[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

ETJAS - Extended Traffic Jam Assist is hands free and pedal free. Does not have a timer. Looks at drive with the camera mounted at the top of the instrument cluster.

Good for up to 40 mph in stop and go traffic.
Yes it's in the.options but so is FSD.

My comment was not on what a.specific car has but what options you can get.

When someone says that Tesla has better tech I tend to call them out because I worked in development of redundant CPUs for auto and also ASAS and ISO26262 (ASIL A-D). Tesla has hyped something they can never deliver.

They will not be able to deliver hands off ADAS because they have 8 cameras; three forward up high, two on each side facing forward, two on each side facing rearward and a single rear facing camera.

No redundancy in the cameras pretty much negates hands free.

BMWs cameras are redundant with radar as a backup.

Anyway, details, details.

You know all Tesla's have FLR (forward looking radar) sensors right? Same Continental ones BMW use.

I4 does not come with driver alert camera, even as an option, so I don't understand why you are going on about next generation BMW hands off features in the context of model 3 vs i4?

All that stuff about redundancy you go on about is nonsense in the context of i4 too. Snow on radar sensor? No adaptive cruise, camera blocked or failed, no adaptive cruise. Both with immediate effect. Maybe stop bigging up the capabilities of BMW i4 cruise control? ….you are starting to sound like Elon.

[4monks]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

You know all Tesla's have FLR (forward looking radar) sensors right? Same Continental ones BMW use.

Starting to phase out from May 2021...
https://www.tesla.com/support/transi...g-tesla-vision

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by Hansn

Once again ill put this out there for the Tesla model 3 vs i4 debate and the weight;

In adittion to being on a shared platform the BMW is built to carry alot more the weight and be crash safe with that weight. It can pull 1600kg trailer on top of that. Its pretty big numbers.

Total legal load including passengers in the Tesla is 388kg including driver/cargo.

Same number for the i4 is 555kg.

These are not race cars in the end, but daily drivers.

The sacrifices Tesla make to get their numbers has been discussed before i guess. But i think this is vital information when arguing that they somehow figured out something thats beyond BMWs engineers.

I think they are better at pushing the limits in ways that are unconventional and beyond BMWs engineers in the sense that german cars have different standards.. Legally carrying four average germans in a five seater being one of them.. 😅

Interesting data points, I never thought of it from that perspective.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by GOLFFRR

i was hoping it was going to be a little faster

I4 M50 is quicker than Model 3P, both from a dig and rolling start. It easily gapped the Tesla from roll because Model 3 really lacks top end power.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by spool twice

Doesn't seem too far off of a g80 M3 Competition though 100-200kph with this one running 8.16 seconds, not too far off of 8.67. Unless you were talking about 0-100 or 1/4mile, then you can blame a wet surface and grip issues.

The M3/M4 are already underrated, yet if you look at the list below with testing done by the same person, the i4M50 beats the lighter 2021 xdrive M4 Convertible in the 100-200, and is only .6 seconds slower than the 1000lb lighter G80 M3 Comp. How is this possible with a nearly 5000lb car? Motor is definitely making some HP. Can you imagine if the i4 M50 weighed 1000lbs less. We would be talking about 130mph+ traps. Well, it might be easier to add 100HP. Bring on the i4M. I wish BMW sold a power kit giving it another 70HP for $2000. Would buy that in a second. You can see the Tesla Model 3P about 69 positions down from the 8.67 time on the list below!

https://autotopnl100-200.com/100-200/

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

You know all Tesla's have FLR (forward looking radar) sensors right? Same Continental ones BMW use.

I4 does not come with driver alert camera, even as an option, so I don't understand why you are going on about next generation BMW hands off features in the context of model 3 vs i4?

All that stuff about redundancy you go on about is nonsense in the context of i4 too. Snow on radar sensor? No adaptive cruise, camera blocked or failed, no adaptive cruise. Both with immediate effect. Maybe stop bigging up the capabilities of BMW i4 cruise control? ….you are starting to sound like Elon.

Tesla has not only stopped building cars with radar but has also disabled the sensor in all cars.

https://www.tesla.com/support/transi...g-tesla-vision

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmo...-self-driving/

You should stop.


You haven't read the.manual for the i4. See the attached picture. Page 153.of the manual, item 3 is the driver alert camera.

You should stop.

