[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Even with sufficient safety protocols and measures in place, it's all to no avail if someone capable of overruling those screws up.

Attachment 3213095

Exactly and this was just on the say so and some convincing words that skipped a small problem(s) that were there with Titan which were brushed under the carpet and the cause may never even be revealed because of the many pieces of wreckage.
The first thing was radio silence then failure of the automatic 'back to surface' return so I'm guessing it was a sudden power fail that rendered the craft completely immobile. Was it using lithium batteries...

[zx10guy]

The second video from Kyle Hill has a video clip showing what an implosion looks like and it was only a 1 ATM implosion. Imagine that at what? 400x.

[///MPhatic]

1 atmospheric pressure (14.7 psi). The sub supposedly imploded at around 6,000 psi.

[dscabra]

A point that hasn't really been discussed much in this thread is the current climate of "disruption" we are seeing in a lot of specialty engineering disciplines. Disruption is the name of the game in trying to come up with innovative and less costly ways of doing things that have been well-established in past years. We celebrate success, but then point to the old tried and true methods when something goes wrong. I'm not saying that what happened was acceptable. I think more testing and peer reviewed scrutiny of the engineering should have been done before taking tourists to the Titanic, but I do understand the desire to break the mold and explore new ideas.

[nazali]

Like the Titanic, until these things happen nothing changes.

Don't know if this was mentioned on 5 or so odd pages, but you have a privileged few, an elite paying mega bucks to go gawk at a graveyard. Sorry that's my POV, I am honestly not touched or have any empathy. I think BOB said it gracefully on his interview about this and the refugee boats.

I remember recently the disaster when a boat in the english channel was going down and neither English NOR French were too interested and were paying pass the buck "not our jurisdition!"

Yet you take one narcissist and 4 billionaires and the whole world looses there mind.

The ONLY person I do feel sorry for is the kid, I read somewhere he was absolutely scared stiff, and only went because of his Dad,

You can imagine that conversation, "Jnr, suck it in and grow a set,were going down and that's it"

One saving grace is they didn't know they were dead.

But honestly, millions die all over the world and for the most part no-one gives a toss.

Sorry, I was following this story but I believe that company should be sued into the stoneage

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by floridaorange

"more people have been to outer space than this depth of the ocean"

The thought is there, but it's incorrect. It actually should be "more people have been to near earth orbit than this depth of the ocean." The Titanic sits at 2.4 miles below the surface (12,500 feet). The space station orbits at 250 miles above the earth, and that's near earth orbit. Outer space would be moon travelers, and there have only been 24.

Originally Posted by nazali

...an elite paying mega bucks to go gawk at a graveyard.

Everyone has their thing, some people are into bird watching, so who is to say which hobby is better than the other? No one.

Originally Posted by nazali

Sorry that's my POV, I am honestly not touched or have any empathy. I think BOB said it gracefully on his interview about this and the refugee boats.

There is room in most people's empathy tank to reflect on them all, and since there is none left in yours, enjoy the Bimmerpost ignore feature.

[Artemis]

Compare with this tragedy - it was none of the crew member's fault.

State-of-the-art tech, but unfortunately not flawless: the Columbia space shuttle disintegrated during re-entry during its 28th mission (mission STS-107). Science evolves.

Last moments on board, with crew member Laurel Clark remaining rather talkative and upbeat (Feb 1, 2003). She films the flames outside and queries what those are supposed to be. Pilots reassure her that it might be some plasma. But subsequently they notice that the flames surrounding the cockpit intensify: "This is amazing, it's really getting, uh, fairly bright out there" and "Yep, yeah, you definitely don't want to be outside now". A few seconds or minutes later they all perished. Heart-breaking.

[floridaorange]

Originally Posted by Tyga11

What's the comparison with Kobe?

Being super successful and admired by so many - but then also not listening to those who know more about aviation/visibility and as a result not only killing themselves but others and their children as a result. The Stockton character was a big risk taker evidently, Kobe's pilot's accident was more of a surprise in a sense. My sister in law was working out next to him at Equinox the day before he died, he just came to mind regarding successful + deadly risk taking resulting in killing his own and others in the process. To me that's an extra big blindspot in ones ego to make such a costly mistake and being that high profile of a person, you'd think they would know better.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Even with sufficient safety protocols and measures in place, it's all to no avail if someone capable of overruling those screws up.

[nazali]

I think the main beef, is at least with NASA, they really don't try and make short cuts and there is a lot of accountability and certifications. There's a lot of science a lot of capable engineers and a lot of tried and testing methods including destruction.

Mind you Nasa is a $bill funded (is it gove'ment funded anymore ?) There is big money in it.

Have NASA taken short cuts or done things they should not have yes for sure. But it is very much not a case of "best guess" but a calculated guess.

To hear someone talking about breaking rules because "HE" didn't think it was worth it also to cut costs. I ain't going to rehash stuff experts have said.

