[Obioban]

I've been enjoying the i3 as a DD, for 100-120 miles/day, far more than I expected to.

That said, this spring we're going to move, and my commute will go down to ~15 miles/day... and my wife's will be going up to ~40 miles/day, so she'll be taking over DDing the i3.

Simultaneously, I've noticed the i8 values have gone down stupidly fast.

Which leads me to my question-- thoughts on using a used i8 as a DD? Seems like most of my commute would be in it's EV range, and when I came upon a fun road I could burn some gas. If they're reasonably reliable, seems like it might combine the best of both worlds for not very much money.

I'm not expecting Toyota/Lexus reliability-- prior to the i3 I've been DDing M cars for 17 years, 2 of which are now rapidly approaching 200,000 miles.

Side note: I don't find getting into or out of it to be a deal breaker PITA, so that's not really a concern for me in DDing it.

Semi related side question: any chance of small children (just getting into forward facing) fitting behind average height wives in the i8?

[clu7ch]

I daily and have a forward facing car seat in mine. It's not too bad. I would make Sure it has warranty though

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by clu7ch

I daily and have a forward facing car seat in mine. It's not too bad. I would make Sure it has warranty though

Why’s that, specifically?

Seems like the i8 combines an electric engine (one moving part-- should be reasonably reliable) and module battery, where you can replace just the bad cell, with an economy car (mini) gas engine (should be cheap to repair or replace). What's the significant repair that could bite me out of warranty?

[Leto1701]

You need to be aware that the old i8 is really almost a different car. The batteries are half the size and really it's not much fun to drive in EV mode. Suspension changes, BMW connected changes, etc. That's the flipside of the low prices for the old ones combined with some early adopter flaws in the electric drive train, an absurdly expensive controller for that with some heat issues, etc.

If you are aware of that the cheap old i8s are great fun. If you can get a deal on a 11 kWh new model you can't go wrong. Except you need more than cabin size luggage in the car

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Leto1701

You need to be aware that the old i8 is really almost a different car. The batteries are half the size and really it's not much fun to drive in EV mode. Suspension changes, BMW connected changes, etc. That's the flipside of the low prices for the old ones combined with some early adopter flaws in the electric drive train, an absurdly expensive controller for that with some heat issues, etc.

If you are aware of that the cheap old i8s are great fun. If you can get a deal on a 11 kWh new model you can't go wrong. Except you need more than cabin size luggage in the car

What suspension changes?

Don't really care about the connective changes whatsoever... unless carplay is limited to before or after.

Our i3 is a 33kwh car, so the later i8 is 1/3 the battery

I wasn't expecting the i8 to be fun in EV mode-- I'd use it for driving that wasn't fun.

By what year do we think the early adopter flaws were worked out? I'm not in a hurry in the slightest (would be adding this as a 6th car to the fleet), so waiting for the right car/year isn't an issue.

[Mr Squarekins]

I bought my i8 as a daily driver. Other than thinking a little more carefully about where I park, it makes every commute an enjoyable experience.

[stressdoc]

Love my 2019 i8 as a dd when I can't ride my bike. IMO if you can find a used 2019 for 100k that is the best bargain. Some of the leasehacker deals great for lease. Coupe has room for kids in back seat.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Love my 2019 i8 as a dd when I can't ride my bike. IMO if you can find a used 2019 for 100k that is the best bargain. Some of the leasehacker deals great for lease. Coupe has room for kids in back seat.

Seems like a couple years older gets you 98% of the same experience for 50% of the price (and 50% of the potential depreciation.

[Leto1701]

Originally Posted by Obioban

What suspension changes?

Don't really care about the connective changes whatsoever... unless carplay is limited to before or after.

Our i3 is a 33kwh car, so the later i8 is 1/3 the battery

I wasn't expecting the i8 to be fun in EV mode-- I'd use it for driving that wasn't fun.

