[M3CDan]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

tbd- he used the word "miles" didn't say Kilometres...

All the germans have been under reporting mileage so, if 293 is correct, wouldn't be a shock.

He said miles but he meant KM...the dash showed 187 KM driven with 37% of the battery left, he just did the math to estimate 293 KM total range...which would be 188 miles or so... He was hammering it pretty hard, so no surprise that he was depleting the range....

[mrsmith]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Call me a BMW fanboy if you like, but M50 is electric and it's a BMW that checks the boxes for what "I" want in a car. I want leather, HUD, BMW type service, BMW fit finish and quality, etc.

Same for me, Tesla battery/motor tech might be great but their mediocre build quality and minimalist interior approach just doesn't do it for me. And, well they're ugly (M3/Y anyway) but I understand that's subjective. I've never purchased a car for it's efficiency before and I'm not gonna start now just because it's electric!

So I ordered my M50 today and where I live (Ireland) it costs $105,000 with my selected options (vs ~ $90,000 M3P with some extras) and will have to wait until at least March for delivery.

I went for the 19" wheels as range decreases from 503Kms/312 miles (WLTP) to 423Kms/263 miles with the 20".

FYI, due to the "chip shortage" the HUD is not available as an option at launch even though it's in all the review models. This may be different in US.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by mrsmith

Same for me, Tesla battery/motor tech might be great but their mediocre build quality and minimalist interior approach just doesn't do it for me. And, well they're ugly (M3/Y anyway) but I understand that's subjective. I've never purchased a car for it's efficiency before and I'm not gonna start now just because it's electric!

So I ordered my M50 today and where I live (Ireland) it costs $105,000 with my selected options (vs ~ $90,000 M3P with some extras) and will have to wait until at least March for delivery.

I went for the 19" wheels as range decreases from 503Kms/312 miles (WLTP) to 423Kms/263 miles with the 20".

FYI, due to the "chip shortage" the HUD is not available as an option at launch even though it's in all the review models. This may be different in US.

Damn! No HUD!
I really want HUD.

Whatever. I'll build in Nov.
I have never looked at weight or efficiency when buying a car. Or actually, only to see if it was a guzzler or not.

I'm getting the 20's. I'm going all out.

[bavarianride]

I really want to see side-to-side comparison of Model 3 vs. i4 on turns/curves.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Bad stereotype. Could we please get off this soapbox already?

I know this owner personally. He's owned, in the past, multiple high performance cars that he's tracked including a 996 GT3, which he still holds as his high water mark for overall feel. His other car, currently, is an NA Miata....with a 302 Ford V8 out of a Mustang Cobra.

He notes that his Model 3 is the fastest car he's driven around Lime Rock....and second most enjoyable behind the GT3.

I tend to buy vehicles I like, prefer etc. I was test driver for oil company, for car magazine, and now I track my car just for fun. So, does that mean you should buy vehicle I say you should?
Fastest doesn't equal most fun. Mazda Miata is definitely not fastest vehicle, but it is tone of fun.
So, again, oversized, badly assembled I must say, iPad on the wheels.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Bad stereotype. Could we please get off this soapbox already?

As of right now, Tesla is still a SW learning how to build cars, while BMW is a car company that is catching up (very fast) on SW.

And because of Tesla's SW focus, it does not focus enough on the basics.

E.g. while BMW and others are conservative with battery safety structures without battery as part of chassis, Telsa will double down by removing the "skateboard", and bolt on front and rear subframes to the battery pack, at a time their battery chemistry still allows thermal runaways.

I did have a Model 3 on order, but Tesla had no car for me, so I bought a G20 instead. In hindsight, that appears to be the right choice to sidestep Tesla for now.

[Barnsleyshaun]

Originally Posted by mrsmith

Same for me, Tesla battery/motor tech might be great but their mediocre build quality and minimalist interior approach just doesn't do it for me. And, well they're ugly (M3/Y anyway) but I understand that's subjective. I've never purchased a car for it's efficiency before and I'm not gonna start now just because it's electric!

So I ordered my M50 today and where I live (Ireland) it costs $105,000 with my selected options (vs ~ $90,000 M3P with some extras) and will have to wait until at least March for delivery.

I went for the 19" wheels as range decreases from 503Kms/312 miles (WLTP) to 423Kms/263 miles with the 20".

FYI, due to the "chip shortage" the HUD is not available as an option at launch even though it's in all the review models. This may be different in US.

No HUD? Jeez that’s a blow for me, I’d seen in another thread someone said no wireless charging and that didn’t really bother me, but the HUD I want. I spoke with my dealer again yesterday to try and get a build date for my M50 ordered in august but now saying it will be end of month when they know. Up to now I’ve not been informed of any of the options being unavailable - guess they’re waiting to give me a date and then going to break the news?

