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      01-19-2020, 02:43 AM   #2993
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Tesla stock is on all time high..
sure now its time to see some bad news..
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      01-19-2020, 09:09 AM   #2994
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having sat in a tesla many times(friend who is an IT guy owns one) is that mostly you need to have a lot of money and not a lot of sense to buy one.
The interior was horribly spartan. The ride was ok. The inconvenience of charging/lugging cables etc along is terrible.
For most people whose budget for a car is sub 20k electric options would be downgrades in terms of comfort performance and convenience.
This isn't comparable to Walmart and Amazon. Amazon is cheaper and convenient for the customers Walmart wasn't tesla isn't chesper to buy or convenient for the customers conventional cars are
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      01-19-2020, 11:04 AM   #2995
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Originally Posted by King_Leonard View Post
Of course. How stupid of WeWorks' investors.
ENR, WCOM, TYC, HealthSouth, FRMC, AIG, LEH etc. Next up TSLA.
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      01-20-2020, 01:57 AM   #2996
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Unless you can drive 400 miles on 5 minutes charge, an electric car is just a novelty. It's the future but not the immediate future. It's still heavy and extremely expensive and still takes far too long to charge. Even getting 100+ miles on 15 minutes charge is much too long. It still can't tow like a gasoline or diesel vehicle. (See Engineering Explained video) It has poor range in cold weather; wasting its battery on cabin heat. A combustion engine gets heat as a by product for free.

The e-Tron is even worse, it's horribly expensive, not that quick and has a poor range.

The infrastructure isn't there. There are still multiple types of plugs that don't fit each other. Every company is trying to push their own system and not cooperating with anyone else. Tesla has more charger but it doesn't work for other make. Audi and Porsche are trying to do the same.

Face it, a basic Tesla Model 3 is close to $50K whereas an average hybrid is half that price. For $25K you can drive over 500K miles! When will you ever see a return in your investment in an electric car? Tax incentives are going away too.
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      01-20-2020, 09:14 AM   #2997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRS_SN View Post
having sat in a tesla many times(friend who is an IT guy owns one) is that mostly you need to have a lot of money and not a lot of sense to buy one.
The interior was horribly spartan. The ride was ok. The inconvenience of charging/lugging cables etc along is terrible.
I wasn’t sure how I felt about the interior when I placed my order...within a week I loved the simplicity of the interior. And now with the voice control...it’s one button to set/change climate control, music ie.. Even opening and closing my garage door doesn’t require any buttons or interaction with the screen. I drive away and it automatically closes the garage door when I pull away from a set distance. When I arrive at home as I pull into the driveway and get closer to the garage it automatically opens the garage. Driving our other cars...I have to remember to press the home link button...simple thing you say. Absolutely but it’s little things like that make a difference in daily driving.

As far as inconvenience of lugging cables around. Not sure what your coworker has setup at home. But I installed Tesla’s wallcharger at home and keep the mobile charger in my trunk. Have even taken an 1800 mile road trip, couple 300-400 mile family vacations, hand full of 300 mile one day ski trips. In the past 16months haven’t touched the charger in my trunk once.
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      01-20-2020, 09:27 AM   #2998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboawdfanatic View Post
I wasn’t sure how I felt about the interior when I placed my order...within a week I loved the simplicity of the interior. And now with the voice control...it’s one button to set/change climate control, music ie.. Even opening and closing my garage door doesn’t require any buttons or interaction with the screen. I drive away and it automatically closes the garage door when I pull away from a set distance. When I arrive at home as I pull into the driveway and get closer to the garage it automatically opens the garage. Driving our other cars...I have to remember to press the home link button...simple thing you say. Absolutely but it’s little things like that make a difference in daily driving.