By what year do we think the early adopter flaws were worked out? I'm not in a hurry in the slightest (would be adding this as a 6th car to the fleet), so waiting for the right car/year isn't an issue.

The new model is easy to recognize from the less deep vents in the hood. Or any roadsters that didn't exist before the model changes. Not sure if there are new 18s but all new 19s should really be new.

The old i8 suffered even more from heavy understeer, especially in EV mode with only FWD. I drove both, the difference is really big. And in terms of EV range it's not 98% with the old models but 50%. The old was also fun to drive in sports. But in the hybrid modes the ICE kicked in all the time.

And then the usual suspects like tanks not opening, heat issues with the electronics, etc. The entertainment system is also significantly updated and e.g. indexes my 400GB FLACs very quickly and only once. Don't go near Apple devices so can't talk about that.

I decided against the old i8 'couple years ago and as clearly for the roadster now.

[stressdoc]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Seems like a couple years older gets you 98% of the same experience for 50% of the price (and 50% of the potential depreciation.

Any i8 is incredible. I got the 'perfect' (for me) i8 at a good price, relatively good value. 4 years, unlimited mileage warranty was important. Pricing is close, about 10k/year, but of course a newer car retains more resale; I'm planning on waiting for the 'next' in 2022 or 23.

[patsgarageonline]

I daily drive my i8 and it's been very reliable. I bought it in Feb 2019 with 10,500 miles and as of now, it has 26,500 miles on it. I'll likely reach 20,000 miles of personal use after a year of ownership.

I have a 35 mile round trip commute and see 50+ MPG on those days. I frequently attend cars and coffee, rallies, etc. and typically see 35 MPG on those days due to the highway driving over distance. I bought it before the factory warranty ran out and had the following items replaced under warranty:

-Oxygen Sensor which was throwing a Check Engine Light
-Head Unit because it got stuck in a rebooting loop (center display)
-Door Struts because they should have replaced them before it sold (CPO car)
-Rocker Panel because a technician stepped on it by accident and I discovered it
-Plastic clips that hold interior door leather because they were failing
-LED light strip in driver's side door because technician broke it servicing door
-iDrive wouldn't work because technician failed to reconnect iDrive after repairing door
-Windshield developed a stress crack from center of glass at roof line, and branched towards the A Pillars (happened to a few i8's here and some others were not covered under warranty)

After the factory warranty expired, I had to take it in under CPO warranty for service:

-Oil leaking from Turbo Housing - replaced gasket
-Low Coolant Level displayed on center console while coolant tank showed no issue - replaced coolant tank, sensor and wiring

Current issues that I probably will not have repaired:

-Plastic "bellows" that surround the piston rods in the struts are deteriorating and exposing piston rods to the elements ($4,000+ repair at dealer due to labor)

Besides that, I have done the following work myself to the car:

Oil changes every 5,000-6,000 miles
Spark Plug change at 25,000 miles
Replace stock tires with Continental DWS06 (+30mm wider -5% profile, all around)
Installation of Aftermarket Paddle Shifters
Installation of OEM front splitters and rear spoiler
Installation of Aftermarket Side Skirts by Edo Motorsport
Modified the mid-engine covers by cutting holes, installing glass, installing carbon fiber and re-upholstering
Preventive Maintenance replacement of the rear deck lid spring and plunger (pivot)

I always keep a T-20 torx driver in the car in order to get to the fuse panel as well as swap out the rear deck lid spring and pivot if it cracks (known issue). I keep extra fuses and a replacement spring and pivot in the glove box.

There are other things that are concerning about the car. On cars built for the US, making sure that you don't bump the emergency trunk release inside the trunk, or it may put some pressure on the mechanism that pops the trunk, leaving your trunk locked. Also, the fuel pressure sensors have failed, resulting in the fuel door staying locked. You'd have to get into the trunk to pull an emergency release to unlock the fuel door if this happens, but if you pull too hard, you'll break it.