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Barnsleyshaun

No HUD? Jeez that’s a blow for me, I’d seen in another thread someone said no wireless charging and that didn’t really bother me, but the HUD I want. I spoke with my dealer again yesterday to try and get a build date for my M50 ordered in august but now saying it will be end of month when they know. Up to now I’ve not been informed of any of the options being unavailable - guess they’re waiting to give me a date and then going to break the news?

I knew HUD was killed on anything ICE in the 3/4 that wasn't M labeled. That news came out a week ago. I would have thought that on a new model already under allocation they wouldn't drop options.

I guess I was wrong. I had any series for a month with HUD and loved it. Real bummer

[mrsmith]

Originally Posted by Barnsleyshaun

No HUD? Jeez that’s a blow for me, I’d seen in another thread someone said no wireless charging and that didn’t really bother me, but the HUD I want. I spoke with my dealer again yesterday to try and get a build date for my M50 ordered in august but now saying it will be end of month when they know. Up to now I’ve not been informed of any of the options being unavailable - guess they’re waiting to give me a date and then going to break the news?

Yeah I was very disappointed and nearly considered not ordering. I did tell him that if it becomes an option before mine is delivered I'll be cancelling and re-ordering! I never actually asked about the wireless charging so I'm not sure if that's included. TBH it's been in the last 2 cars I've owned and never use it, so not too bothered about that one.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

As of right now, Tesla is still a SW learning how to build cars, while BMW is a car company that is catching up…

Interesting take on the situation

Another way to look at the i4 is that it’s WAY behind the current EV state of the art, which is represented by Tesla, Rivian and Lucid.

5000 lbs at the size of the i4 is borderline embarrassing.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Interesting take on the situation

Another way to look at the i4 is that it’s WAY behind the current EV state of the art, which is represented by Tesla, Rivian and Lucid.

5000 lbs at the size of the i4 is borderline embarrassing.

I will be very interested in a Munro teardown of i4 and see where the weights are used for vs. Tesla.

E.g. a 500lb reinforcement frame around battery packs vs. no reinforcement of 6000+ 2170 cells would be useful info for consumers.

Let's say Munro says i4's battery partition is 50% safer than Tesla, would u ditch your Tesla right away?

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Interesting take on the situation

Another way to look at the i4 is that it’s WAY behind the current EV state of the art, which is represented by Tesla, Rivian and Lucid.

5000 lbs at the size of the i4 is borderline embarrassing.

On the contrary.

BMW uses a 5th generation motor that uses no rare earth metals.

It uses integrated and regenerative braking that is full drive by wire and the car decides how much regen vs real brake to use. It varies constantly from 0% regen if the batteries are charged to 100% if the batteries can take the energy. They also use a GPS aware regen and baking system that understands terrain.

Don't be fooled that BMW is not a tech leader because the car is heavy and they are conservative.

Tesla doesn't have adequate protection for battery packs and there are plenty of stories about cooling nipples breaking and rendering the pack dead. There are also stories about water intrusion killing motors in normal conditions without the car being submerged.

Tesla plays fast and loose with safety.
My daughter's Chevy Bolt weighs in at 3800lbs.
It's quite a bit smaller than the i4. It's also a bespoke EV platform.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Interesting take on the situation

Another way to look at the i4 is that it’s WAY behind the current EV state of the art, which is represented by Tesla, Rivian and Lucid.

5000 lbs at the size of the i4 is borderline embarrassing.

Well lets see if it actually gets 25% less range than the Tesla in real life.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

On the contrary.

BMW uses a 5th generation motor that uses no rare earth metals.

It uses integrated and regenerative braking that is full drive by wire and the car decides how much regen vs real brake to use. It varies constantly from 0% regen if the batteries are charged to 100% if the batteries can take the energy. They also use a GPS aware regen and baking system that understands terrain.

Don't be fooled that BMW is not a tech leader because the car is heavy and they are conservative.

Tesla doesn't have adequate protection for battery packs and there are plenty of stories about cooling nipples breaking and rendering the pack dead. There are also stories about water intrusion killing motors in normal conditions without the car being submerged.

Tesla plays fast and loose with safety.
My daughter's Chevy Bolt weighs in at 3800lbs.
It's quite a bit smaller than the i4. It's also a bespoke EV platform.

I still would like to see the same i4 weights in at 3500lb with the same range, safety, tech, size, 0-60, etc, etc(yes yes it does not hit my open source EV spec yet), do u think it is doable?

What are the engineering advances and techs needed to reduce 1500lb from i4?

[4monks]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

I still would like to see the same i4 weights in at 3500lb with the same range, safety, tech, size, 0-60, etc, etc(yes yes it does not hit my open source EV spec yet), do u think it is doable?

