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      10-18-2021, 07:08 AM   #177
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My student loan payment is 3500. 1 million dollars of debt with interest given by the government at a super low (sarcasm) rate of 7%. Down to 650K after I refinanced but still same payment for less number of years. I make 2200 per shift. I admit 10 patients per shift. Those 10 patients made 100k for the hospital the night I admitted them and 100k every night thereafter. You're saying I don't deserve 2K out of the 100k the hospital will make? I'm 2% of the cost. You think physician salaries are the problem in the US healthcare system. Buddy, you have no idea lol.
Thatís correct. US healthcare care is like number 15-20 and behind countries where doctors make less than $100K.

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      10-18-2021, 07:37 AM   #178
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      10-18-2021, 07:44 AM   #179
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What youíre making is a more accurate income for a doctor. What US doctors make is absurd and part of the reason our healthcare is fucked up. Plus most go into a medicine as a business to make money and not because of internal desire or calling to help people
As a doctor, would have to disagree completely. Didn't go into it for the money, and would say the majority of people do not go into it for the money. If you want to make a ton of money, you would probably not go into medicine. Medicine affords a decent salary for relatively low risk, when you get to the end of the road. But you lose a ton of investing years because of medschool and training. I remember thinking wow, my classmate in college who went into I-banking started at 22 to make 300k/year. I made about 30-50k until I was 32.

Besides the cost of medical school (and I went to a state school so it wasn't terrible but still, after college still hurts), I then made about 30-50k/year for the next 6 years doing internship, residency and fellowship, working about 80-100 hours/week. In order to get into residency and fellowship, you had to rack up huge debt on your credit card travelling to different states and programs. I never paid that credit card off until end of the first year of my first real job.

Totally not fair to say most go into medicine as a business to make money. Part of the distrust of science and medicine that we see these days goes to poorly thought out views like this that are tossed around the internet without any research or data to back it up.
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      10-18-2021, 08:01 AM   #180
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Yes. Except here it is anonymous. So it is actually useful. How do you think Glassdoor or LinkedIn comes up with their salary data?

This isn't LinkedIn though.

Context matters. Discussing salaries on a car forum is as tacky as discussing M3s on LinkedIn is pointless.
if there is A RR forum, let's ask them and see how much they'll love the question


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      10-18-2021, 08:49 AM   #181
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Thatís correct. US healthcare care is like number 15-20 and behind countries where doctors make less than $100K. So that gives me an idea that most doctors are overpaid. Also Iíve seen enough doctors in my life to conclude that they donít care and simply go in the field for the money. Case in point - so many Indians come here and rush to dental or medical field. Most of you donít have a calling to heal people nor feed people with Subways nor fuel American cars with owning every damn gas station. I know enough Patels- itís for the money, lol
Wow way to COMPLETELY miss the point.

There are so many things wrong here I don't even know where to begin. I don't think anything I say will change your narrow minded views.... but what the hell.

Doctors make a tiny fraction of what the hospital groups charge per patient, as outlined in the post you ignored. If the Healthcare system is screwed up it's definitely not due to doctor salaries. But I guess misinformed people only see what physicians make. They don't see things like the cost for facilities, the cost for medical equipment, the salaries of the executives running the hospital groups, etc. Physician salaries are miniscule in comparison.

Referencing countries where doctors make less than $100k without also referencing things like licensing requirements and... you know.... adjusting for things like cost of living and compared to other wages within the country... is just short sighted. And in regards to licensing, the US has stricter education requirements for physicians, where physicians from many countries aren't able to transfer over their qualifications to the US without further education and testing.

The requirements themselves are intense. Beyond a 4 year degree, there's another 4 years for med school, then 3-4 years of residency where you're working your ass off making $40k a year, then maybe another 2-3 years of fellowship which is again working your ass off for maybe $50k a year. Finally you're in your field, but the stress can be insane. Long hours, nights, people trying to sue you just to make a buck even though you're doing everything in your power to help them. Patients who make it sound like it's your fault they're in the situation they're in and accusing you of not working some sort of magic to fix them. Did I mention people trying to sue you? It's one of the most stressful fields you can be in.

I know many people who've tried to go into medicine for the money and they fail. It's not easy to become a physician. But your remarks about Indians really takes the cake. Majority of physicians in the US are white btw. So I'm really not sure why you decided to bring race into this... as if somehow Indians specifically probably aren't in it for the virtues of helping people.

Asians as a whole (this includes Indians, Chinese, etc) make up about 17% of the physician workforce, and most are 2nd generation... meaning they were born here in the US.

