[dreamingat30fps]

I dunno about sales, however I was never one to ask for raises either. I just GTFO and went where they paid more. That being said my second to last job that I was at for about 6 years I only got 2 raises, however it was a very easy job, stress free, worked from home 2 days a week and pretty much did whatever I wanted. So I never complained or asked for raises because I started my side business while I was there.

There is a lot to be said about having a job that you don't hate and having the flexibility to work from home or do whatever you need to do. If I went back to a regular job (if I survived the shock) wfh and job flexibility would be above $$ for me.

[billnchristy]

Looking forward to details about the meeting.

[Tommy-G]

Originally Posted by billnchristy

Looking forward to details about the meeting.

Me too, I want to know if the boss splurged for top shelf or rail specials

[OkieSnuffBox]

I'm in a slightly different situation.

Based on the things I do, my base should be higher. Typically what they do is give the high performers a small raise every other year and with a chunk of RSU's. I feel that my base should be $10-15k/yr more than it is now. But I don't really have much leverage, unless I can start getting other remote offers with equal health benefits (fiance has RA, which if any of you or a family member have it, know the meds are INSANELY expensive and we pay nothing for them).

For what I do, I basically have the best gig in the area. Moving to a larger city would mean a DRAMATICALLY higher cost of living (that would essentially wipe out a higher salary) and more people. Neither of us really wants that.

I need to find a really competent technical recruiter, to really help me get my resume and LinkedIn tuned up. Like an actual recruiter, not the dopes that are just spamming out application links to anyone with a few keywords from my LinkedIn page.

[rebekahb]

I met with the owner. Earlier in the conversation he mentioned that he couldn't have diversified or expanding without us bringing in the money we did. I told him I wanted to speak with him about a raise. I asked him if manager had spoke with him about it and he said no.

I mentioned being there for 7 years, how much I've grown financially (specific numbers) and mentioned the 7.2% (salary & commission) I currently receive. I also discussed industry standards. He was open and said that I've have done very well and it's not something he had thought of. He said that he's been very proud of what I've don't and I've been instrumental in growing the business. He said he would look everything over and get back with me. I don't really know how I feel about it. I asked and it's a wait and see.

I'll keep y'all updated as I hear back. He didn't give me a timeline of when I would hear from him. Thanks again for the advice!

[beachBmmr]

Originally Posted by rebekahb

I met with the owner. Earlier in the conversation he mentioned that he couldn't have diversified or expanding without us bringing in the money we did. I told him I wanted to speak with him about a raise. I asked him if manager had spoke with him about it and he said no.

I mentioned being there for 7 years, how much I've grown financially (specific numbers) and mentioned the 7.2% (salary & commission) I currently receive. I also discussed industry standards. He was open and said that I've have done very well and it's not something he had thought of. He said that he's been very proud of what I've don't and I've been instrumental in growing the business. He said he would look everything over and get back with me. I don't really know how I feel about it. I asked and it's a wait and see.

I'll keep y'all updated as I hear back. He didn't give me a timeline of when I would hear from him. Thanks again for the advice!

Put a time limit on the discussion, tell him you need an answer in 2 weeks because you have outside interest. People need deadlines.

If you haven't already, read chris voss book n negotiation. In sales its very useful

[Watching The World Burn]

Originally Posted by rebekahb

I met with the owner. Earlier in the conversation he mentioned that he couldn't have diversified or expanding without us bringing in the money we did. I told him I wanted to speak with him about a raise. I asked him if manager had spoke with him about it and he said no.

I mentioned being there for 7 years, how much I've grown financially (specific numbers) and mentioned the 7.2% (salary & commission) I currently receive. I also discussed industry standards. He was open and said that I've have done very well and it's not something he had thought of. He said that he's been very proud of what I've don't and I've been instrumental in growing the business. He said he would look everything over and get back with me. I don't really know how I feel about it. I asked and it's a wait and see.

I'll keep y'all updated as I hear back. He didn't give me a timeline of when I would hear from him. Thanks again for the advice!

Kudos. You did it, might not have been comfortable, but you did it anyway. If I could give you one more piece of advice for future meetings it would be to close it off by suggesting a time to reconvene to discuss it (a reasonable time frame - say a week or two to give him time to look over) but then he has a time frame that he's working towards in his mind and it becomes a priority on his to do list. Wish you the best!

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by rebekahb

I met with the owner. Earlier in the conversation he mentioned that he couldn't have diversified or expanding without us bringing in the money we did. I told him I wanted to speak with him about a raise. I asked him if manager had spoke with him about it and he said no.

I mentioned being there for 7 years, how much I've grown financially (specific numbers) and mentioned the 7.2% (salary & commission) I currently receive. I also discussed industry standards. He was open and said that I've have done very well and it's not something he had thought of. He said that he's been very proud of what I've don't and I've been instrumental in growing the business. He said he would look everything over and get back with me. I don't really know how I feel about it. I asked and it's a wait and see.

I'll keep y'all updated as I hear back. He didn't give me a timeline of when I would hear from him. Thanks again for the advice!

Nice work!

Now the power move would have been to follow up on his comment about your manager not filling him in on your need for a raise with "That's disappointing, though not surprising. Let's face it, we all know X is a bit out of his depth as a manager. Have you considered making a change there? I've proven my competence and value to the company and love a new challenge..."

All jokes aside, it is concerning to me that the owner seemed to have the detailed knowledge of your contributions to the company yet no knowledge of your compensation and had "not thought of" a raise for you. This sounds like a small company where the owner is pretty involved. I'm not sure I buy his supposed ignorance to your comp. Based on his comments about raises not adding to his bottom line, I think he's playing you a bit. the whole "I'll take it under advisement and get back to you" bit seems like a stall tactic.