I decided to create a YouTube channel to share How To information as well as Vlogs. I'll be updating it with information often. It may help you better decide if the i8 is right for you. I plan on doing videos discussing tire options, bleeding the brakes, and a few other things I've learned about the car after many months of ownership.

https://www.youtube.com/patsgarageonline

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by patsgarageonline

I daily drive my i8 and it's been very reliable. I bought it in Feb 2019 with 10,500 miles and as of now, it has 26,500 miles on it. I'll likely reach 20,000 miles of personal use after a year of ownership.

I have a 35 mile round trip commute and see 50+ MPG on those days. I frequently attend cars and coffee, rallies, etc. and typically see 35 MPG on those days due to the highway driving over distance. I bought it before the factory warranty ran out and had the following items replaced under warranty:

-Oxygen Sensor which was throwing a Check Engine Light
-Head Unit because it got stuck in a rebooting loop (center display)
-Door Struts because they should have replaced them before it sold (CPO car)
-Rocker Panel because a technician stepped on it by accident and I discovered it
-Plastic clips that hold interior door leather because they were failing
-LED light strip in driver's side door because technician broke it servicing door
-iDrive wouldn't work because technician failed to reconnect iDrive after repairing door

After the factory warranty expired, I had to take it in under CPO warranty for service:

-Oil leaking from Turbo Housing - replaced gasket
-Low Coolant Level displayed on center console while coolant tank showed no issue - replaced coolant tank, sensor and wiring

For a not very old car with 26,500 miles on it, that sounds like a TON of issues to me. I don't have anywhere near that many issues on my approaching 200,000 mile M cars that see lots of HARD (track) use. Our i3, in our 20,000 miles of DD use (45,000 total miles), has had zero issues.

What model year is your car?

Originally Posted by patsgarageonline

On cars built for the US, making sure that you don't bump the emergency trunk release inside the trunk, or it may put some pressure on the mechanism that pops the trunk, leaving your trunk locked.

I always remove those from my cars, anyway. If I put someone in the trunk, I want them to stay there!

... and they're ugly and pointless.

[patsgarageonline]

Originally Posted by Obioban

For a not very old car with 26,500 miles on it, that sounds like a TON of issues to me. I don't have anywhere near that many issues on my approaching 200,000 mile M cars that see lots of HARD (track) use. Our i3, in our 20,000 miles of DD use (45,000 total miles), has had zero issues.

What model year is your car?

Mine is a 2015 model that was owned by the dealership owner prior to going up for sale at his dealership. He primarily used it while on vacation, so it was like new compared to the other i8's I drove to see between Pittsburgh, Philly and N. VA when I was shopping around. I checked out 13 different i8's in person prior to selecting mine.

Compared to many other i8 posts I've read about, I seem to be "better than the norm" compared to some of the significant issues I've read about. The technology on this car is bleeding edge, regardless of it being just a hybrid with a 3 cylinder. So, you have to go into ownership realizing that you may get into a very expensive, disabling condition and you can't fix it yourself.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by patsgarageonline

Mine is a 2015 model that was owned by the dealership owner prior to going up for sale at his dealership. He primarily used it while on vacation, so it was like new compared to the other i8's I drove to see between Pittsburgh, Philly and N. VA when I was shopping around. I checked out 13 different i8's in person prior to selecting mine.

Compared to many other i8 posts I've read about, I seem to be "better than the norm" compared to some of the significant issues I've read about. The technology on this car is bleeding edge, regardless of it being just a hybrid with a 3 cylinder. So, you have to go into ownership realizing that you may get into a very expensive, disabling condition and you can't fix it yourself.

The reliability of yours, from what you said, is not at a level I'd find acceptable. That said, I am a strong believer in not buying the first model year or two of anything... which yours is. BMW loves to have tons of small updates/revisions to parts that they find to be failure prone once people start driving the cars in the real world-- I wonder how newer examples compare.

