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      10-07-2021, 04:12 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
Or you could just read the recent half dozen non biased research studies that say the same thing. Just because CNN doesn’t report on them doesn’t mean the internet gods have blocked them. At least not yet.
I don't think they're wrong, but I'm also not sure that relying only on those antibodies is the best option. It may be even better in the long term to also get the vaccine. Or, maybe there's limited data on how much the vaccine boosts immunity for those who have had covid already, and there's no clear answer yet. I don't know, so that's why I'm asking.

Doesn't matter to me since I never got the virus, but I hear a lot of people saying this so I'm curious.
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      10-07-2021, 04:15 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Tommysalami View Post
I don't think they're wrong, but I'm also not sure that relying only on those antibodies is the best option. It may be even better in the long term to also get the vaccine. Or, maybe there's limited data on how much the vaccine boosts immunity for those who have had covid already, and there's no clear answer yet. I don't know, so that's why I'm asking.

Doesn't matter to me since I never got the virus, but I hear a lot of people saying this so I'm curious.
Check out all the research on having measles versus getting the measles vaccine versus having both. That should tell you a lot.
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      10-07-2021, 04:46 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Tommysalami View Post
I hear a lot of arguments against the vaccine from those who have previously had covid, stating that the antibodies they have make the vaccine unnecessary. Seems like a legit argument at the surface. What do you think?
Natural immunity will almost always trump immunity from a vaccine. It's not just the antibodies, it's IgA, B&T cells, IgM, and IgG. At this time, my recommendation to my patients is to not get vaccinated if you already had COVID. That recommendation may change based on the variants we see in the future and as more data comes in on the vaccines. Each vaccine isn't the same so some are better or worse than the others. My concern is that the viruses mutate to a form that can enter the cells in other places than the ACE2 receptor. I believe the Delta variant is such an example as at least one study on heart cells showed the virus entered through CD147 receptors.
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      10-07-2021, 05:12 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Kick 6 View Post
I am unfamiliar with Turkey Tail mushrooms but a quick search found this. It appears to be an immunologic agent.

http://article.foodnutritionresearch...FNR-4-12-2.pdf
From the article you provided it looks like it does have it. Thanks for the help!

Among the mushroom-derived compounds with
therapeutic properties, the polysaccharides obtained from
extracts of C. versicolor are the best known commercially.
Both preparations (PSP and PSK) consist of β-glucans,
polymers of D-glucose with β-1,3 and α-1,4 glycosidic
linkages, but some of them can also contain arabinose,
mannose, fucose, galactose, xylose and glucuronic acids.
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      10-07-2021, 07:30 PM   #27
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Great thread and thanks for the information.

Do masks protect the wearer and prevent the virus from spreading?

Aside from fucose, what are some other preventative measures?
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      10-08-2021, 04:34 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by KennyFSU View Post
Great thread and thanks for the information.

Do masks protect the wearer and prevent the virus from spreading?

Aside from fucose, what are some other preventative measures?
It has been known from the influenza studies that masks do not protect the wearer from infection at all. The studies showed the transmission rates were identical between people who wore masks and those who did not. Masks can slow the spread when worn by people infected with the virus but won't stop the spread. The numbers vary, but a 40 to 60 percent reduction is usually what the studies show.

My personal opinion is that this virus isn't spread by surface contact like influenza. My opinion is that we must breathe enough virus to overwhelm our immune system. Anything that can strengthen your immune system would make t more difficult to acquire an infection. That is a huge topic that can get very lengthy. I don't have time to address everything so I'll just touch a couple things that are important.

Sleep is probably the most important factor for our immune system. If I had to rate everything of importance from 1 to 100, melatonin would probably be number 1. The number two on that list would be what we eat. What I eat may not be the best thing for you to eat because we are all different. Lowering inflammation is important, eating alkaline foods over acidic foods because of its affect on our microbiome, and replenishing lost nutrients and minerals. I've read a ton of research on this but it's just too big to tackle on an open question like this.

Basically, to not get COVID, breathe outside air. When I eat out, I sit outside as much as possible. When I have to eat inside, I sit as close to the door as possible. Air exchange in a room is the most important factor in keeping transmission rates down. Carbon dioxide levels inside increase as the day progresses. When I go to get a haircut, I go early in the day as possible. Schedule inside events as early in the day as possible and the chances of transmission decrease. One study from China showed that people that wore glasses had a dramatically decreased chance of being hospitalized from COVID. The media never tells you about our eyes being a route of transmission but they are. Wearing glasses inside should help decrease transmission.