As far as inconvenience of lugging cables around. Not sure what your coworker has setup at home. But I installed Tesla’s wallcharger at home and keep the mobile charger in my trunk. Have even taken an 1800 mile road trip, couple 300-400 mile family vacations, hand full of 300 mile one day ski trips. In the past 16months haven’t touched the charger in my trunk once.
Our car doesn't leave the city, so we never carry the charging cable with us. But even if we did, don't see how it's more intrusive than having jumper cables with you. Not sure why it would be a big deal at all.
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      01-20-2020, 09:28 AM   #2999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenXer View Post
Unless you can drive 400 miles on 5 minutes charge, an electric car is just a novelty. It's the future but not the immediate future. It's still heavy and extremely expensive and still takes far too long to charge. Even getting 100+ miles on 15 minutes charge is much too long. It still can't tow like a gasoline or diesel vehicle. (See Engineering Explained video) It has poor range in cold weather; wasting its battery on cabin heat. A combustion engine gets heat as a by product for free.

The e-Tron is even worse, it's horribly expensive, not that quick and has a poor range.

The infrastructure isn't there. There are still multiple types of plugs that don't fit each other. Every company is trying to push their own system and not cooperating with anyone else. Tesla has more charger but it doesn't work for other make. Audi and Porsche are trying to do the same.

Face it, a basic Tesla Model 3 is close to $50K whereas an average hybrid is half that price. For $25K you can drive over 500K miles! When will you ever see a return in your investment in an electric car? Tax incentives are going away too.
All valid points. Change is coming, and as I've said many times I don't think it's going to happen as fast as many hope and in fact I don't think it can happen with any speed from a production point of view, both on the vehicle side and the infrastructure side. I'm not sure the mining of the materials for the batteries can happen fast enough (not really green either) if there was a fast update, and then the infrastructure to support massive uptake in demand to charge.....picture pulling into a freeway to charge (fast charge is what 15 min), and there is 10 cars ahead of you for the charging station.....and then there is this other fact that folks just don't seem to be buying them.
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      01-20-2020, 10:20 AM   #3000
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hmmm....simplicity of the interior... you are right on that one much like being in a budget vauxhall or skoda. Its just not a luxurious place and my mrs and mother in law will tear me to shreds if i asked them to sit inside one.
we go together in his car to tennis/badminton courts etc. He gets out takes his blue cable thing plugs it into the charger at the centre.
Sometimes it is raining heavy or snowing and watching him do that is painful.
He keeps the temperature inside the car low n cool and also you have to ask to get seat heating switched on.
Minor inconveniences perhaps.
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      01-21-2020, 08:08 AM   #3001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRS_SN View Post
hmmm....simplicity of the interior... you are right on that one much like being in a budget vauxhall or skoda. Its just not a luxurious place and my mrs and mother in law will tear me to shreds if i asked them to sit inside one.
we go together in his car to tennis/badminton courts etc. He gets out takes his blue cable thing plugs it into the charger at the centre.
Sometimes it is raining heavy or snowing and watching him do that is painful.
He keeps the temperature inside the car low n cool and also you have to ask to get seat heating switched on.
Minor inconveniences perhaps.
I guess luxury is in the eye of the beholder. One of my ysl sneakers are some of the simplest looking sneakers I have.
I’ve charged at the mall/movie theatre a couple times since it’s free...certainly doesn’t require lugging out a cable though. But only time I’ve gotten out to plug my car in the elements, other than the comfort of my garage, is on long road trips. That’s why I asked what kind of charging he has set up at home if anything, because it sounds like what he’s doing is unnecessary. From what you say about the cabin temp and seat warmers....sounds like he’s just stingy. Nothing to do with the car.

Last edited by turboawdfanatic; 01-21-2020 at 09:02 AM..
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      01-21-2020, 08:21 AM   #3002
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This "green" company is cutting down trees to build a factory.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-giga...-tree-cutting/
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      01-21-2020, 12:38 PM   #3003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Leonard View Post
Of course. How stupid of WeWorks' investors.
Yes. Calling them stupid would be charitable.
WeWork was hyped up by Softbank's stupidity. That CEO got fired.
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      01-21-2020, 12:40 PM   #3004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
This "green" company is cutting down trees to build a factory.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-giga...-tree-cutting/
Building cars in a tent was already hard enough. Building cars in tree-houses is nearly impossible. So, trees must be cleared. Sad, but do they want jobs or not?
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      01-21-2020, 12:43 PM   #3005
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hahaha. this company is run so poorly. think how far long they would be if they had proper management and did not have rapid board member and executive turnovers.
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      01-22-2020, 05:25 AM   #3006
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hahaha. this company is run so poorly. think how far long they would be if they had proper management and did not have rapid board member and executive turnovers.
I think Tesla will be fine.