And to your last remark about comparing physicians to people who run Subways or gas stations.... im sorry but that's just not worthy of a response.
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      10-18-2021, 08:58 AM   #182
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I have never bought a new BMW, but have owned used ones.

I could write a check for one if I wanted, but that wouldn't be a wise financial decision.

There aren't any new BMWs I want, so I'll stick to old ones.
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      10-18-2021, 09:58 AM   #183
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Man this escalated quick lol
Back to M3s...
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      10-18-2021, 12:39 PM   #184
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As a doctor, would have to disagree completely. Didn't go into it for the money, and would say the majority of people do not go into it for the money. If you want to make a ton of money, you would probably not go into medicine. Medicine affords a decent salary for relatively low risk, when you get to the end of the road. But you lose a ton of investing years because of medschool and training. I remember thinking wow, my classmate in college who went into I-banking started at 22 to make 300k/year. I made about 30-50k until I was 32.

Besides the cost of medical school (and I went to a state school so it wasn't terrible but still, after college still hurts), I then made about 30-50k/year for the next 6 years doing internship, residency and fellowship, working about 80-100 hours/week. In order to get into residency and fellowship, you had to rack up huge debt on your credit card travelling to different states and programs. I never paid that credit card off until end of the first year of my first real job.

Totally not fair to say most go into medicine as a business to make money. Part of the distrust of science and medicine that we see these days goes to poorly thought out views like this that are tossed around the internet without any research or data to back it up.
Yeah, I definitely try to steer the kids away from medicine, law, etc, as they mainly aspire for some sort of self-wealth currently. Reminds me of this article:
https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2016/09...k-drivers.html
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      10-18-2021, 12:43 PM   #185
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I got a raise. I made $13 dollars this year
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      10-18-2021, 01:21 PM   #186
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i got mine used cause I don't meet the OP's 99%
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      10-18-2021, 02:04 PM   #187
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I'm just glad McDonalds raised their entry level positions to $15/hour. I left my job as an engineer and can finally afford the finer things in life. I feel like income is relative. Everyone's situation is different.

I have a friend who is going through a divorce. Great job, really expensive home, fancy cars, etc. They told me last night they are in debt up their eyeballs, $20k to father-in-law, $50k to their parents, not to mention mortgage, student loan debt, etc. On paper, they look successful, start digging through the books and Mr. Moneybags is crying himself to sleep at night trying to figure out to make all this work. A car or a home is not an indicator of success.
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      10-18-2021, 02:11 PM   #188
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I'm spending as much at the grocery store these days as I am on my monthly car payment, gas, and auto insurance combined.
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      10-18-2021, 02:26 PM   #189
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      10-18-2021, 02:37 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by King Rudi View Post
I'm just glad McDonalds raised their entry level positions to $15/hour. I left my job as an engineer and can finally afford the finer things in life. I feel like income is relative. Everyone's situation is different.

I have a friend who is going through a divorce. Great job, really expensive home, fancy cars, etc. They told me last night they are in debt up their eyeballs, $20k to father-in-law, $50k to their parents, not to mention mortgage, student loan debt, etc. On paper, they look successful, start digging through the books and Mr. Moneybags is crying himself to sleep at night trying to figure out to make all this work. A car or a home is not an indicator of success.
In those situations, the car is likely the least of the worries. Likely paying 2x an M3 payment in interest on revolving accounts each month.
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      10-18-2021, 03:29 PM   #191
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I'm spending as much at the grocery store these days as I am on my monthly car payment, gas, and auto insurance combined.
I'm smoking fewer and fewer briskets these days
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      10-18-2021, 03:37 PM   #192
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I make like a solid 80-88k
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      10-18-2021, 04:03 PM   #193
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That makes sense, I work as an orthopedic surgeon (mainly hip and knee arthroplasty), and as far as I know, same job in there could be having incomes as high as 400k per year.
Lucky you guys that live there. I tried to, once a long time ago.
What you’re making is a more accurate income for a doctor. What US doctors make is absurd and part of the reason our healthcare is fucked up. Plus most go into a medicine as a business to make money and not because of internal desire or calling to help people
Ok now we went from generalizing people to generalizing my profession. Doctors (forget the investment of school time and energy) are grossly paid less than those in finance and business so why would someone become a doctor to get rich. It always amazes me how people think they are overpaid we must be. To prevent this thread from being any more toxic I'll stop there but trust me if you wanna be rich I don't advise becoming a physician.
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      10-18-2021, 07:29 PM   #194
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You know how many people own 100k car and live with their parents. Owning a expensive home to me is a sign of wealth not a car. Mortgage payments,Property taxes and up keep you can't be poor.
Or 3-4 to an apartment, or ..... No reason to think about, worry about, ask about, assume about anyone's motivation to own a great.... anything.
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      10-18-2021, 08:32 PM   #195
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      10-18-2021, 11:39 PM   #196
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      10-18-2021, 11:47 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
As a doctor, would have to disagree completely. Didn't go into it for the money, and would say the majority of people do not go into it for the money. If you want to make a ton of money, you would probably not go into medicine. Medicine affords a decent salary for relatively low risk, when you get to the end of the road. But you lose a ton of investing years because of medschool and training. I remember thinking wow, my classmate in college who went into I-banking started at 22 to make 300k/year. I made about 30-50k until I was 32.

