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      03-16-2019, 11:13 PM   #23
mrod81
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I was going to get the Model 3 until I stumbled on the i3...I bought a 2016 Rex with every available option except leather and I paid 17500 OTD...the Tesla bare bones came to 38500 OTD...I could've bought 2 i3's!The Tesla is definitely a looker on the outside but the i3's interior beats the model 3 hands down. For going to work and back this was a no brainer. If/when the Tesla's go to lease then maybe, till then I love this little car.
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      03-18-2019, 09:59 AM   #24
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you are talking USED prices vs NEW
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      03-18-2019, 11:20 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baldyloxx View Post
you are talking USED prices vs NEW
That's correct.
Good eye
He's also going from a lease to a purchase. For purchase I wouldn't buy it new for lease definitely. If Tesla leased the 3 I would've got that over the USED i3 until then a USED i3 is a better deal.
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      03-21-2019, 08:52 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
As far as the range, I agree, if you primarily want range, the i3 is not the car to be looking at. However, the Bolt is FWD, and the i3 is RWD, and it is a much better driving experience at least in my opinion. I also appreciate the slightly more upscale interior of the i3 (very slight).
I also test drove the Leaf, eGolf, and Bolt, before settling on the TM3.
Both Leaf and Bolt interiors are a step down from i3. TM3 interior is in the world of its own.

One thing that bothered me about Bolt was the driver's seat. I never got physically comfortable sitting on it. Either the padding is too soft, or the metal frame is too close to the surface, but I could feel the frame around the perimeter of the bottom cushion. Like sitting on a well-padded toilet seat. Just weird.


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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I commute 80 miles a day and I have a L2 charger at home. I don't really need 200 miles, so why pay for it?
I am in the same camp, yet paid up for LR TM3 ;-)
Yeah, I could have picked up a cheaper SR TM3 with ~220 mile range, but it did not have all the other features I want, so ~310 miles it is.

My work commute is ~35 miles both ways, yet I had put 20.5K miles on the i3 during the 24 month lease. So figure 28 miles/day on average, including days when we don't drive that car, so maybe 2x that on the days when we do.

Thing is, I use the car for more than just work commute. Some days I drive kids to after school activities. Others, I need to go on Home Depot runs, movies, etc. The ~115 mile i3 range is plenty for everyday commuter use-case, but once winter comes here in NE, it drops to ~80 miles. And 3 or 4 times my remaining range was down to sub-10 miles when I pulled into the garage. One time it was 2 miles, and I hit limp mode.

I could have avoided the 2 mile range remaining event by doing a better job of projecting my daily driving requirements and not taking the i3 to work that day. Or I can have a car with much longer range, and not worry about any of this.

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      03-23-2019, 09:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baldyloxx View Post
Considering either Model3 or ModelY as next Vehicle. BMW is an excellent brand when it come to product content and quality in general.. But they seriously dropped the ball when it comes to progressing the i Line..

Hopefully the iNext fills the void.. We shall see
After a week and 350 miles with TM3P, all I can say is - wow!
The handling, the acceleration, and interior experience have exceeded the expectations.
For all practical purposes, this car should be compared to an ///M3, it just also happens to be electric.

The interior touch-screen is remarkably convenient and intuitive. Now when I get into an ///M3, its tiny UI screen, over-abundance of buttons, and silly iDrive roller make its interior look painfully dated. It's hard to describe how much that TM3 touch-screen dates traditional car interior and legacy user interfaces.

The only favorable comparison point vs. an i3 is that i3 is smaller.
If you need a tiny city car, i3 will be easier to maneuver and park.

A few initial observations that leave room for improvement:
  • TM3 is larger than it first appears. I know it's a strange comment to make, since one can easily look-up TM3's width and length, but it looks way smaller than it really is. Partly due to the super low ride height, and also low metal waistline and tall greenhouse of the Tesla (///M3 looks like a cross-over when you are sitting in TM3).
  • ///M3 seats have better side-bolsters and are overall better than TM3's. TM3 seats are not bad (certainly way better than i3's), but not as supple and cool looking as ///M3's.
  • TM3 Performance suspension is aggressive (whatever I test drove earlier, definitely didn't have it). Firmer than ///M3's comfort mode (if you have adjustable suspension), and roughly similar to Sport mode or ///M3's non-adjustable suspension. I love it, but many will complain that it's too rough for post winter pot ridden streets. Perfect on the highway.
  • TM3's "track mode" turns off the autopilot. I know that makes some sense to someone, but I like the aggressive regen braking of "track mode", and its traction control, and it's a PITA having to choose between the two.


HTH,
a
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      03-24-2019, 10:54 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by baldyloxx View Post
Considering either Model3 or ModelY as next Vehicle. BMW is an excellent brand when it come to product content and quality in general.. But they seriously dropped the ball when it comes to progressing the i Line..

Hopefully the iNext fills the void.. We shall see
After a week and 350 miles with TM3P, all I can say is - wow!
The handling, the acceleration, and interior experience have exceeded the expectations.
For all practical purposes, this car should be compared to an ///M3, it just also happens to be electric.

The interior touch-screen is remarkably convenient and intuitive. Now when I get into an ///M3, its tiny UI screen, over-abundance of buttons, and silly iDrive roller make its interior look painfully dated. It's hard to describe how much that TM3 touch-screen dates traditional car interior and legacy user interfaces.

