[JustChris]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

You are making this very simplistic and not in a good way.

If you want to compare the I4 M50 to a M3P. Is it heavier? Yes.

Tesla has a platform that is lighter but also has less battery protection than most other EV. Tesla also uses less premium (low end) materials. BMW has more features and amenities than a Tesla.

BMW also has much better quality than a Tesla.

But you mention tech. Tesla does not have superior tech.

1. Motor tech? Nope BMW has 5th generation electrically excited motors with no rare earth materials.

2. BMW has adaptive regeneration and GPS and ADAS integration. Tesla does not

3. BMW has hands free driving (traffic jam). Tesla does not.

The list goes on.

If you prefer Tesla then great, but just because a M50 isn't modeled after a Tesla doesn't make it an inferior product

I would argue that it would be rare to have a BMW fail a quality inspection at delivery. It's not rare to have a Tesla fail a basic paint and panel gap inspection at delivery. My best friend rejected 3 cars before she got a car that was good enough to take delivery. This just doesn't happen with BMW.

You get what you pay for. Sometimes you get less.
A Tesla is not a car I would ever buy. I don't like Tesla and tactics of discontinuing trim levels after you have ordered and try to push you into a higher trim level. I don't like the fraudulent marketing of FSD that will never be FSD.

Many good point about #3 isn't true.

[Al Pinã]

If only BMW was granted billions in government subsidies….maybe they could compete with the God Elon.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by SINasTER

Considering it's an electric, it's not that impressive. I was hoping for something better than that and closer to the tesla.

Closer to Tesla?? Why does everyone insist on looking at wet pavement numbers?? One of the most experienced testers, Brook from Dragtimes already claimed the i4 as the new midsized EV dragstrip king.

3.39 sec 0-60 mph, (3.1 with roll out)
113mph in the 1000ft
11.74 sec qtr mile decelerating through at 108mph.

He stated it should be an easy 11.4 second car.
And yes, he owned a Model 3P and Plaid.

View post on imgur.com

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Many good point about #3 isn't true.

What isn't true?

Traffic Jam assist does not require hands on wheel for BMW. It will auto brake and accelerate up to 40 mph.
Driver has to be aware but a camera monitors the driver.

There is absolutely no mode for Tesla where hands free driving is a thing.

[Robert]

Sure if BMW can translate this technological adavnce to real world factors such as 25% faster than Model 3 performance and longer range then I will get BMW next (Not like I never owned BMWs) Testers have only got 186 range out of the i4M50. Keep in mind you are comparing a 2018 car against 2022 MY.

My money goes to the best product, either company can die for all I care. Never going to defend mega corps who already got my money.

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

You are making this very simplistic and not in a good way.

If you want to compare the I4 M50 to a M3P. Is it heavier? Yes.

Tesla has a platform that is lighter but also has less battery protection than most other EV. Tesla also uses less premium (low end) materials. BMW has more features and amenities than a Tesla.

BMW also has much better quality than a Tesla.

But you mention tech. Tesla does not have superior tech.

1. Motor tech? Nope BMW has 5th generation electrically excited motors with no rare earth materials.

2. BMW has adaptive regeneration and GPS and ADAS integration. Tesla does not

3. BMW has hands free driving (traffic jam). Tesla does not.

The list goes on.

If you prefer Tesla then great, but just because a M50 isn't modeled after a Tesla doesn't make it an inferior product

I would argue that it would be rare to have a BMW fail a quality inspection at delivery. It's not rare to have a Tesla fail a basic paint and panel gap inspection at delivery. My best friend rejected 3 cars before she got a car that was good enough to take delivery. This just doesn't happen with BMW.

You get what you pay for. Sometimes you get less.
A Tesla is not a car I would ever buy. I don't like Tesla and tactics of discontinuing trim levels after you have ordered and try to push you into a higher trim level. I don't like the fraudulent marketing of FSD that will never be FSD.

[spool twice]

the BMW i4 M50 has gotten higher than 186miles in range tests on UK cold streets on reviews.

In this test where the M3P is compared to an i4 M50

https://www.elbil24.no/pro/test-tre-...elser/75109027

25 percent Highway, rest is secondary roads and a little bit City :
Temperature -6 Celsius (21.2*F)

BMW i4 M50 - 380 kilometer (236 miles)
Tesla Model 3P - 405 kilometer (252 miles)

Difference looks to be 15-16 miles from each other on that test. I'm sure there are others, however 186 miles is the lowest I've seen on an i4 M50 in cold weather.

