[3s-a-charm]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Tesla is overrated. They haven't made a f-ng dime in profit and allow live off the backs of taxpayers so rich people can flout their green credientials buying their product.

So misinformed...

[3s-a-charm]

Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp

Yep. Looks are why BMW's electric cars do not sell well. Make the electric car look like the gas version and lose the ugly aesthetics and more people will buy BMW electric cars. Plain and simple.

Exactly! If BMW (and other car makers) got over their need to make cars "weird-looking" just because they are electric vs gas, they would sell a lot more. Even Nissan got this kind of right with the Leaf. Tesla has been successful because they look "normal" and go like a bat out of hell - plus they have a good intention behind them (they welcome competition rather than shutting it out).

Look, it worked. I'm a convert. Love Tesla - used to love BMW. Never thought I would go elsewhere. I'm even getting hooked on Formula E and giving up on F1. Who knew?!

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by 3s-a-charm

So misinformed...

He's right about the not making a dime part. Tesla's sales have gone up and their losses have been growing at at a similar rate.

The car industry in general is a tough business. Electric car market segment makes it even tougher.



https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/tsla/financials?ltr=1

[bclemans]

I hope BMW gets its act together.

Germany's recent mandate of all NEW cars to be emission free by 2030,
so everyone and his dog in Germany is getting ready to push out electric cars.
As a result, Audi/Porsche (VW) and Mercedes are pledging more electric cars release (and sooner too) than BMW.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-official-says

Seems like they are buying time (or kidding themselves) by releasing more hybrids by the day.

Apple said they are "brave" to ditch the headphone jack on the iPhone 7. Likewise, BMW has to be "brave" to ditch the hybrid strategy for the i-brand NOW and go all electric.

BMW also have to run catchup (together with every other car manufacturer) on autonomous driving too.

Mandate set. Stop wasting time with hybrids, hydrogen and diesel.

[3s-a-charm]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

He's right about the not making a dime part. Tesla's sales have gone up and their losses have been growing at at a similar rate.

The car industry in general is a tough business. Electric car market segment makes it even tougher.



https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/tsla/financials?ltr=1

They have been growing and investing in infrastructure. There is more than one way to look at financials. It's a company that if it works - will put Apple to shame. But there are only a small number of people that believe this. The challenging thought is that Tesla isn't even an automobile company...

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by 3s-a-charm

They have been growing and investing in infrastructure. There is more than one way to look at financials. It's a company that if it works - will put Apple to shame. But there are only a small number of people that believe this. The challenging thought is that Tesla isn't even an automobile company...

without those ridiculous tax credits they would have been dead and buried.

Germany is doing the same. Tax credits for everyone drinking the "green energy" kool aid

[firedown31]

Originally Posted by deemo319

The i3 is distinctive and as with most modern cars looks better than pictures. Future cars will not look like old cars. Adjust your view of automotive aesthetics as cars overall will change more in the next decade than all of the previous century.

Sorry but even in person the i3 looks like a turd box. If that design is the future of car looks I hope teleportation arrives sooner rather than later.

[SDPLV]

It's strange, why don't they take an owner poll before coming out with some absurd radical quasi-egg mobile such as the i3?

They must have skimped on their consultants and market research before producing that. it should have remained a concept car and a quickly forgotten one at that.

BMW could've saved millions and instead invested that into a proper mid-level electric.

[SDPLV]

Originally Posted by deemo319

The i3 is distinctive and as with most modern cars looks better than pictures. Future cars will not look like old cars. Adjust your view of automotive aesthetics as cars overall will change more in the next decade than all of the previous century.

I think Steve Urkel drove an i3 back in the 90s. Thats regression...not progression.

[MSCD]

i3 is quirky, people want cool not quirky. Tesla's look cool. i8 looks cool - but hybrid... Make it full electric....

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by firedown31

Sorry but even in person the i3 looks like a turd box. If that design is the future of car looks I hope teleportation arrives sooner rather than later.

The problem is that is how most mainstream car manufacturers is trying to show with electric car designs. They believe it is "the future" so they make it as weird and standout as possible but that isn't what people want.

Most of us buys Model S because it looks "normal" and you get everything in it long mileage and performance if you choose to get that. That is what Tesla is doing right, although the Model X still looks bad, like a giant 5er GT.

Chevy, Benz, VW and BMW needs to start understanding just because electric cars could be the future, changing the way they look to a point where they are as ugly as sin is the worst thing they can do to make them "sell". That is what I don't tend to understand, why they would design them that way. There is no need for that.

i3 looks like the ugly cousin of a Scion xB or Nissan Cube and that's saying something. And this is from a car company that gave us the BMW M3 for god sakes.

[Germanauto]

I'm glad BMW is getting their butts kicked lately. With every redesign dating back to the E89 Z4 their cars have become less fun to drive and more numb. The brand's focus isn't where it needs to be. The i3 is an ugly turd, nobody wants to be caught dead driving it. The fact that BMW management gave the green light on the thing shows that Munich's priorities are out of order and some heavy drugs are probably being abused.

