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      02-06-2021, 09:41 AM   #111
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I see they took the cartoonish front look of the camaro.
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      02-06-2021, 03:48 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
The V-Wagons are definitely a future classic. A modern V8, RWD, Manual Wagon is pretty much a very rare breed of car. I've followed some over the years on BaT and other sites and they go for a lot of money. A 12k-mile example sold for $90k last year!

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...ts-v-wagon-26/
Similar appeal as the MB E63s wagon. Possibly the most desirable MB today, excluding exotic (GTS, SLR) or ultra classic historic models (300SL gull wing).
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      02-07-2021, 02:13 PM   #113
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Those new Cadillacs do nothing for me visually, they look bloated,
LOL, I hear ya, kinda like the ridiculous grill on the new BMW's ! .......
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      02-09-2021, 07:33 PM   #114
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In case you thought this car would option cheaply:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...ckwings-price/
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      02-09-2021, 07:46 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
In case you thought this car would option cheaply:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...ckwings-price/
All of that is normal and optional on BMW or MB.

Both BMW and MB offer carbon packages for interior and exterior trim for about $5k+, upgraded track seats for $2500-4k, Carbon Ceramic brakes for $8-9k, upgraded interior trims and materials for ~$3k, as well as matte and specialty paint colors for ~5k. Pretty similar pricing.

Cars are becoming more and more expensive with every year, hell we live in the age of the $100k M3 existing (and that's not even the competition or AWD).
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      02-10-2021, 12:37 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
All of that is normal and optional on BMW or MB.

Both BMW and MB offer carbon packages for interior and exterior trim for about $5k+, upgraded track seats for $2500-4k, Carbon Ceramic brakes for $8-9k, upgraded interior trims and materials for ~$3k, as well as matte and specialty paint colors for ~5k. Pretty similar pricing.

Cars are becoming more and more expensive with every year, hell we live in the age of the $100k M3 existing (and that's not even the competition or AWD).
Not only that, it's an art to sucker you in at the base MSRP and then force you to add tons of shit you don't want for that one little thing you do. BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, VW, Audi, they are all experts at this. I want the active CC, but I don't want the speed limit info assist, lane keeping, auto park, blah blah, nope, you gotta get the tech package with executive BS to add that one thing you really want. It's all structured to maximize profit. Hell, even Chevy knows this, a C8 at base price is losing money, but you put on the options and that's what makes the money. Porsche just takes it to the insane with the price often approaching 150% when you add the "reasonable" options.
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      02-10-2021, 11:12 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Not only that, it's an art to sucker you in at the base MSRP and then force you to add tons of shit you don't want for that one little thing you do. BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, VW, Audi, they are all experts at this. I want the active CC, but I don't want the speed limit info assist, lane keeping, auto park, blah blah, nope, you gotta get the tech package with executive BS to add that one thing you really want. It's all structured to maximize profit. Hell, even Chevy knows this, a C8 at base price is losing money, but you put on the options and that's what makes the money. Porsche just takes it to the insane with the price often approaching 150% when you add the "reasonable" options.
Porsche is the worst with that.

"Oh, you want power seats? leather? air conditioning? $$$$$$"

Base price of $80K
As tested $125K
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      02-10-2021, 12:59 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanson View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Not only that, it's an art to sucker you in at the base MSRP and then force you to add tons of shit you don't want for that one little thing you do. BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, VW, Audi, they are all experts at this. I want the active CC, but I don't want the speed limit info assist, lane keeping, auto park, blah blah, nope, you gotta get the tech package with executive BS to add that one thing you really want. It's all structured to maximize profit. Hell, even Chevy knows this, a C8 at base price is losing money, but you put on the options and that's what makes the money. Porsche just takes it to the insane with the price often approaching 150% when you add the "reasonable" options.
Porsche is the worst with that.

"Oh, you want power seats? leather? air conditioning? $$$$$$"

Base price of $80K
As tested $125K
Doesn't Porsche charge you $10k to option without the air conditioning?
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      02-10-2021, 02:22 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Sublime00 View Post
Doesn't Porsche charge you $10k to remove the air conditioning?
Would not surprise me.
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      02-10-2021, 06:29 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanson View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Not only that, it's an art to sucker you in at the base MSRP and then force you to add tons of shit you don't want for that one little thing you do. BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, VW, Audi, they are all experts at this. I want the active CC, but I don't want the speed limit info assist, lane keeping, auto park, blah blah, nope, you gotta get the tech package with executive BS to add that one thing you really want. It's all structured to maximize profit. Hell, even Chevy knows this, a C8 at base price is losing money, but you put on the options and that's what makes the money. Porsche just takes it to the insane with the price often approaching 150% when you add the "reasonable" options.
Porsche is the worst with that.