Besides the cost of medical school (and I went to a state school so it wasn't terrible but still, after college still hurts), I then made about 30-50k/year for the next 6 years doing internship, residency and fellowship, working about 80-100 hours/week. In order to get into residency and fellowship, you had to rack up huge debt on your credit card travelling to different states and programs. I never paid that credit card off until end of the first year of my first real job.

Totally not fair to say most go into medicine as a business to make money. Part of the distrust of science and medicine that we see these days goes to poorly thought out views like this that are tossed around the internet without any research or data to back it up.
I'm completing my Residency and have learned that idiot posters like the one you are responding to reflect the viewpoints of a lot of American society. Doctors are sadly not respected and mistrusted.

The opportunity cost of Medicine is what has made it an increasingly hard sell. I'm in my late 20s and have a very limited investment portfolio with 6 figure debt. Not to mention so many key years of my 20s spent studying and working endlessly, and therefore so many life experiences left unfulfilled. Yet the average idiot thinks Doctors earn too much when in reality America's healthcare problems have nothing to do with Physician compensation. Insurance companies, politicians, medical schools, residency programs, nursing/PA/NP unions enrich themselves at our expense. We sacrifice so much only to be told off by posters like the above and politicians who think we don't pay our "fair share" in taxes.

Sure not a lot of professions offer a $250k-300k salary by time time you hit your late 20s, but they also don't require a minimum of 7 years training AFTER college. 4 years of that you don't earn a penny and are instead raking in eye watering debt.

I can't quite say I regret it yet, but part of my wonders where I'd be had I instead opted for tech fields like some of my friends did. I started undergrad a decade ago, was only 17 at the time, and didn't know shit. Was told all my life that Medicine is the most lucrative field and went ahead with it. Reality is with Medicine you have to be in it for the long haul. The money comes, but at what cost? And these days with how expensive everything, notably student loans and real estate have become, you need a dual income Physician or Physician-Tech/IB/VC household to really feel well off.
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      10-19-2021, 12:23 AM   #198
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I'm completing my Residency and have learned that idiot posters like the one you are responding to reflect the viewpoints of a lot of American society. Doctors are sadly not respected and mistrusted.

The opportunity cost of Medicine is what has made it an increasingly hard sell. I'm in my late 20s and have a very limited investment portfolio with 6 figure debt. Not to mention so many key years of my 20s spent studying and working endlessly, and therefore so many life experiences left unfulfilled. Yet the average idiot thinks Doctors earn too much when in reality America's healthcare problems have nothing to do with Physician compensation. Insurance companies, politicians, medical schools, residency programs, nursing/PA/NP unions enrich themselves at our expense. We sacrifice so much only to be told off by posters like the above and politicians who think we don't pay our "fair share" in taxes.

Sure not a lot of professions offer a $250k-300k salary by time time you hit your late 20s, but they also don't require a minimum of 7 years training AFTER college. 4 years of that you don't earn a penny and are instead raking in eye watering debt.

I can't quite say I regret it yet, but part of my wonders where I'd be had I instead opted for tech fields like some of my friends did. I started undergrad a decade ago, was only 17 at the time, and didn't know shit. Was told all my life that Medicine is the most lucrative field and went ahead with it. Reality is with Medicine you have to be in it for the long haul. The money comes, but at what cost? And these days with how expensive everything, notably student loans and real estate have become, you need a dual income Physician or Physician-Tech/IB/VC household to really feel well off.
100%.

My wife is a doc. Was barely "getting by" until she finished residency.
Get this... nurses are leaving our ER for traveling gigs making 8K per week working 30 hrs/wk LOL. That's way more than even ER docs make. But don't hate the player. Hate the game...
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