Last edited by Kick 6; 10-08-2021 at 04:51 AM..
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      10-08-2021, 05:21 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kick 6 View Post
It has been known from the influenza studies that masks do not protect the wearer from infection at all. The studies showed the transmission rates were identical between people who wore masks and those who did not. Masks can slow the spread when worn by people infected with the virus but won't stop the spread. The numbers vary, but a 40 to 60 percent reduction is usually what the studies show.

My personal opinion is that this virus isn't spread by surface contact like influenza. My opinion is that we must breathe enough virus to overwhelm our immune system. Anything that can strengthen your immune system would make t more difficult to acquire an infection. That is a huge topic that can get very lengthy. I don't have time to address everything so I'll just touch a couple things that are important.

Sleep is probably the most important factor for our immune system. If I had to rate everything of importance from 1 to 100, melatonin would probably be number 1. The number two on that list would be what we eat. What I eat may not be the best thing for you to eat because we are all different. Lowering inflammation is important, eating alkaline foods over acidic foods because of its affect on our microbiome, and replenishing lost nutrients and minerals. I've read a ton of research on this but it's just too big to tackle on an open question like this.

Basically, to not get COVID, breathe outside air. When I eat out, I sit outside as much as possible. When I have to eat inside, I sit as close to the door as possible. Air exchange in a room is the most important factor in keeping transmission rates down. Carbon dioxide levels inside increase as the day progresses. When I go to get a haircut, I go early in the day as possible. Schedule inside events as early in the day as possible and the chances of transmission decrease. One study from China showed that people that wore glasses had a dramatically decreased chance of being hospitalized from COVID. The media never tells you about our eyes being a route of transmission but they are. Wearing glasses inside should help decrease transmission.
If you keep throwing actual science around here like you are doing I imagine there are some people that are going to get pretty upset with you. Fortunately I’ve blocked many of those people so I won’t be able to read their angry responses to you.
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      10-08-2021, 08:40 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Kick 6 View Post
At this time, my recommendation to my patients is to not get vaccinated if you already had COVID.
For how long? What if you had Covid 1.5 years ago?

Good article on the topic from today: https://arstechnica.com/science/2021...covid-19-shot/
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      10-08-2021, 09:04 AM   #31
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Sub'd. Great thread. I have no questions at the moment. Close friend of mine is also a pharmacist and we discuss often. Just wanted to say thank you for an informative thread.
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We're Americans. Leave your logic and science witchcraft out of this! Jesus and guns are all we need.
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      10-08-2021, 09:40 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneya View Post
For how long? What if you had Covid 1.5 years ago?

Good article on the topic from today: https://arstechnica.com/science/2021...covid-19-shot/
Please forgive me but I don't use news pieces as a basis for my information. I use research. I read the first few paragraphs in the link you provided and saw several things that showed blatant bias and I discontinued reading.

To answer your question, I don't know for how long my opinion will be like it is now. That depends on what happens in the future and the research available.
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      10-08-2021, 10:15 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kick 6 View Post
Please forgive me but I don't use news pieces as a basis for my information. I use research. I read the first few paragraphs in the link you provided and saw several things that showed blatant bias and I discontinued reading.

To answer your question, I don't know for how long my opinion will be like it is now. That depends on what happens in the future and the research available.
Why don't you point out this bias so the rest of us can see it too.

I don't understand your answer. To recommend someone who had Covid 1.5 years ago to NOT get the vaccine, don't you need some data that shows that they still have immunity?
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      10-08-2021, 10:18 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneya View Post
Why don't you point out this bias so the rest of us can see it too.

I don't understand your answer. To recommend someone who had Covid 1.5 years ago to NOT get the vaccine, don't you need some data that shows that they still have immunity?
I tried finding the article I read, but you can test your antibody levels, I believe. Maybe Kick6 can correct me there.
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      10-08-2021, 10:23 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by EnVe46 View Post
I tried finding the article I read, but you can test your antibody levels, I believe. Maybe Kick6 can correct me there.
If you can do that and that's what Kick6 recommends, that would make sense. But I just see a blanket "I don't recommend a vaccine if you had Covid" statement. I'll wait for the clarification.
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      10-08-2021, 10:30 AM   #36
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I would love to hear about testing antibody levels.
I have an uncle who does medical research, he runs a lab somewhere in WVa. I remember him posting big increases in his anti levels after the first vax he got, mentioning the privilege's of running the lab He never did post his follow-up numbers after 3 months. I don't have direct contact with him to ask.