"Oh, you want power seats? leather? air conditioning? $$$$$$"

Base price of $80K
As tested $125K
And their least expensive cayman with a 6 cylinder starts at 86k
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      02-11-2021, 03:38 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
It used to be that BMW interiors were sparse and to-the-point of assisting in the activity, should I dare say enhancing the "art" of driving. So my angle with any sports sedan is the interior should enhance the activity and art of driving. That means comfortable, supporting seats, good sightlines, simple and informative gauges, and ergonomic controls.

The previous gen ATS (only gen - LOL) arrived at the near introduction of the F30. I drove both cars extensively. The ATS was heads above the F30 in terms of being a (ultimate) driving machine. When I espoused the driving dynamics of the ATS on this forum 8 years ago, most of the feedback was (mimicking the auto mags), "Yeah, but the interior sucks". I didn't find the ATS interior any better nor any worse than the F30 for the purpose of driving the car very well. Of course, it was styled differently, used different materials, and the Cadillac CUE was a touch screen-based system when it is obvious a stationary mouse user interface is a much better solution for a moving vehicle. But I find any type of screen-based user interface pointless in an automobile. I like to drive and not scroll through my phone, even if it is stuck in the dashboard. The magazines even tried to convince readers the ATS windows were too small, even after they originally said from their years-earlier first assessments that the sightlines out of the car were good.

What was better than the F30 was the ATS chassis, brakes, steering, and dynamics. So if one is a Roundel Hound and doesn't really give a shit about driving dynamics and prefers driving an iPhone, then the BMW wins for you. If you care about driving dynamics, then an ATS was the winner. I'm sure the same is still the case with the current line up between BMW and Cadillac. But surely the interior of the Cadillac, without even physically experiencing it, "sucks".

Based on my idea for the function of the interior, the E30 was the best car interior I've experienced. Simple, attractive, driver oriented, and effective at interfacing with the chassis. "Form follows function"
I bought my ATS in 2014 (year old), and it was for the reasons you stated above plus the lower initial price and the long term lower maintenance/repair costs. I've now had it for almost 7 years and very few problems, it has a basic 320 hp V-6, and I think the chances of an expensive problem are extremely low. My plan is to keep it as a basic daily driver and buy an additional weekend car. I don't see enough benefit in my near perfect 65k mile car to write a $50k check (plus trade) on a new car.

My favorite is coming to this forum to learn more about how the BMW (Ultimate Driving Machine) has the better interior and how important this should be to me.
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      02-11-2021, 03:50 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
I follow your logic. However, despite you assuming that I have no experience with cadillac nor with the ATS line, a buddy of mine bought that car, he was in his thirties, not old, I was in my twenties. I liked the exterior of the car, and the performance seemed great although I never drove it. I thought the interior was cool, unique, different. But the same perception as you I hated the VUE touchscreen, and so did he. This new blackwing has the same touchscreen in a package that just looks cheap, the UI looks dated, and that is before fingerprints are riddled all over it. Further, the manual transmission version (the bread and butter) forgoes the spinwheel navigation option ie you have to touch the screen. Further, the interior has those circlar shaped wiper and turn signal knobs, the same ugly and cheap design from chevy aveo's that you get on your vacation rental (when you are an up-and-coming). So for these reasons, the interior sucks. I will not withhold my opinion on an online opinion forum just bc it is the unpopular one to you and others. Cadillac will not be on my cross-shopping list until they fix their interiors. If you or someone else likes the Caddy interior (maybe you dont care about the things I care about). Great, buy it. And no, this doesn't mean I buy cars just for interior and don't care about performance. Last I checked, BMW still makes the best performing luxury car for the money.
The ATS and this interior isn't close to the same. It has a touchscreen and also a control knob in the console, it also has buttons and knobs on the dash. You don't ever need to touch the screen unless you want to. Stick with the "interior sucks" if you want as it's an opinion. Not seeing Aveo and please tell me more about how much better the "Ultimate Driving Machine" interior is, they ever figure out steering feel or they give up? -

People complained that in the ATS there wasn't a volume knob (I only use the buttons on the steering wheel as that's where my hands are) and now people complain that there is one on the dash and the console and somehow it bothers them.
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      02-11-2021, 06:52 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
I follow your logic. However, despite you assuming that I have no experience with cadillac nor with the ATS line, a buddy of mine bought that car, he was in his thirties, not old, I was in my twenties. I liked the exterior of the car, and the performance seemed great although I never drove it. I thought the interior was cool, unique, different. But the same perception as you I hated the VUE touchscreen, and so did he. This new blackwing has the same touchscreen in a package that just looks cheap, the UI looks dated, and that is before fingerprints are riddled all over it. Further, the manual transmission version (the bread and butter) forgoes the spinwheel navigation option ie you have to touch the screen. Further, the interior has those circlar shaped wiper and turn signal knobs, the same ugly and cheap design from chevy aveo's that you get on your vacation rental (when you are an up-and-coming). So for these reasons, the interior sucks. I will not withhold my opinion on an online opinion forum just bc it is the unpopular one to you and others. Cadillac will not be on my cross-shopping list until they fix their interiors. If you or someone else likes the Caddy interior (maybe you dont care about the things I care about). Great, buy it. And no, this doesn't mean I buy cars just for interior and don't care about performance. Last I checked, BMW still makes the best performing luxury car for the money.
The ATS and this interior isn't close to the same. It has a touchscreen and also a control knob in the console, it also has buttons and knobs on the dash. You don't ever need to touch the screen unless you want to. Stick with the "interior sucks" if you want as it's an opinion. Not seeing Aveo and please tell me more about how much better the "Ultimate Driving Machine" interior is, they ever figure out steering feel or they give up? -