As far as.redundamcy in the BMW setup. The radar is redundant to the cameras and vice versa.

In inclement weather the Tesla system is completely blind.

You should do some reading before you come here and tell me I don't know what talking about.

I have worked in automotive safety for years.
I'm certified by both Exida and TÜV for automotive safety practitioner.

Are you done yet?
Don't hurt yourself rolling your eyes.

Before you come for me, know what you are talking about. I know what I'm talking about. It was part of my job for more than 5 years to know auto safety.

[clubsport.m3]

I feel a lot of people are focussing on straight line speed. And whilst that is important, the overall handling and driving dynamics is where I hope BMW will make the difference.

I'm patiently waiting for Chris Harris to have a go at it with the i4 50m or i4M.

[finn123]

Originally Posted by Robert

You are a point there on the build material. Personally it's not a huge deal because my car will be rotated out every 3-4 years. What is also surprising so far is reviews saying Tesla is more maneuverable and the M50 is more like a GT.

Sorry to interrupt you. May I ask what phone you use? The exact model please.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by clubsport.m3

I feel a lot of people are focussing on straight line speed. And whilst that is important, the overall handling and driving dynamics is where I hope BMW will make the difference.

I'm patiently waiting for Chris Harris to have a go at it with the i4 50m or i4M.

It's because the thread is about acceleration and straight line speed sir

but yes a car should be more than about acceleration.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

The M3/M4 are already underrated, yet if you look at the list below with testing done by the same person, the i4M50 beats the lighter 2021 xdrive M4 Convertible in the 100-200, and is only .6 seconds slower than the 1000lb lighter G80 M3 Comp. How is this possible with a nearly 5000lb car? Motor is definitely making some HP. Can you imagine if the i4 M50 weighed 1000lbs less. We would be talking about 130mph+ traps. Well, it might be easier to add 100HP. Bring on the i4M. I wish BMW sold a power kit giving it another 70HP for $2000. Would buy that in a second. You can see the Tesla Model 3P about 69 positions down from the 8.67 time on the list below!

I can't see why they couldn't offer a powerpack, from reading it appears that all i4/iX motors are the same, just with a different state of tune. If not BMW supplying a powerpack, perhaps the aftermarket can somehow tune the rear motor to have the same power as the iX M60 since we already share the same specs on the front motors.

[footie]

Considering the conditions of the road I think the times was decent, a sub 3.5s 0-60mph on a dry road is very possible. Also the 100-200 is actually quicker than they achieved with the new RS6 so again nothing to complain about.

I am looking forward to getting my own hopefully in May.

[GOLFFRR]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

I4 M50 is quicker than Model 3P, both from a dig and rolling start. It easily gapped the Tesla from roll because Model 3 really lacks top end power.

seems to be quicker over 100mph. however how many people are going over that speed around town or HWY? I guess I was being un realistic as to think it would be a electric rocket ship (obv still is as its under 4 sec 0-60). I need to drive it before I make any judgments but I have driven the M3P and its a rocket for normal day to day driving, was hoping the BMW would be a little better thats all. I know I know im being picky

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by spool twice

I can't see why they couldn't offer a powerpack, from reading it appears that all i4/iX motors are the same, just with a different state of tune. If not BMW supplying a powerpack, perhaps the aftermarket can somehow tune the rear motor to have the same power as the iX M60 since we already share the same specs on the front motors.

There are reasons.

1. Motor cooling - we don't know the cooling capacity. The motor will dissipate more heat.

2. Wiring - Can the wiring support more current?

3. Internal resistance of the battery pack - Can it deliver the additional current.

As a EE, I don't know if I'd play around with a tune on an EV. Granted my ICE car was tuned, but I understood more about the drivetrain.

I could increase cooling by swapping a radiator or increasing the size of the oil cooler.

I could add a secondary fuel pump for fuel starvation.

The list goes on. Not sure what would be "safe" for an EV drivetrain. I'll wait and see.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by footie

Considering the conditions of the road I think the times was decent, a sub 3.5s 0-60mph on a dry road is very possible. Also the 100-200 is actually quicker than they achieved with the new RS6 so again nothing to complain about.

I am looking forward to getting my own hopefully in May.

sub 3.5 has already been achieved actually

One tester did it in 3.39 seconds (3.1 with a 1ft rollout), but it was done on a dry 55*F day where road temps aren't exactly ideal either for the best tire grip despite AWD.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

There are reasons.