I'm more comfortable than most working on cars, but it does seem like the i8 reaches a point where that isn't possible. My wife DDs an M3 converted wagon (engine/trans/diff/subframe/seats/cluster/etc-- not just engine), I've rebuilt BMW M engines, reflashed ecus, machined my own suppression components, coded modules, etc... but the i8 does seem like it might be a step beyond shade tree mechanic beyond basic tasks.

My hope was that it was more or less i3 (EV drivetrain) + mini (ICE drivetrain) levels of reliability... a little bit better on the ICE side, as the ICE engine gets run less/mile, but a little bit worse because of the increased complexity, averaging out to a normal car.

[patsgarageonline]

Originally Posted by Obioban

The reliability of yours, from what you said, is not at a level I'd find acceptable. That said, I am a strong believer in not buying the first model year or two of anything... which yours is. I wonder how newer examples compare.

I'm more comfortable than most working on cars, but it does seem like the i8 reaches a point where that isn't possible. My wife DDs an M3 converted wagon (engine/trans/diff/subframe/seats/cluster/etc-- not just engine), I've rebuilt BMW M engines, reflashed ecus, machined my own suppression components, coded modules, etc... but the i8 does seem like it might be a step beyond shade tree mechanic beyond basic tasks.

My hope was that it was more or less i3 (EV drivetrain) + mini (ICE drivetrain) levels of reliability.

I agree that mine is an early model, but these issues are not only common to many owners, but they are also not isolated to the 2014-2016 pre-LCi cars. I would have hoped that the LCi models would have had significant changes other than increased battery power, a few extra HP and appearance changes. I spent a lot of time in RealOEM and very few parts have been deprecated. Overall, either BMW thinks these cars are reliable enough or they don't want to invest any more money into the platform trying to increase reliability.

Just one example: One of my most recent videos shows how to replace the spring and plunger (pivot) on the i8 trunk. I had some folks on another i8 forum report that theirs broke within the first week of ownership on a 2019 model year. Mine never broke. But, they're all susceptible to stress and breakage. BMW has not improved the part, and while it may cost $20 for you or I to replace, if it fails on the road without a backup piece ready to install, you're stuck parking your i8 and would have to wait for about 2 weeks if you want the dealer to replace it under warranty because i8 parts aren't typically stocked at local dealerships. It's cause a lot of anger with i8 owners, so I'm trying to use those as lessons learned.

It's great that you have mechanical background, as do I. I don't usually look at a job as too big. It's just a machine. But, the computer controls too many parts that must work in sync. One user on this forum put his car in storage during winter weather, just like he did the year before, but upon pulling the car out of storage this year, he had multiple errors and and multiple systems failed. It had to be escalated to BMW in Germany, and they suggested that many major components had to be replaced because they couldn't determine the root cause. Can someone with mechanical background do that work? Of course. Do you have the money to do it? Is it really worth it? Those are the questions you need to ask yourself before you get behind the wheel of this car.

Some things that alarmed/surprised me after I bought this car. There is no starter on the flywheel, it's belt driven and it has it's own water cooling circuit keeping it cool. It also doubles as a generator for charging the batteries, so it's under load in two directions requiring a tensioner that rocks two different ways. If you want to change an accessory belt, you have to deenergize the battery, drain the cooling circuit to the starter/generator, remove the electronic module that is connected to the starter/generator, then unbolt the starter/generator in order to ease tension on the belt to replace it. It's likely a weekend job and I will have to go through a process to vacuum bleed the coolant because the radiators (4 of them) are in the front of the car. Is this doable? Absolutely. Is it potentially costly, including leaving room for error and mistakes? Absolutely. Would I still do it myself? Yes. If it breaks down and disables with a drivetrain error on the side of the road requiring a rollback, would I have them take it to my house so I could diagnose it myself without the aid of the BMW special diagnostic equipment? Likely no.

I would still own this car and still work on it myself, and hope you do the same, but hope you also take the time to understand what you're getting into before assuming it's just like an i3 because it's far from it.