The two are closer in #'s on the road, the BMW simply is astonishing with that 100-200kph time and the Tesla is more nimble/responsive in feel.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Robert

Sure if BMW can translate this technological adavnce to real world factors such as 25% faster than Model 3 performance and longer range then I will get BMW next (Not like I never owned BMWs) Testers have only got 186 range out of the i4M50. Keep in mind you are comparing a 2018 car against 2022 MY.

My money goes to the best product, either company can die for all I care. Never going to defend mega corps who already got my money.

In real world test in 0-60 there are equivalent.
25% advantage/faster. At sub 3 seconds the performance differences are really reaction time differences.

For roll on from 60 it looks like the M50 walks a M3P.
That's a real world test for passing on the highway.

I have owned lots of BMWs, Dodge, Mini, Chrysler, Ford and based on my experience and how I drive I prefer BMW.

The only reason to compare a TM3P to an i4 M50 is price and straight line performance. When you start looking at build quality, quality of materials along with repair support and customer experience when a problem does occur; BMW outshines Tesla and they aren't even in the same ballpark.

To be honest the fit, finish and quality of a TM3 is surpassed by my Chevy Bolt.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

In real world test in 0-60 there are equivalent.
25% advantage/faster. At sub 3 seconds the performance differences are really reaction time differences.

For roll on from 60 it looks like the M50 walks a M3P.
That's a real world test for passing on the highway.

I have owned lots of BMWs, Dodge, Mini, Chrysler, Ford and based on my experience and how I drive I prefer BMW.

The only reason to compare a TM3P to an i4 M50 is price and straight line performance. When you start looking at build quality, quality of materials along with repair support and customer experience when a problem does occur; BMW outshines Tesla and they aren't even in the same ballpark.

To be honest the fit, finish and quality of a TM3 is surpassed by my Chevy Bolt.

You are a point there on the build material. Personally it's not a huge deal because my car will be rotated out every 3-4 years. What is also surprising so far is reviews saying Tesla is more maneuverable and the M50 is more like a GT.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Robert

You are a point there on the build material. Personally it's not a huge deal because my car will be rotated out every 3-4 years. What is also surprising so far is reviews saying Tesla is more maneuverable and the M50 is more like a GT.

I usually keep cars for a full decade.

For me.build quality means a lot.

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Considering it actually looks like a conventional ICE vehicle, in- and outside, I will gladly take this over Tesla or any other toy-like looking EV.

While an iPad with 2 electric motors secured by duct tape may be lighter and faster, it's unlikely to provide driver focused experience behind the steering wheel. i4 is a transitional vehicle yet a very good one.

Needless to say, BMW is fully aware that it i4 needs to evolve with an eye on the competition.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

What isn't true?

Traffic Jam assist does not require hands on wheel for BMW. It will auto brake and accelerate up to 40 mph.
Driver has to be aware but a camera monitors the driver.

There is absolutely no mode for Tesla where hands free driving is a thing.

He probably means in the context of i4. You are mentioning features of next level autonomy but in a car range that only comes with "driving assistant professional " which is lane and speed assistance in the i4. It very definitely has a hands on wheel timer, 6 seconds I believe.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

While an iPad with 2 electric motors secured by duct tape may be lighter and faster...

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by spool twice

the BMW i4 M50 has gotten higher than 186miles in range tests on UK cold streets on reviews.

In this test where the M3P is compared to an i4 M50

https://www.elbil24.no/pro/test-tre-...elser/75109027

25 percent Highway, rest is secondary roads and a little bit City :
Temperature -6 Celsius (21.2*F)

BMW i4 M50 - 380 kilometer (236 miles)
Tesla Model 3P - 405 kilometer (252 miles)

Difference looks to be 15-16 miles from each other on that test. I'm sure there are others, however 186 miles is the lowest I've seen on an i4 M50 in cold weather.

The two are closer in #'s on the road, the BMW simply is astonishing with that 100-200kph time and the Tesla is more nimble/responsive in feel.

In this distance test against a Taycan and M3P, the M50 didn't fare so well. 400 wh per mile is not good for a 'car'. The heavy Polestar 2 SUV cross is more efficient than that.

M50 buyers….do not go for those 20" wheels.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

In this distance test against a Taycan and M3P, the M50 didn't fare so well. 400 wh per mile is not good for a 'car'. The heavy Polestar 2 SUV cross is more efficient than that.