Sorry for the Apple news link. Sleepy.


https://apple.news/AaLhMyKyjT6a5TNDbC3kBBw
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      01-22-2020, 07:17 PM   #3007
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EV Blog Admits: Tesla's "Autopilot Will Probably Not Stop For Service Vehicles Parked In Lanes Of Traffic"

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology...s-parked-lanes
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      01-22-2020, 07:41 PM   #3008
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In Scotland you get a £35000 interest free grant that you repay over over 6 years. £800 free grant for home charger installation and £3500 off the cost of a new EV and 0 road tax etc
Im a hard core ICE BMW fan but the subsidies are so amazing that i may be tempted. Without the above subsidies i wouldn't give EV a look
Socialism or capitalism im confused here. The market is skewed.
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      01-22-2020, 07:51 PM   #3009
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Originally Posted by KRS_SN View Post
In Scotland you get a £35000 interest free grant that you repay over over 6 years. £800 free grant for home charger installation and £3500 off the cost of a new EV EV and 0 road tax etc
Im a hard core ICE BMW fan but the subsidies are so amazing that i may be tempted. Without the above subsidies i wouldn't give EV a look
Socialism or capitalism im confused here. Rhe market is skewed.
This is the only way EV's have any chance of going mainstream in other than the predictable markets. Ontario was giving $14K rebate and the new government cut it off. Sales dropped to almost nothing.
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      01-23-2020, 08:03 AM   #3010
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Interesting article in the National Post this morning.

Yes, Tesla's created demand for electric cars — but only for Teslas
A glut of new electrified models are set to hit the market over the next decade, but there likely won't be enough buyers for all of them to survive

by KEITH NAUGHTON | 4 HOURS AGO

Tesla’s stock is soaring, and traditional auto manufacturers are staging glitzy presentations of new plug-in models. You’d think the electric-vehicle age was finally dawning.

But so far, Tesla is the only car company looking likely to benefit in the coming years. Look at every other corner of the U.S. auto industry, and a more ominous picture emerges.

A top American executive for Toyota, whose market value is still more than double Tesla’s even after Elon Musk’s epic run, recently warned of electric-car catastrophe. Auto retailers caution growth will be slow, citing still-high battery costs and range constraints. And far more U.S. shoppers are willing to kick the tires on a hybrid than cars that only plug in.

The cause for concern remains as EVs start to appear in showrooms in greater numbers. The models on the market will swell almost sevenfold to 121 models in the next half-decade, from 18 now, according to LMC Automotive. But the researcher sees all those vehicles claiming just 5.5 per cent of U.S. sales in 2025.

“We’re going to see electrified Armageddon,” Bob Carter, Toyota’s executive vice president of North American sales, told reporters in December. “Supply is going to get ahead of true customer demand.”

There is irony, of course, in Carter predicting an EV reckoning just as Tesla was wrapping up a record year. The dim view he holds is not unique among legacy automakers, which have spent more than a century building and selling cars that burn fossil fuel. But that cautious mindset is rooted in pragmatism — profits remain elusive in the high-cost, high-price EV business.

That’s why Toyota and other automakers have been reluctant to dive head-first into EVs until they’re closer to reaching price parity with internal combustion engine vehicles, which Bloomberg experts predict will happen around 2024.

EV sales are expected to grow to be roughly the size of the shrinking mid-size car segment by mid-decade, to about 934,000 units, LMC says. But whereas the meager family sedan market will be split between just 13 models, the researcher expects there to be more than nine times as many EVs fighting for air.