[Obioban]

I think you've talked me out of the car

We had an e9X a while back, and I ended up selling it primarily because I despised working on it compared to BMW's earlier cars (it no longer felt as if it was designed with ease of service in mind). Sounds like the i8 is a step further in that direction.

[patsgarageonline]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I think you've talked me out of the car

We had an e9X a while back, and I ended up selling it primarily because I despised working on it compared to BMW's earlier cars (it no longer felt as if it was designed with ease of service in mind). Sounds like the i8 is a step further in that direction.

I certainly didn't want to talk you out of it. In fact, it would be awesome being able to exchange thoughts, ideas and experiences with you on this car. That said, if you do consider one, I would look for a CPO car with warranty.

A 2015 just sold at Otto's this weekend to a guy I know from NYC, and it had the CPO wrap warranty, which meant 3 years total CPO on the car after warranty expired! It was a great deal for under $65k. I drove by the dealership to look at it before he bought it to recommend he had them correct a few things or work on a better deal. They had another one there with the Turbine wheels that I liked but was turned off by some of the rust on the hubs/lug bolts.

[stressdoc]

My thoughts on i8 reliability: I got a CPO 2019 with 4 years/unlimited mileage warranty. There are a number of improvements that were significant to me; most notably, the car handles better in comparison w earlier models. Big data indicate that reliability of i3 and i8 are similar and about average, but a number of repairs are more costly.

A brief word on the trunk glass pivot. If it fails (i.e., plastic tube shatters), a simple temporary fix is to attach a piece of duct tape to the glass so you can pull it up after releasing latch. I recommend putting a piece of rubber on the impact spot to prevent shattering in the first place.

I repeat my opinion that the i8 is my favorite BMW. The 2002s were much easier to work on myself. But that was a long time ago. Cars are complex now and I have too many demands on my time; I let the experts (techs) do the complex repairs. That said, I also repeat my opinion that BMW would have done well to have produced a very light, relatively simple Z2M. Same logic as when I suggested the mini might work in the USA for BMW... but even the mini has now gotten complex and heavy.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

My thoughts on i8 reliability: I got a CPO 2019 with 4 years/unlimited mileage warranty. There are a number of improvements that were significant to me; most notably, the car handles better in comparison w earlier models. Big data indicate that reliability of i3 and i8 are similar and about average, but a number of repairs are more costly.

Which data are you referring to?

[patsgarageonline]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

My thoughts on i8 reliability: I got a CPO 2019 with 4 years/unlimited mileage warranty. There are a number of improvements that were significant to me; most notably, the car handles better in comparison w earlier models.

That's an important comparison that I couldn't make because I haven't driven anything newer than a 2016. The way I corrected the oversteer on my i8 was to go with 30mm wider tires on stock rims and now it feels perfect. But, for those unaware, it's important that they know this info that you posted.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by patsgarageonline

That's an important comparison that I couldn't make because I haven't driven anything newer than a 2016. The way I corrected the oversteer on my i8 was to go with 30mm wider tires on stock rims and now it feels perfect. But, for those unaware, it's important that they know this info that you posted.

Turner used the upper control arms from the F10 5 series on their i8, to add 0.5 degress of negative camber, to increase front grip/decrease understeer.

What did BMW change on the suspension of the 2019 to reduce it? From my test drive, my initial inclination would be that the best way to go about it would be a softer front sway. The car felt like it had too little front roll, but I can't really say that without knowing how much total front bump travel it has to play with. It felt like they had maybe designed the car around people that think a car being flat in corners is a good thing

[Ranchroundel]

Just my two cents: I had a 2016 coupe that I traded in with 23,000 miles in June of 2019. At that time I bought a 2019 roadster. Given our higher than normal snow fall this year, I have only put about 3,000 miles on it so far.

For both of these cars I have never had any non-maintence/recall visits to the dealership. That, absolutely nothing has gone wrong with either car over the four years I have owned i8s.