[M3ZING]

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I hate to say this but bmw is turning to be like bentley, they only care about luxury cars and sedans. The only proper sport cars they have are the M3/4 And The M6 but do they compete with anything from other companies? Mercedes Has The AMG GT / PORSCHE Has A 911 / Audi Has The R8 / Jaguar Has The F-Type R/ SVR / Mclaren Has The 540/570 i mean like whats stopping them from doing something like those other companies? BMW is slowly going out of sports cars market to a luxury car company and the M Gmbh is going downhill too and im saying this as a previous M4 Owner and a bmw fanboy. So no bashing here just saying what i had.

[overcoil]

Supercars might be a bad business decision. Porsche might be in a much different economic position if not for SUV's. McLaren I think is very much into offering technical services to anyone and they might even be talking to Apple.

VW and R8 and Huracán, I think there's a lot of accounting and amortization to keep these things in production and development.

Ferrari is a very unique business case.

[CaptainRacing]

I'd love to see BMW do a non hybrid M version of the i8 but there's absolutely no chance of that ever happening. Hopefully the next i8 will be more performance oriented to seriously compete against the 911, amg gt ect, instead of just being a fast piece of technology.

[yousefnjr]

I think comparing BMW to McLaren is always going to end in disappointment for you

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

Supercars might be a bad business decision.

I dont know if its a bad decision.
The supercar might not be very profitable, but on styling/image and technology it can give the other models in the range a good boost.
Look for instance at mercedes:
First they had the SLR, from which a lot of models in the range got styling features (front end). After that the SLR. Again a lot of styling, and that also featured as an EV high performance test platform (drove around the ring 1min faster than the current tesla's ). Now the AMG GT, which again sets new line in styling
Same goes for the audi R8

And on the performance front bmw could also use a boost. They're not top of their class anymore in their respective class. How different that was 20 years ago when other brands had to look up to the power bmw put in their cars. Now the competition makes more power with sometimes even smaller engines. BMW now is at their best with the diesels (compared to the competition)

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I dont know if its a bad decision.
The supercar might not be very profitable, but on styling/image and technology it can give the other models in the range a good boost.
Look for instance at mercedes:
First they had the SLR, from which a lot of models in the range got styling features (front end). After that the SLR. Again a lot of styling, and that also featured as an EV high performance test platform (drove around the ring 1min faster than the current tesla's ). Now the AMG GT, which again sets new line in styling
Same goes for the audi R8

And on the performance front bmw could also use a boost. They're not top of their class anymore in their respective class. How different that was 20 years ago when other brands had to look up to the power bmw put in their cars. Now the competition makes more power with sometimes even smaller engines. BMW now is at their best with the diesels (compared to the competition)

To expand upon my point, the SLR was done with Mclaren and I think mercedes dominated and the results had been panned until people like Jay Leno and collectors in the Middle East - ( told stories it was the only supercar that could withstand the desert heat as a daily driver ).

The BMW Mclaren corroboration that resulted in the F1 created some argue the greatest sportcar bar none. And then for BMW to built the environmental i8 - that is quite a technological range of accomplishments.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Mercedes has said it will be producing a hypercar, using modified version of current F1 engine. 1,000hp range, full carbon monocoque chassis, active-aero, five digit redline.

Similar to what Aston Martin-Red Bull Racing hypercar project.

[Nkc]

When they get their balls back.

[MikeRR]

If they would stick to the luxury market it would be one thing but actually it looks more like they are going to compete with VW.

[Efthreeoh]

BMW can't even replace the Z4 without joining up with Toyota, and you are asking for a supercar? The i3 and i8 took most of the engineering resources for the past several years. Based on sales of the i-series cars, BMW will probably not get that investment back.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

BMW can't even replace the Z4 without joining up with Toyota, and you are asking for a supercar?

Maybe thats also more an issue with wanting to maximize profit more on cost of investing in brand image.
BMW is at this moment very profitable and imho rides along on an image earned in the past. If you look at the current lineup of their high performance models, you can get faster cars for less at the competition.
So imho it may be profitable now, but in 10 or 20 years, that hard earned reputation in the 90's and early 00's will be gone and the generation at that time might think about bmw differently as how we think of it.

The i3 and i8 took most of the engineering resources for the past several years. Based on sales of the i-series cars, BMW will probably not get that investment back.

I dont know what they thought when designing the i3 but sure their vision was blurred.... The i3 had to be the large volume model of the 2 but for that it at least has to be somewhat bearable to the eye...

[Germanauto]

Aside from the M1 BMW has never really done a supercar. But they've always done proper sports cars like the M3 coupes and Z3/E84 Z4 until recent.

I agree that BMW doesn't even seem to prioritize making "pure" sports cars anymore, which I define as being small and simple coupes and convertibles. They are hell-bent on making grand tourers that drive like Mercedes and turd boxes like the i3. The closest thing they make to a "sports car" today are the 240 and M2.

[R N M]

BMW messed up by betting on the i Brand and electric cars.
If the i3 looked like a normal car or just inline with regular 3 series proportions, it would have sold much better.
The new i5 renderings looks like a Prius, they should copy Tesla instead.

They should of followed Mercedes and spent that R&D $$$ on its existing lineup.

MB now has way more offerings and is #1 in sales in US YTD.
They flooded the market with SUVs and entry level FWD sedan. Plus they have MB GT, GTS, GTR.