Now that the "booster" parade is coming to town, I'd like to see empirical evidence (especially in my own body) of how many antibodies are still floating around in me.

I did 2 tests so I could go on a cruise a few weeks ago, both came back negative.
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      10-08-2021, 10:38 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnVe46 View Post
I tried finding the article I read, but you can test your antibody levels, I believe. Maybe Kick6 can correct me there.
You can test antibody levels but they don't last very long in some people. That doesn't necessarily mean they don't have immunity, but antibodies don't last long for some. Heck, some people don't even make them to start off with.

The degree of immunity for a post COVID patient 1.5 years after infection is certainly debatable.
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      10-08-2021, 10:47 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneya View Post
If you can do that and that's what Kick6 recommends, that would make sense. But I just see a blanket "I don't recommend a vaccine if you had Covid" statement. I'll wait for the clarification.
This is the problem with a lot of COVID related topics. It is either a misinterpretation or a blatant decision to force one's narrative. Look at your quote of me above that I quoted. My actual statement was "At this time, my recommendation to my patients is to not get vaccinated if you already had COVID." It is not what you wrote and very different than what you stated.

If you want to go to school for years and spend years studying a topic, then start your own thread and answer questions about it. Don't come on my thread and misrepresent me.

Last edited by Kick 6; 10-08-2021 at 10:53 AM..
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      10-08-2021, 11:00 AM   #39
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Recent news, to support the booster, were (random?) numbers about efficacy dropping from 85+ to 47%. Efficacy of what? I'm vaccinated, but I can still get la 'rona, I can still pass it on, . . .

As I was having this discussion with family last night, and I said "I'm vaccinated, why do I need to be worried about all you other vaccinated people?" They said again, we can all still get it, and pass it.

So WTF did we get vaccinated? And what does an xx% efficacy rate mean? Don't spin this shit into "Well, it will be less intense if you get it" That's fine and dandy, but that NOT what was represented by all the media.

I am NOT trying to make this political, I TRULY want to understand these risks I'm taking. But there is SO MUCH BS floating around, on all sides.
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      10-08-2021, 01:00 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneya View Post
Why don't you point out this bias so the rest of us can see it too.
"One of the more persistent—and hairier—arguments"
"the thinking goes"
"however rare"

You don't need any special training to grok this isn't an unbiased article.
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      10-08-2021, 03:39 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kick 6 View Post
This is the problem with a lot of COVID related topics. It is either a misinterpretation or a blatant decision to force one's narrative. Look at your quote of me above that I quoted. My actual statement was "At this time, my recommendation to my patients is to not get vaccinated if you already had COVID." It is not what you wrote and very different than what you stated.

If you want to go to school for years and spend years studying a topic, then start your own thread and answer questions about it. Don't come on my thread and misrepresent me.
I don't know where I misrepresented you. You again reiterate saying don't get vaccinated if you've had it. You don't explain why that's a better idea than getting a vaccine, if you've had it 1.5 years ago. Please explain the logic.

And in case that's for some reason unclear, I'm asking this question with waning immunity in mind.

Last edited by Noneya; 10-08-2021 at 03:57 PM..
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      10-08-2021, 04:02 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3PedalJake View Post
"One of the more persistent—and hairier—arguments"
"the thinking goes"
"however rare"

You don't need any special training to grok this isn't an unbiased article.
I understand where you're coming from, thanks. Two paragraphs below that, the question of rarity of side effects is explicitly addressed, and I agree the order of those paragraphs could've been changed or the statement could've said, see below.
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      10-08-2021, 04:09 PM   #43
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Hold my beer while I go buy huge amount of nuts from Costco!
Hahahahahaha
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      10-08-2021, 04:32 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kick 6 View Post
Natural immunity will almost always trump immunity from a vaccine. It's not just the antibodies, it's IgA, B&T cells, IgM, and IgG. At this time, my recommendation to my patients is to not get vaccinated if you already had COVID. That recommendation may change based on the variants we see in the future and as more data comes in on the vaccines. Each vaccine isn't the same so some are better or worse than the others. My concern is that the viruses mutate to a form that can enter the cells in other places than the ACE2 receptor. I believe the Delta variant is such an example as at least one study on heart cells showed the virus entered through CD147 receptors.
What about those that haven't had Covid yet? Better to avoid the vax and catch Covid for the natural immunity advantages you describe above, or vax up and go that route? This is an academic question, I'm in the Moderna tribe, but your information is interesting and illuminating.
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