[JohnnyCanuck]

Obioban, that's a great video. I will have to watch his other one to get his complete take, but the points he makes are all genuinely valid. Might not push me over the fence to iPhone, but they are real considerations.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

Obioban, that's a great video. I will have to watch his other one to get his complete take, but the points he makes are all genuinely valid. Might not push me over the fence to iPhone, but they are real considerations.

His other video (iPhone XS review) basically could be shortened to, "this was a boring update and nothing exciting happening in the phone space anymore".

Which is true-- but to be expected in an ever increasingly mature market.

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I heard blah, blah, blah, I love apple....nothing more. None of the selling points mentioned in his video are anything that pertain to me or my usage of a device. Perhaps I'm old and don't rely on my phone for the same reasons those in the age groups of 14 - 30 year olds. If a person is an apple fan and has multiple apple devices, buy an iPhone.

I will give him credit for the open source comments about security.

At the end of the day, smart phones are going to do basically the same thing: lure you into using their device so that the companies can build a profile of the user for marketing purposes. When it comes down to it, there is very little difference between IOS and Android, it's simply the user's preference.

[________]

Originally Posted by Not_Judy

I heard blah, blah, blah, I love apple....nothing more. None of the selling points mentioned in his video are anything that pertain to me or my usage of a device. Perhaps I'm old and don't rely on my phone for the same reasons those in the age groups of 14 - 30 year olds. If a person is an apple fan and has multiple apple devices, buy an iPhone.

I will give him credit for the open source comments about security.

At the end of the day, smart phones are going to do basically the same thing: lure you into using their device so that the companies can build a profile of the user for marketing purposes. When it comes down to it, there is very little difference between IOS and Android, it's simply the user's preference.

That's where you're wrong though.
You buy apple products and they're more secure and private.

You buy android and you're their product.

There's little sense in saying apple is building your profile to market to you.

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

That's where you're wrong though.
You buy apple products and they're more secure and private.

You buy android and you're their product.

There's little sense in saying apple is building your profile to market to you.

Curious to hear how I am androids product? You honestly feel that apple doesn't track usage of their devices for marketing?

[________]

Originally Posted by Not_Judy

Curious to hear how I am androids product? You honestly feel that apple doesn't track usage of their devices for marketing?

Google's entire business model is marketing.
They'll analyze searches, purchases, behavioural patterns etc. to enhance their marketing ability to other companies.

Apple's business model is service, hardware and software development.

I honestly believe Apple does not track me for marketing purposes. 1) because their marketing strategy is well defined and is not catered to different profiles and 2) because they don't sell info to other companies so other companies can market to me.

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

Google's entire business model is marketing.
They'll analyze searches, purchases, behavioural patterns etc. to enhance their marketing ability to other companies.

Apple's business model is service, hardware and software development.

I honestly believe Apple does not track me for marketing purposes. 1) because their marketing strategy is well defined and is not catered to different profiles and 2) because they don't sell info to other companies so other companies can market to me.

You're right. I should have just bought an iPhone.

[________]

Originally Posted by Not_Judy

You're right. I should have just bought an iPhone.

Not really, people can use their androids normally. Just like using their gmail, just don't expect privacy.

I mean, why do you think the Facebook app for Android has the ability (and does it) to fetch all your SMS texts and calls, and upload it to Facebook servers?

No such thing with iOS...

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

Not really, people can use their androids normally. Just like using their gmail, just don't expect privacy.

I mean, why do you think the Facebook app for Android has the ability (and does it) to fetch all your SMS texts and calls, and upload it to Facebook servers?

No such thing with iOS...

Couldn't tell you, don't use Facebook as it is nothing more than an over-hyped marketing tool and a bull-horn for idiots. I also imagine that there are options/settings to un-check this option as there is with most android apps.

I use my phone to make calls, respond to emails and send/receive text messages, take/edit pictures for work, calculator; occasionally use the GPS that's it. I'm not one who needs to constantly have my phone in my hand/believes that life revolves around my online presence. I have far too many things in real life to achieve, like actually living my life, noticing what is around me, experience it without sharing it on social media, etc. I also realize I am the exception rather than the case.

To answer your question, I feel that the facebook app and my android phone tracks my usage to build a marketing campaign for me, just as your iPhone does. Go into your settings and disable all the tracking bs that apple has just the same as android has and see how that affects your experience with your phone.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Not_Judy

To answer your question, I feel that the facebook app and my android phone tracks my usage to build a marketing campaign for me, just as your iPhone does. Go into your settings and disable all the tracking bs that apple has just the same as android has and see how that affects your experience with your phone.

Ah, feelings.

The 2018 replacement for facts.

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Ah, feelings.

The 2018 replacement for facts.

I'm sorry, allow me to recount my statement. My phone tracks my usage, just as your iPhone tracks yours. Better?

Someone will be along shortly to start a Playstation versus Xbox debate.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Not_Judy

I'm sorry, allow me to recount my statement. My phone tracks my usage, just as your iPhone tracks yours. Better?

Someone will be along shortly to start a Playstation versus Xbox debate.

Certainly some amount of data is required for a phone to function.

That said, key differences include...
-android collects an order of magnitude more
-Google makes their money by selling data. Apple does not sell any data (they make their money selling hardware).
-Apple anonymizes data whenever possible, so they can't access it even if they wanted to (more specifically, they can't even if compelled by a search warrant).