M50 buyers….do not go for those 20" wheels.

Definitely stick to the 19" for range.

In the test above, I was surprised at how little range was lost in the weather he tested compared to EPA estimates. He also predicted about 250 miles real world in summer months which to me isn't a bad trade off consider the i4 M50 overall isn't as efficient and the EPA rated it at 227 miles for the 20" wheel model.

If we apply the same 10% to the 19" model, that could mean 300 miles of real world range with what looks to be mostly highway driving in summer months.

Bummer that the battery charge test wasn't more eveningly tested where the Taycan and i4 weren't pre-conditioned, but he says he will try to retest in the summer month's so looking forward to his results.

His comments about the i4 handling was pretty favorable, heavier albeit agile for its weight and will rocket out of corners. The acceleration delay is a bit odd though, but he did state the acceleration was brutal once the car picked up and shoots forward.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

He probably means in the context of i4. You are mentioning features of next level autonomy but in a car range that only comes with "driving assistant professional " which is lane and speed assistance in the i4. It very definitely has a hands on wheel timer, 6 seconds I believe.

ETJAS - Extended Traffic Jam Assist is hands free and pedal free. Does not have a timer. Looks at drive with the camera mounted at the top of the instrument cluster.

Good for up to 40 mph in stop and go traffic.
Yes it's in the.options but so is FSD.

My comment was not on what a.specific car has but what options you can get.

When someone says that Tesla has better tech I tend to call them out because I worked in development of redundant CPUs for auto and also ASAS and ISO26262 (ASIL A-D). Tesla has hyped something they can never deliver.

They will not be able to deliver hands off ADAS because they have 8 cameras; three forward up high, two on each side facing forward, two on each side facing rearward and a single rear facing camera.

No redundancy in the cameras pretty much negates hands free.

BMWs cameras are redundant with radar as a backup.

Anyway, details, details.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Closer to Tesla?? Why does everyone insist on looking at wet pavement numbers?? One of the most experienced testers, Brook from Dragtimes already claimed the i4 as the new midsized EV dragstrip king.

3.39 sec 0-60 mph, (3.1 with roll out)
113mph in the 1000ft
11.74 sec qtr mile decelerating through at 108mph.

He stated it should be an easy 11.4 second car.
And yes, he owned a Model 3P and Plaid.

View post on imgur.com

I'd love to see this AutoTopNL redo this on a fully charged i4 M50 to see if that 100-200kPh would improve.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by SINasTER

How many cameras are on a bmw?

Because the 2021 I tested had 6 if my memory serves me right. Never saw more than that on a bimmer

BMW has camera in the windshield, front bumper, rear , mirrors but also has five radar sensors; one at each corner and forward facing.

[GOLFFRR]

i was hoping it was going to be a little faster

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by GOLFFRR

i was hoping it was going to be a little faster

Me too, but it's too porky.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by SINasTER

Sorry but the 2021 I tested didn't do that, I had to at least touch the wheel every 30-45sec while " handsfree "

I don't know what speed you were driving at but the stop start is only available under 40 (no hands/feet). Regular driver assist with hands on the wheel at highway speeds.

Since BMW uses radar driver assist is available at speeds that exceed what Tesla in capable of with camera only.

It's not Super Cruise which works at highway speeds and no hands

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by GOLFFRR

i was hoping it was going to be a little faster

Doesn't seem too far off of a g80 M3 Competition though 100-200kph with this one running 8.16 seconds, not too far off of 8.67. Unless you were talking about 0-100 or 1/4mile, then you can blame a wet surface and grip issues.


https://youtu.be/WKSlN86gH_s

[Accident]

Originally Posted by Robert

Agree, the competition is definitely good. However, I don't think BMW is close to Tesla in tech yet. It has a 83-84 kw battery pack but tesla only has 73-75. Battery pack isn't just fuel tank size on ICE cars. It affects how much energy it can be used. In analogy BMW stuffed a bigger engine into the car, got heavier so it has more power top end but also suffers from shorter range. Sound like detriot stuffing big v8 to keep up with bmw NA i6 in the past.

The Tesla Model 3 LR and Performance come with a 82kwh battery since mid-2020. The i4 has a 83kwh battery pack.

https://electrek.co/2020/11/10/tesla-model-3-82-kwh-battery-pack-new-cells/