I was thinking but just trying to figure out if this can be a swiss army knife vehicle at that price or not when we go on fam vaca. it is 24ft boat over ~6-7hr 250-300mi trip.

As a general rule, you can assume you'll lose half your normal range if you tow anything. If at half the normal range the drive becomes too cumbersome for you, then an EV is not the right car for you to tow with right now. Your specific tow might do better than half range, especially if you drive a little slower than normal while towing, but there is no easy way to estimate it ahead of time so i would assume this as a starting point.

As charging speeds improve over time, this will be better handled, but it definitely is a problem at the moment in even the fastest charging EVs assuming that the road you take actually has the charging points you would need. Right now, EVs are near my limit in usage for longer trips when I consider actual road trips I am likely to do over the next few years (max 12-15 hour drives in a day). They are great for daily use, decent for a 5-6 hour trip and just good enough for my potential longer trips. Maybe in a decade from now, it will be easy to go super long distances while towing, but not today. I'd say it is at least two generations of cars away from happening if we are lucky.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by ggalanis

As a general rule, you can assume you'll lose half your normal range if you tow anything. If at half the normal range the drive becomes too cumbersome for you, then an EV is not the right car for you to tow with right now. Your specific tow might do better than half range, especially if you drive a little slower than normal while towing, but there is no easy way to estimate it ahead of time so i would assume this as a starting point.

As charging speeds improve over time, this will be better handled, but it definitely is a problem at the moment in even the fastest charging EVs assuming that the road you take actually has the charging points you would need. Right now, EVs are near my limit in usage for longer trips when I consider actual road trips I am likely to do over the next few years (max 12-15 hour drives in a day). They are great for daily use, decent for a 5-6 hour trip and just good enough for my potential longer trips. Maybe in a decade from now, it will be easy to go super long distances white towing, but not today. I'd say it is at least two generations of cars away from happening if we are lucky.

good summary of the current capabilities

[GOLFFRR]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Really, really want one of these. Might flip the G82 in a year or two to do that.

how is the charging situation up there in the city? I would imagine its pretty good there?

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by GOLFFRR

how is the charging situation up there in the city? I would imagine its pretty good there?

Oh man I’m the wrong guy to ask, always charge at home