People complained that in the ATS there wasn't a volume knob (I only use the buttons on the steering wheel as that's where my hands are) and now people complain that there is one on the dash and the console and somehow it bothers them.
Attachment 2526692
Read my post again, manual doesn't have an "idrive" knob.
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      02-11-2021, 08:32 PM   #124
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Read my post again, manual doesn't have a knob.
The only time I use the volume knob in my E90 is to turn off the radio.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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      02-11-2021, 08:35 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
I bought my ATS in 2014 (year old), and it was for the reasons you stated above plus the lower initial price and the long term lower maintenance/repair costs. I've now had it for almost 7 years and very few problems, it has a basic 320 hp V-6, and I think the chances of an expensive problem are extremely low. My plan is to keep it as a basic daily driver and buy an additional weekend car. I don't see enough benefit in my near perfect 65k mile car to write a $50k check (plus trade) on a new car.

My favorite is coming to this forum to learn more about how the BMW (Ultimate Driving Machine) has the better interior and how important this should be to me.
If my E90 would have given up the ghost when the ATS was out somewhere between 2013 and 2018, I'd have bought one. The chassis was in a different league than the F30 and even the E90 is some respects. I was very close on a 2018, but IMO the 6-sp auto was better than the 8-sp.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 02-13-2021 at 08:57 AM..
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      02-12-2021, 07:13 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
Read my post again, manual doesn't have an "idrive" knob.
Ok, for some functions you will have to touch the screen if you get the manual.

M5 doesn't have to worry about it as they don't have a manual. If you are cross shopping the CT5 Blackwing automatic with others it's a non issue and if you want a manual you have to decide which is more important, the manual or touching the screen for some items. Seems reasonable for the "enthusiast" and none of the rest will get the manual anyway.

Regardless of the model the screen is not the same, and there is a volume knob and a long row of buttons, both limiting how much you touch the screen regardless of the model you pick. I doubt I would use the knob, same reason I don't want a separate mouse or controller when using a tablet.
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      02-12-2021, 07:42 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
Read my post again, manual doesn't have an "idrive" knob.
Ok, for some functions you will have to touch the screen if you get the manual.

M5 doesn't have to worry about it as they don't have a manual. If you are cross shopping the CT5 Blackwing automatic with others it's a non issue and if you want a manual you have to decide which is more important, the manual or touching the screen for some items. Seems reasonable for the "enthusiast" and none of the rest will get the manual anyway. I think it would be rare to use the knob to navigate through the screen when I could just touch what I wanted.

Regardless of the model the screen is not the same, and there is a volume knob and a long row of buttons, both limiting how much you touch the screen regardless of the model you pick. I doubt I would use the knob, same reason I don't want a separate mouse or controller when using a tablet.
I'm fine with the touchscreen personally. Would really only need it for Apple CarPlay. Still have a volume and tuning knob, physical HVAC controls, and all the drive controls are located on the steering wheel. I'm just glad they didn't put all the HVAC controls in the infotainment like so many other brands are.
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      02-12-2021, 10:43 AM   #128
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do we have weights? exterior design is not for me
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      02-12-2021, 10:47 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth 330i View Post
do we have weights? exterior design is not for me
CT4 is under 3900lbs
CT5 is slightly above 4100lbs

Cadillac hasn't mentioned the difference in weight between the Manual and Auto models, as well as the upcoming Magnesium Wheels that will be offered eventually.
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      02-12-2021, 10:56 AM   #130
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So, the Configurator isn't even up yet, all slots are spoken for, and there's a waiting list?

Long live the MT!
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      02-14-2021, 10:33 AM   #131
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I'm on the waiting list even though I see zero sign of Supercruise being an option; and this car violates my rule against the tacky-ass center stripe on the steering wheel. I'll likely bail but I'm here for now.
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      02-14-2021, 10:37 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
In case you thought this car would option cheaply:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...ckwings-price/
It could be worse... that stuff could be mandatory standard equipment and make the base price wayyy higher. At least they kept the cost of admission low and let you spec it how you want.
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