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

Supercars might be a bad business decision. Porsche might be in a much different economic position if not for SUV's. McLaren I think is very much into offering technical services to anyone and they might even be talking to Apple.

VW and R8 and Huracán, I think there's a lot of accounting and amortization to keep these things in production and development.

Ferrari is a very unique business case.

Ya I agree BMW is making hand over fist in the high margin numbers game of luxury cars.. if its image diminishes perhaps that may force it back to its racing roots a bit more and even crank out a "proper" supercar

[Viffermike]

Think about what kind of company BMW is compared to others it competes with:
- Priority 1 is the globalization of the brand. Priority 2 is profit margin.
- It's a relatively small, privately-held company that has no larger parent organization
- Its racing heritage is relatively small, particularly in the last 20 years and specifically within the last 10
- The only precedent that exist for a supercar is the M1, which wasn't really a BMW in the first place
- It already displays difficulty keeping up, and competing with, its competitors' products and priorities

Hate to say it, but BMW has absolutely zero reason, motivation, and pressure to produce a supercar. It's not Porsche, it's not Mercedes, it's not McLaren, it's not Audi, it's not Honda, it's not Toyota -- hell, it's not even Fiat (ergo Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, etc.).

I would equate it most closely to Jaguar, even though even it has a parent company (and it's based in India, of all places). Hear any rumors about a Jaguar supercar? Didn't think so.

Ain't gonna happen. Ever.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

Supercars might be a bad business decision. Porsche might be in a much different economic position if not for SUV's. McLaren I think is very much into offering technical services to anyone and they might even be talking to Apple.

VW and R8 and Huracán, I think there's a lot of accounting and amortization to keep these things in production and development.

Ferrari is a very unique business case.

The difference with things like the R8 is that big development $ has someplace to trickle down to so it's not all wasted on a single low volume car. Same for the $10Bn Volvo spent on the new 90 platform.

The low volume specialist have a much tougher road to hoe.

[TomHudson]

Unfortunately, the low volume specialist us what attracts us. Once the M cars get diluted enough, we are going to become bored and envious of the manufacturers that still produce these unique automobiles.

It is in BMW's financial interests to extend into the I3 and environmental friendly cars, but the enthusiast still yearns for the unique performance and driving experience that BMW provides in M cars. If that aspect of BMW gets diluted, then the customer will look elsewhere for that passion.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by MikeRR

If they would stick to the luxury market it would be one thing but actually it looks more like they are going to compete with VW.

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Maybe thats also more an issue with wanting to maximize profit more on cost of investing in brand image.

All of this is what BMW is about now, and you can see it in the cars. It's a real shame.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

BMW can't even replace the Z4 without joining up with Toyota, and you are asking for a supercar? The i3 and i8 took most of the engineering resources for the past several years. Based on sales of the i-series cars, BMW will probably not get that investment back.

The BMWi investment not only covers development of the actual cars but all the services included. The best part of the investment and why it was originally cleared for green light. Is that the BMWi programme involves many partners and institutions to re cooperate costs by selling and sharing technologies not just across the Quandt industries and there associates but as an example CFRP is also being produced and sold for the nautical and aero industries.

The development of the Z5 allows BMW and Toyota to use a combined gene pool of resources without the huge cost that a regular manufacturer would have to use. The engineering of the joint project can not be compared to other sports cars in the same price level.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

Supercars might be a bad business decision. Porsche might be in a much different economic position if not for SUV's. McLaren I think is very much into offering technical services to anyone and they might even be talking to Apple.

VW and R8 and Huracán, I think there's a lot of accounting and amortization to keep these things in production and development.

Ferrari is a very unique business case.

Supercars and hyper cars are not profitable. Especially to a company like BMW.
Manufacturers are having to deal with legislation and targets within a specific time scale and maintaining the highest profit margin per vehicle is where BMWs priorities lie out with other strategic areas of research and development.

A super car is not part of the current plan especially with emission targets being set.
Although a joint project could eventually become a possibility but again this model would feature an Electric or Plug-in drivetrain.
The gene sequencing at BMW at the moment involves filling the gaps in the luxury class with the X7,8er and 9er all which will be offered with 3 levels of plug-in Hybrid models.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The BMWi investment not only covers development of the actual cars but all the services included. The best part of the investment and why it was originally cleared for green light. Is that the BMWi programme involves many partners and institutions to re cooperate costs by selling and sharing technologies not just across the Quandt industries and there associates but as an example CFRP is also being produced and sold for the nautical and aero industries.

The development of the Z5 allows BMW and Toyota to use a combined gene pool of resources without the huge cost that a regular manufacturer would have to use. The engineering of the joint project can not be compared to other sports cars in the same price level.

So BMW has finally figured out what every other auto manufacturer has known for decades, and to which BMW just several years ago widely chastised it's competitors for, making compromised vehicles under shared platforms...

Got it. First came the revelation that FWD architecture allows for more room in the cabin and now platform sharing. Yeay!

And when BMW creates a sports car that can beat a Chevrolet Corvette at the same price point, please call me. 1-888-NOT-GOING-TO-HAPPEN.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

And when BMW creates a sports car that can beat a Chevrolet Corvette at the same price point, please call me. 1-888-NOT-GOING-TO-HAPPEN.

That has never happened in the past - has never been BMW's goal or target - why would they do it now?

In 1971, I bought a brand new Corvette for $5800. There was no BMW in that price range or performance that could compete. The 2002tii was a great car, but it was no Corvette. BMW didn't build one then and they never will.