Saying that tracking and data mining is the same on both platforms is nothing short of incredibly naive.

Originally Posted by Not_Judy

Go into your settings and disable all the tracking bs that apple has just the same as android has and see how that affects your experience with your phone.

No, turning it off is not a solution on android. E.g. just recently:
Google Confirms It Still Tracks Users Who Disable Location Tracking

Android is paid for by selling user data. That's the cost.
iOS is paid for by selling iOS devices. The cost is the higher price point.

Facebook was the first data seller to get exposed. But, they won't be the last-- and google will be the biggest.

[JohnnyCanuck]

The security argument is an example of why the right debate isn't iOS vs. Android, it's iPhone vs. Samsung/BlackBerry/Google/LG. iPhones are not inherently more secure than what BlackBerry's done with Android or Samsung (Secure folder/Knox) or Google itself (latest example being Titan M).

I'm not considering Brand X Android phone. I am considering the Note 9 and the Pixel 3 primarily (if BlackBerry had wireless charging on the Key2 that might have been in the debate but the specs are a bit meh in general). So, whether the XS or XR is a better phone than a Nokia or Oppo is irrelevant.

As for the data argument, no question Google collects information for monetization purposes. So does Apple (in a different way). However, the phone (for me) is a lever into the Microsoft ecosystem and I use very little of Google's actual services as would be the case with iOS. I don't use Google Drive and I wouldn't use iCloud. I don't use Google Docs and I wouldn't use iWork (if that's still what it's called).

The idea that Apple is more privacy sensitive is misleading. Apple uses the data it collects not just to sell hardware but to specifically tailor it's systems and platforms to wall you into their ecosystem. The difficulty in sideloading iOS apps has nothing to do with security ... it has everything to do with Apple protecting it's commissions on the App Store which in turn is wildly important to Apple for data collection purposes.

None of these companies have the consumer's interests at heart. They all use your data to enhance revenue. While their usage models might vary, they are ultimately all in the same game.

ps. Xbox

[________]

Originally Posted by Not_Judy

So you are telling me that Apple doesn't sponsor ads to you in the News App or their Ap Store based on data mining as you stated above? Interesting.

Are you saying there's no difference between seeing what you might prefer to cater to you and be more successful in target advertising and collecting your personal information to sell to other companies?

[Obioban]

Selling user data and security are two different topics, imo.

Blackberry has done some interesting stuff with security within android-- but I have yet to meet a single person who has purchased one, and don't know how much longer they'll be offered (presumably if they continue to lose money, they'll stop being sold at some point).

Separately/unrelatedly: Were I getting an android phone, it would be an easy choice for me-- the current Pixel, every time.

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Certainly some amount of data is required for a phone to function.

That said, key differences include...
-android collects an order of magnitude more
-Google makes their money by selling data. Apple does not sell any data (they make their money selling hardware).
-Apple anonymizes data whenever possible, so they can't access it even if they wanted to (more specifically, they can't even if compelled by a search warrant).

Saying that tracking and data mining is the same on both platforms is nothing short of incredibly naive.



No, turning it off is not a solution on android. E.g. just recently:
Google Confirms It Still Tracks Users Who Disable Location Tracking

Android is paid for by selling user data. That's the cost.
iOS is paid for by selling iOS devices. The cost is the higher price point.

Facebook was the first data seller to get exposed. But, they won't be the last-- and google will be the biggest.

So you are telling me that Apple doesn't sponsor ads to you in the News App or their App Store based off data mining as you stated above? And I am naive? Interesting.

Google obviously sells user data, this is no secret; I'm not debating this fact. To say that apple doesn't sell ANY user data for marketing is simply not factual. It may not be done on the same scale as Google but it is being done.

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

Are you saying there's no difference between seeing what you might prefer to cater to you and be more successful in target advertising and collecting your personal information to sell to other companies?

Negative. I'm responding to a comment made stating that "Apple does not sell any data."

[________]

Originally Posted by Not_Judy

Negative. I'm responding to a comment made stating that "Apple does not sell any data."

But where did you get the info that Apple does?

[nyalpine90]

as far as i can remember i have owned 4 motorola beeper/pager
2 nextels, motorola flip phone ( 2 covers blue n grey), lg phone, blackberries, samsung
but no iphone lol. currently have S8+

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Not_Judy

So you are telling me that Apple doesn't sponsor ads to you in the News App or their App Store based off data mining as you stated above? And I am naive? Interesting.

Google obviously sells user data, this is no secret; I'm not debating this fact. To say that apple doesn't sell ANY user data for marketing is simply not factual. It may not be done on the same scale as Google but it is being done.

Here's how ads are displayed in Apple news:
https://developer.apple.com/library/...nOverview.html

Ads appear in the following priority order:

First priority is given to ads that you have directly sold.

If you have remaining inventory of potential ad placements after the above are filled, then backfill sold by Apple News will be placed.

Next priority is your own internal ads, “house” ads for all your channels, or subscription ads for all your channels. (Subscription ads are only available for selected publishers.)

[BayE30]

what i have gathered here is that iphone is better for people who have something to hide, or are criminals....

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by SFCM3

what i have gathered here is that iphone is better for people who have something to hide, or are criminals....

Among other's who value their privacy and the security of their data, yes it is.