Young Canadians less likely to buy a car, but more likely to go EV: survey
Thanks to its hot-selling Model 3 sedan, Tesla accounted for nearly eight-in-10 EV sales in America last year. By 2025, LMC sees Tesla offering seven models that will account for a quarter of segment sales. That would leave the 114 competing offerings from other automakers averaging annual sales of 6,145 per model, or about 118 units a week.

“Tesla has created the market by having a mystique,” said Art St. Cyr, the head of American auto operations for Honda, pointing to Musk’s Model 3. “If Honda, Toyota, GM or Ford made that vehicle, we probably wouldn’t sell them in those numbers.”

Honda, Ford and Toyota, which all have a history of selling hybrids, see them prevailing for the time being because mainstream buyers continue to suffer “range anxiety” — the fear of being stranded by running out of juice in an EV.

“People are not generally willing to pay more to be inconvenienced,” St. Cyr said.
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      01-23-2020, 06:35 PM   #3011
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I don't really care much for the whole ICE vs EV debate. I will buy whatever I can afford and gives me the most enjoyable driving experience. EV or ICE doesn't really matter to me.

What has me worried more, and I think this is mostly a Dutch/European problem, is where the hell we're going to get all the electricity from and how we're going to pay for it.

Nuclear is a big taboo over here and gas is the devil. Our cars should be electric. Cooking? Electric. Heating? Electric. Cooling? Electric. Yet the power grid is already having a hard time keeping up as I understand it and the government keeps raising the "energy tax" on electricity.

What is going to happen when people get home from work at 5pm and plug their EV onto the power grid and turn on the electric heating and start cooking using electricity?

Now as for Tesla specifically, I dont care for the brand. Tesla owners (yes, generalization), tend to be insufferable obnoxious tossers. I also don't like my tax money being spent on subsidies so people can become insufferable obnoxious tossers. People don't give a shit about the environment. They only care about the fat subsidies and their moral superiority complex.

That said, if BMW ever releases something like an EV that's just as fun as my 235i.... Bring it on!
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      01-23-2020, 09:21 PM   #3012
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Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets View Post
Tesla owners (yes, generalization), tend to be insufferable obnoxious tossers.
...
On behalf of myself and all the other the insufferable obnoxious tossers of the world, it really hurts that you would compare us to Tesla owners.
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      01-23-2020, 10:53 PM   #3013
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That said, if BMW ever releases something like an EV that's just as fun as my 235i.... Bring it on!
like the rwd i3 that is rapidly approaching a 4 digit used price point?
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      01-24-2020, 09:03 AM   #3014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets View Post
I don't really care much for the whole ICE vs EV debate. I will buy whatever I can afford and gives me the most enjoyable driving experience. EV or ICE doesn't really matter to me.

What has me worried more, and I think this is mostly a Dutch/European problem, is where the hell we're going to get all the electricity from and how we're going to pay for it.

Nuclear is a big taboo over here and gas is the devil. Our cars should be electric. Cooking? Electric. Heating? Electric. Cooling? Electric. Yet the power grid is already having a hard time keeping up as I understand it and the government keeps raising the "energy tax" on electricity.

What is going to happen when people get home from work at 5pm and plug their EV onto the power grid and turn on the electric heating and start cooking using electricity?

Now as for Tesla specifically, I dont care for the brand. Tesla owners (yes, generalization), tend to be insufferable obnoxious tossers. I also don't like my tax money being spent on subsidies so people can become insufferable obnoxious tossers. People don't give a shit about the environment. They only care about the fat subsidies and their moral superiority complex.

That said, if BMW ever releases something like an EV that's just as fun as my 235i.... Bring it on!
Further along your thoughts, government makes a boatload of money from gas tax, this money in Canada anyway is supported to go to road building and other transportation infrastructure. If ICE goes away and is replaced by EV's what will replace the lost tax revenue? I'm going to suggest that the price of electricity is going to go up, way up.
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