But when those accidents happened, it was very rare and I think 1 or 2 mistakes happened, with this sub, EVERYTHING was wrong and they were also WARNED COUNTLESS times and they IGNORED IT and even FIRED whistleblowers.

3 yahoo henry's on a tourist trip with a kid in tow. in an UNTESTED , EXPERIMENTAL sub and they had to sign waivers with death mentioned in it countless times.

I don't think the astronauts did that ? did they ?

ALSO the other thing for me, is the space mission's are totally different from a a romp to see a graveyard. Your pushing the envelope engaging in research for the benefit of mankind.

Thoes men and women sitting on millions of pounds worth of TNT are fecking Heroes. The servicemen and women who go underwater, fly in the air, the researchers doing the same, is a TOTALLY different case for me.

EVEN if you could say "it's a first" were pushing boundaries, were explorers.

For sure the accident was NOT the fault of the PASSENGERS, it was the narcissistic fool Stockton Rush, who thought he could cut corners and make some money. Be a hero in his own mind, ignored the people who knew better, ignore the people who said it was downright dangerous.

5 people died , funny how many stories have since come out on "I didn't go thought it was a bad idea, very dangerous" LOL

In other news "People smuggler admits manslaughter of 39 Vietnamese migrants found dead in lorry in Essex"

Originally Posted by Artemis

Compare with this tragedy - it was none of the crew member's fault.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by floridaorange

Being super successful and admired by so many - but then also not listening to those who know more about aviation/visibility and as a result not only killing themselves but others and their children as a result. The Stockton character was a big risk taker evidently, Kobe's pilot's accident was more of a surprise in a sense. My sister in law was working out next to him at Equinox the day before he died, he just came to mind regarding successful + deadly risk taking resulting in killing his own and others in the process. To me that's an extra big blindspot in ones ego to make such a costly mistake and being that high profile of a person, you'd think they would know better.

The pilot had more to do with the crash than Kobe. I worked the LA basin (LAX specifically) for many, many moons. I listened to the tape and watched the replay more than once (though not recently). Kobe may or may not have had getthereitis, but the pilot could've/should've climbed vertically to get out of the muck (the tops were pretty low, IIRC). Why he went full speed ahead toward higher terrain in the clouds (rotor-wing rules are different than fixed-wing) is beyond me. Also, why didn't he get flight following before he did? He was too low for radar tracking when he finally did call, and then it was too late.

[zx10guy]

James Cameron brings forward the first I've heard of acoustic sensors placed on the hull of the Titan to monitor for any potential failure of the carbon fiber. In college, I took a composites class where we went through the process of laying up an I beam type structure that was going to placed under a bending moment. It was a very enlightening experience laying down the carbon fiber sheets, pouring on the epoxy resin, and then vacuum bagging the part placed in an autoclave to cure it.

During the destructive stress test, you can clearly hear the fibers letting go in the carbon fiber. It wasn't quiet. You can hear it over the noise of the Instron stress tester we used. And when it let go, it wasn't gradual. It was similar to a cannon shot. Shards of composite material went everywhere. We had plexiglass barriers placed around the test apparatus for good reason.

James Cameron said the fact the ballast weights were dropped....he thinks they heard something that caused them alarm before the implosion. Which is another terrifying thought.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

James Cameron said the fact the ballast weights were dropped....he thinks they heard something that caused them alarm before the implosion. Which is another terrifying thought.

James makes several interesting points in the video, especially those about the known issues of a CF hull, and the weights being dropped. Thanks for the link.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

In college, I took a composites class where we went through the process of laying up an I beam type structure that was going to placed under a bending moment. It was a very enlightening experience laying down the carbon fiber sheets, pouring on the epoxy resin, and then vacuum bagging the part placed in an autoclave to cure it.

I believe that composite pressure vessels and pipes/tubes are wound over a mandrel from a long fiber strand before bagging and baking, but don't quote me on this since I'm not 100% positive.....

[DrFerry]

Concluding video:
.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

I believe that composite pressure vessels and pipes/tubes are wound over a mandrel from a long fiber strand before bagging and baking, but don't quote me on this since I'm not 100% positive.....

The class I took was focused on theory. But with my limited experience, I agree with you that a mandrel or form would have to stay in place as the epoxy for the carbon fiber is cured in the autoclave under vacuum. Thinking through how critical it is to ensure there are no air bubbles in the matrix of the carbon fiber, makes me think that making a 5" thick tube the size of what was used for the Titan makes it even more critical. I have no idea how they're able to have a process that ensures this.

[vreihen16]

I would imagine that the process is similar to this:

.

[zx10guy]

If this leaked transcript of the text messaging between the Titan and the Polar Prince are true, the five of them had to deal with 20 minutes of shear terror in realizing they were in deep trouble. The transcript also supports the speculation they had an early warning something was wrong with the pressure vessel and they tried to abort the dive by dumping ballast. Of note from this video is the rate of their decent being too fast and their ascent was too slow after dumping ballast.