The only favorable comparison point vs. an i3 is that i3 is smaller.
If you need a tiny city car, i3 will be easier to maneuver and park.

A few initial observations that leave room for improvement:
  • TM3 is larger than it first appears. I know it's a strange comment to make, since one can easily look-up TM3's width and length, but it looks way smaller than it really is. Partly due to the super low ride height, and also low metal waistline and tall greenhouse of the Tesla (///M3 looks like a cross-over when you are sitting in TM3).
  • ///M3 seats have better side-bolsters and are overall better than TM3's. TM3 seats are not bad (certainly way better than i3's), but not as supple and cool looking as ///M3's.
  • TM3 Performance suspension is aggressive (whatever I test drove earlier, definitely didn't have it). Firmer than ///M3's comfort mode (if you have adjustable suspension), and roughly similar to Sport mode or ///M3's non-adjustable suspension. I love it, but many will complain that it's too rough for post winter pot ridden streets. Perfect on the highway.
  • TM3's "track mode" turns off the autopilot. I know that makes some sense to someone, but I like the aggressive regen braking of "track mode", and its traction control, and it's a PITA having to choose between the two.


HTH,
a
Re: Track Mode

Is the aggressive regen braking designed to feel like engine braking?

And since I've never asked, is the TM3 a single speed like the i3?
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      03-25-2019, 01:16 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Re: Track Mode

Is the aggressive regen braking designed to feel like engine braking?

And since I've never asked, is the TM3 a single speed like the i3?
TM3 is indeed single fixed gear, like the i3. Thus the maximum speed is limited to 162 or 165mph.
The extra aggressive regen braking, on the front axle only, was introduced in track mode to counter-act turn-in understeer.

It also works when decelerating in straight line. Between the rear axle regen braking as usual, and front axle in extra-aggressive regen braking mode, the TM3P slows down noticeably quicker than i3 does.
I don't think it was meant to simulate engine braking, but it kinda has that effect. And I like it.

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      03-25-2019, 01:43 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
TM3 is indeed single fixed gear, like the i3. Thus the maximum speed is limited to 162 or 165mph.
The extra aggressive regen braking, on the front axle only, was introduced in track mode to counter-act turn-in understeer.

It also works when decelerating in straight line. Between the rear axle regen braking as usual, and front axle in extra-aggressive regen braking mode, the TM3P slows down noticeably quicker than i3 does.
I don't think it was meant to simulate engine braking, but it kinda has that effect. And I like it.

a
How does that effect trail braking out of a corner? It sounds like it would make transitioning from braking to acceleration a bit more difficult. Or does it stop regen after hard brakes?

Either way, it's a good way to affect the driving characteristics of the car, but I'm not sure how it would feel on a real track.
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      03-25-2019, 02:13 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
How does that effect trail braking out of a corner? It sounds like it would make transitioning from braking to acceleration a bit more difficult. Or does it stop regen after hard brakes?
Sounds like it does exactly that:
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-mode...-circuit-test/
https://electrek.co/2018/11/08/tesla...rformance-how/


Here is a summary of many of the features we employ with Track Mode while you’re on the track:

Motor Torque for Rotation Our Vehicle Dynamics Controller constantly monitors the state of the vehicle and all of the inputs from the driver to determine the driver’s intention and affect the rotation of the car in a matter of milliseconds. Track Mode relies heavily on the front and rear motors to control the car’s rotation, and we have the ability to command a 100% torque bias. When cornering, if rotation is insufficient to the driver’s request, the system commands a rear biased torque. Conversely, when rotation is excessive, we command a front biased torque.

Increased Regenerative Braking Heavy regenerative braking may not be comfortable for day-to-day driving, but on a track, it has several key advantages. It gives the driver more authority with a single pedal, improves the endurance of the braking system, and sends more energy back into the battery, maximizing the battery’s ability to deliver large amounts of power. It also gives the Vehicle Dynamics Controller more authority to create or arrest rotation with the motors when your foot is lifted off of the accelerator pedal.

Track Focused Powertrain Cooling The high output power required for track driving generates a lot of heat, so endurance on the track requires more aggressive cooling of the powertrain. We proactively drop the temperatures of the battery and the drive units in preparation for the track and continue to cool them down in between drive sessions. We can also allow operation of the powertrain beyond typical thermal limits and increase our refrigerant system capacity by overclocking the AC compressor into higher speed ranges.

Enhanced Cornering Power We typically think of using brakes to slow down a car, but you can actually use them to make the car faster out of a corner. All Model 3s are equipped with open differentials, which send an equal amount of torque from the motors to both the left and right wheels. When cornering, the wheels on the inside of the corner have less load on them, which means they can provide less tractive force than the outside wheels. To prevent excess slip on this inside tire, we have to limit the torque for both wheels, leaving power on the table. In Track Mode, we simultaneously apply brake and motor torque to produce a net increase in tractive force while cornering. This is similar to how a limited slip differential works, except when using the brakes, the differential can be optimized for various driving conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Either way, it's a good way to affect the driving characteristics of the car, but I'm not sure how it would feel on a real track.
Only one way to find out ;-)

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