1. Motor cooling - we don't know the cooling capacity. The motor will dissipate more heat.

2. Wiring - Can the wiring support more current?

3. Internal resistance of the battery pack - Can it deliver the additional current.

As a EE, I don't know if I'd play around with a tune on an EV. Granted my ICE car was tuned, but I understood more about the drivetrain.

I could increase cooling by swapping a radiator or increasing the size of the oil cooler.

I could add a secondary fuel pump for fuel starvation.

The list goes on. Not sure what would be "safe" for an EV drivetrain. I'll wait and see.

Good points, I wonder if the invertor is the same part # as in the iX? Im anxiously awaiting for RealOEM to open up the parts catalog for both cars to compare what is truly different between the 5th generation electric systems.

As for cooling, I'd imagine it would simply be an updated Hx units similar to ICE now since they too use Hx on BEV's.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

There are reasons.

1. Motor cooling - we don't know the cooling capacity. The motor will dissipate more heat.

2. Wiring - Can the wiring support more current?

3. Internal resistance of the battery pack - Can it deliver the additional current.

As a EE, I don't know if I'd play around with a tune on an EV. Granted my ICE car was tuned, but I understood more about the drivetrain.

I could increase cooling by swapping a radiator or increasing the size of the oil cooler.

I could add a secondary fuel pump for fuel starvation.

The list goes on. Not sure what would be "safe" for an EV drivetrain. I'll wait and see.

Polestar recently released an optional performance update which increases the hp of Polestar 2 by 16% (extra 67 hp). It’s like a Stage 1 BM3 tune. So it’s clearly possible.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Polestar recently released an optional performance update which increases the hp of Polestar 2 by 16% (extra 67 hp). It’s like a Stage 1 BM3 tune. So it’s clearly possible.

Just because polestar did it does not mean the BMW system has the same headroom.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Polestar recently released an optional performance update which increases the hp of Polestar 2 by 16% (extra 67 hp). It’s like a Stage 1 BM3 tune. So it’s clearly possible.

Point to note: the M50 has 10 seconds of "boost mode" which adds 67hp, to achieve a total headline figure of 544hp.

That immediately tells you that it can't sustain the full 544hp all the time. Which makes it doubtful that they will bring out a power upgrade.

Don't worry, it is fast enough…..and if it isn't, you are buying the wrong car.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Point to note: the M50 has 10 seconds of "boost mode" which adds 67hp, to achieve a total headline figure of 544hp.

That immediately tells you that it can't sustain the full 544hp all the time. Which makes it doubtful that they will bring out a power upgrade.

Don't worry, it is fast enough…..and if it isn't, you are buying the wrong car.

Hey, it's not me.

It's fast enough.

I was just indicating that unlike an ICE car where a tune can be compensated for by upgrades. A BEV is more of a.closed system where compensating for upgrades is probably not possible.

[NISFAN]

[QUOTE=techwhiz1;28487525]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Hey, it's not me.

It's fast enough.

I was just indicating that unlike an ICE car where a tune can be compensated for by upgrades. A BEV is more of a.closed system where compensating for upgrades is probably not possible.

Sorry I was replying to AlexFL's post which had quoted your post…..which I agree with by the way. EV power depends on the maximum current draw, battery, inverter, motor temperatures, or the weakest link in any of these.

The fact that the M50 isn't rated full time to 544hp means there are most likely heat limitations already at play.

[techwhiz1]

[QUOTE=NISFAN;28487753]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Sorry I was replying to AlexFL's post which had quoted your post…..which I agree with by the way. EV power depends on the maximum current draw, battery, inverter, motor temperatures, or the weakest link in any of these.

The fact that the M50 isn't rated full time to 544hp means there are most likely heat limitations already at play.

Yeah, some things I'm willing to play with.
EV drivetrain isn't one of them.

Also getting more peak power is only good for drag runs. I don't drag my car.

Once you hit 500hp and 500ft-lbs of torque, keeping the tires stuck is a big deal.

I'll also say it again. With the i4 you are going to run out of road before you run out of car.

[spool twice]

Fwiw, the car is in boost mode during the entire LC acceleration run, so 0-140mph. It's just boost mode outside of LC can only be used up to 10 seconds at a time.