[GMe90]

BMW lost its mind when it signed off on the design of the i3. It looks horrendous. It's probably one of the ugliest cars on the road. Who in their right mind would think that a customer looking for the "ultimate driving machine" would be interested in that ugly p.o.s.?

[NickyC]

I'll just leave this here. We're all (tax payers) backstops for Musk's various enterprises. Must be nice.

Tesla hasn't made a single, lousy dime.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf

Are you insane? A fully loaded i3 at $30,000. Why don't BMW pay for your car payments and insurance also? How can they possible make any profit selling the i3 and 60% of the price?

It's clearly a buyers market ... Otherwise this meeting wouldn't be going ahead.

It has the style of a super mini... And as the pricing structure in the UK has planted in most people's minds, a premium super mini is about 20k point (unless you're buying something very potent).

30k is entry level coupes and sports executive saloon territory

[-c-]

Well I also think part of the reason the i3 didn't take off is more of the fact it's over 40k dollars for a hatchback design. Hatchbacks retail between 20 & 30k not 40 to 50k. Carbon fiber or not the proportion didn't help it.

Where I live their quite popular and have 4 on my block, it's refreshing design and makes a statement, seen the same shit for ever and tired of boring normal crap running around. But hey different stokes for different folks.

Funny thing is I find kids and young adults more into it rather than its target audience.

The i3 and i8 where design statements and will be redesigned here next year and will probably be made more normal, happens all the time. I have yet to ride in an interior of a car with a cooler design, it's really fresh. Yea the exterior is a love it or hate it design but I think the rear and side are great and clean modern design the front did kind of loose it for me but it overall has grown on me.

I kind of like driving cars nobody has, keeps it fresh longer, when the market is full of model 3's they will be every other car on the road and be boring in months, like eating spaghetti every night. But I'm an odd duck anyway as I like the cars that have personality,

Have owned mini coopers, z4, smart car, 135is, lotus, x5, A6's, and love driving the i3 just as much.
I was on the fence until I drove it.

It's not for everyone but still a great engineered car regardless if you like the design or not.

[matbl]

Until i3 sakes pick up?
Are they idiots? It is impractical both due to size/space and range. Sales will never pick up.
What Tesla have realized is that if you build it to look good, have enough spave to be a family hauler and have a good electric range, people will stand in line to buy one.

Bring a pure ev 5-series and x3/x5 and they will sell a lot. Another vrippled i3 or i5? Not so much...

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by Kyle B

That's an understatement.

the i3 didn't sell well because it's f'ing hideous, it's too expensive, and it's f'ing hideous. Did I mention it's hideous? Whoever signed off on that design should be taken out back and flogged.

Yes - I agree 100%. Petty or not - the reality is that almost nobody is going to spend money for a car that looks so massively, and incredibly ugly. The i3 is truly the Pontiac Aztek of the early 21st Century. I am convinced (as many of you are) that if the car was as good looking as Tesla's offerings or as many other BMW's current models - it would have sold in far greater numbers.

Even the most "logical" and objective humans still have an emotional, non-practical side to their brains. Build a car that ugly, and many people (rightly or wrongly) will not even consider whatever technical or practical merits it may otherwise have. BMW's Board better consider this reality when deciding to move forward with pure electric or not...

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Considering how the US election is looking; I'd be worried about pouring more resources into EV. Just sayin.

[antzcrashing]

But some other senior executives are unwilling to plow more resources into electric cars until i3 sales improve and there is a clearer business case for such investment, according to one of the four sources, who declined to be named because of the confidential nature of the discussions.

There is no way there are people this ignorant. The i3 is ugly and nitch grocery picker up for super hipster city greenies (which also somehow have charger access). There was no reason to ever believe it would sell in volumes.

Build a tesla model s or model 3 competitor and they will come

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf

Are you insane? A fully loaded i3 at $30,000. Why don't BMW pay for your car payments and insurance also? How can they possible make any profit selling the i3 and 60% of the price?

Then dont make it like an i3! Give it a sports car shape instead of egg shape and decent range and people will consider it more

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by SDPLV

It's strange, why don't they take an owner poll before coming out with some absurd radical quasi-egg mobile such as the i3?

They must have skimped on their consultants and market research before producing that. it should have remained a concept car and a quickly forgotten one at that.

BMW could've saved millions and instead invested that into a proper mid-level electric.

IMO the problem is that it's a city-car so it was designed with the idea that it would spend little time travelling over 100km/hr. Aerodynamics take a back seat vs utility (I. e. London Cabs) This type of car doesn't work well in the US because many people who live in our cities aren't any more likely to have a car and we believe in 1+ hour commutes.

There's also a concern about repeat business. Electric motors don't wear out. I