What are the engineering advances and techs needed to reduce 1500lb from i4?

The i4 shares the chassis and body with the 4 series Gran Coupe as we know. The M440i Gran Coupe weighs 4180 lbs. The i4 weight is 858 lbs over its ICE sibling. Not bad considering the battery pack alone weighs 550kg (1212 lbs). Weight could be taken out but only by increasing cost considerably or shaving corners. A shared platform was the starting point, and from that point of view, they've done a pretty good job. In the main, most of the motoring press seem to agree.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

I still would like to see the same i4 weights in at 3500lb with the same range, safety, tech, size, 0-60, etc, etc(yes yes it does not hit my open source EV spec yet), do u think it is doable?

What are the engineering advances and techs needed to reduce 1500lb from i4?

My daughter's Bolt weighs 3800lbs.
I doubt you will see a 3600lb electric BMW that people can afford
There isn't a secret to weight reduction.
If you sacrifice structural integrity and safety you can get lighter weight. Tesla isn't using carbon fiber.

I wonder how a TM3 does in am rollover vs a i4?
That glass roof.....
Tesla is using a single casting in the subframe. it might be lighter but it also means that subframe damage means a total loss

The weight or range doesn't bother me and I've never passed on a car that was a porker.
My E36 M3 weighed more than my E30. My E90 weighed more than my E36.

[Encanto]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

I still would like to see the same i4 weights in at 3500lb with the same range, safety, tech, size, 0-60, etc, etc(yes yes it does not hit my open source EV spec yet), do u think it is doable?

What are the engineering advances and techs needed to reduce 1500lb from i4?

The carbon fiber-chassis, dedicated-EV platform, i3 weighs 3300lbs. A 3500lbs i4 is not doable unless you change the name of the i3 to the i4.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by 4monks

The i4 shares the chassis and body with the 4 series Gran Coupe as we know. The M440i Gran Coupe weighs 4180 lbs. The i4 weight is 858 lbs over its ICE sibling. Not bad considering the battery pack alone weighs 550kg (1212 lbs). Weight could be taken out but only by increasing cost considerably or shaving corners. A shared platform was the starting point, and from that point of view, they've done a pretty good job. In the main, most of the motoring press seem to agree.

So removing the ICE components do save 1212-858=354lb.

I do wonder what is i4 weight if it shares G20 chassis.

E.g. 3G20 30i is 3500lb. Let's say 300lb can be saved by removing ICE, that drops the weight to 3200lb.

Adding 1200lb of battery can get a i4(based on G20) to be around 4400lb, right?

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

So removing the ICE components do save 1212-858=354lb.

I do wonder what is i4 weight if it shares G20 chassis.

E.g. 3G20 30i is 3500lb. Let's say 300lb can be saved by removing ICE, that drops the weight to 3200lb.

Adding 1200lb of battery can get a i4(based on G20) to be around 4400lb, right?

You left out the weight of the electric motors at each end and the cooling system that goes with them. A better starting point or comparison would be the i440 x-Drive

But in any case the weight is the weight. You can be assured BMW would not have weight on a car that they could dump

[4monks]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

So removing the ICE components do save 1212-858=354lb.

I do wonder what is i4 weight if it shares G20 chassis.

E.g. 3G20 30i is 3500lb. Let's say 300lb can be saved by removing ICE, that drops the weight to 3200lb.

Adding 1200lb of battery can get a i4(based on G20) to be around 4400lb, right?

Yer.. that doesn't quite work out. If what you are trying to do is see what a G20 might weigh if it had the i4 M50 setup....

For the guesstimation maths to apply, you would need to start with an M340i G20 weight (the same baseline as the M440i GC comparison) and add that delta between an M440i GC and i4 M50.

If we assume the hypothetical "iG20" used the same EV components as the i4 M50, in such a scenario, the base weight of the G20 M340i is 3847 lbs + the delta of i4 M50 and M440i GC of 858 lbs takes the total "iG20" to 4705 lbs, about 474 lbs more than the TM3P.


So no great surprise... as a similarly spec'd the G20 is lighter than a G26 by ~350 lbs.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by 4monks

For the guesstimation maths to apply, you would need to start with an M340i G20 weight (the same baseline as the M440i GC comparison) and add that delta between an M440i GC and i4 M50.

Why does iG20 need to start with M340i weight?

Do note the extra 300lb from 330i to M340i comes from the I6 vs. I4, and extra standard options available on M340i.

So I would think 330i base's 3500lb minus 300lb will give the G20 chassis + wheels + interior equipments(etc, etc), and then add 1200+lb for battery + electric motor.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

But in any case the weight is the weight. You can be assured BMW would not have weight on a car that they could dump

Yes a Munro teardown needs to happen now.