Now, you've got some politicking to do. You asked your manager for a raise and he lied about looking into it. You just went direct to his boss with the same request and uncovered your manager's lie. If the owner has a convo with your manager about your request, your manager now knows that you know, that he sucks. Depending upon how the owner has that convo with your manager it could also put your manager in a tough spot. Despite his lackluster job performance, you need your manager on your side for this one. You dont need him feeling shut out, overrun, and out of the loop. You need to sit down with him and fill him in on the convo with the owner and pump his stupid ego up: "So our owner asked me to dinner the other night and our convo turned to compensation and performance. I outlined the growth and revenue I've brought to the company and explained that a motivating factor for me was the autonomy I am given under your leadership. It allows me to operate as I see fit and despite not having had a raise since 2015, my operating arrangement with you is one of the reasons I've stayed. But that can only go so far. I dont want you to be blindsided by this but the opportunity was there to continue the compensation discussion you and I have had previously so I took it. He was receptive and I'm sure he'll be reaching out to you. Perhaps a logical next step would be for the 3 of us to meet to get aligned."

This way you pump his little ego up and pull him back into the conversation instead of alienating him. What you don't need is him feeling like he got left out of this.

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by beachBmmr

Put a time limit on the discussion, tell him you need an answer in 2 weeks because you have outside interest. People need deadlines.

If you haven't already, read chris voss book n negotiation. In sales its very useful

Don't disagree with this but it sounds like she does not have anything lined up or even really looked yet. Putting out a hard deadline like that and then not acting on it could backfire...

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Nice work!

Now the power move would have been to follow up on his comment about your manager not filling him in on your need for a raise with "That's disappointing, though not surprising. Let's face it, we all know X is a bit out of his depth as a manager. Have you considered making a change there? I've proven my competence and value to the company and love a new challenge..."

All jokes aside, it is concerning to me that the owner seemed to have the detailed knowledge of your contributions to the company yet no knowledge of your compensation and had "not thought of" a raise for you. This sounds like a small company where the owner is pretty involved. I'm not sure I buy his supposed ignorance to your comp. Based on his comments about raises not adding to his bottom line, I think he's playing you a bit. the whole "I'll take it under advisement and get back to you" bit seems like a stall tactic.

Now, you've got some politicking to do. You asked your manager for a raise and he lied about looking into it. You just went direct to his boss with the same request and uncovered your manager's lie. If the owner has a convo with your manager about your request, your manager now knows that you know, that he sucks. Depending upon how the owner has that convo with your manager it could also put your manager in a tough spot. Despite his lackluster job performance, you need your manager on your side for this one. You dont need him feeling shut out, overrun, and out of the loop. You need to sit down with him and fill him in on the convo with the owner and pump his stupid ego up: "So our owner asked me to dinner the other night and our convo turned to compensation and performance. I outlined the growth and revenue I've brought to the company and explained that a motivating factor for me was the autonomy I am given under your leadership. It allows me to operate as I see fit and despite not having had a raise since 2015, my operating arrangement with you is one of the reasons I've stayed. But that can only go so far. I dont want you to be blindsided by this but the opportunity was there to continue the compensation discussion you and I have had previously so I took it. He was receptive and I'm sure he'll be reaching out to you. Perhaps a logical next step would be for the 3 of us to meet to get aligned."

This way you pump his little ego up and pull him back into the conversation instead of alienating him. What you don't need is him feeling like he got left out of this.

I agree with almost all of this.

Yes, he has now effectively gone over his manager's head. But I thinking lying about he came to talk to the owner is a BAD idea.

Now his manager goes into the owner and says, "So I heard you went to dinner with X the other night and compensation was discussed."

"What? We never went to dinner, he came into my office."

[rebekahb]

I agree that I should have set a follow up and thought about it right after I walked out. My plan is if I haven't heard anything in two weeks I will send an email to owner and manager checking in.

DETRoadster I took your advice and called my manager. I said hey, owner text me yesterday morning and asked me to meet. I wanted to loop you in on what we discussed. Manager said they had a conversation about it recently and he was the one who told him he should be reaching out and meeting up with us. Funny thing is owner had reached out asking to meet with me a month or so ago but our schedules didn't match up. Someone isn't telling the truth and why higher up management is lying about the raise discussion is unbeknownst to me. It's a juvenile thing not to be truthful about.

Manager asked what I was thinking in terms of a raise. I told him this all came about quickly and I didn't think it would be advantageous to throw out a number without doing proper research. I did tell him that my current salary is equivalent to 5 to 7 years experience based off of my research yesterday. I asked him to speak with owner and for them to come up with something they believe is fair after looking at my year reviews and performance. I did give a few ideas on commission but no hard numbers. I said I would do additional research and come up with a plan as well. We could discuss this and decide on numbers that would be agreeable to all parties.

Manager was very appreciative I called and gave him a heads up.

[wren57]

Good idea on calling the manager. You need to get them numbers asap.

[No one]

Originally Posted by beachBmmr

People need deadlines.

I don't. It's just it should be clear that just a promise is not enough here.

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

All jokes aside, it is concerning to me that the owner seemed to have the detailed knowledge of your contributions to the company yet no knowledge of your compensation and had "not thought of" a raise for you.

Ain't that typical? "If it's fine for me, how can it come not fine for you? I don't fix what works."

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Now, you've got some politicking to do.

That's unlikely.

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

You dont need him feeling shut out, overrun, and out of the loop.

This can be reduced to "you don't need him".

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

You need to sit down with him and fill him in on the convo with the owner and pump his stupid ego up: "So our owner asked me to dinner the other night and..."

"I didn't notice you there."

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

"our convo turned to compensation and performance."

She turned the convo to compensation and performance.

[BMWGUYinCO]

This has probably been said somewhere here before, but if you plan to justify a raise commensurate with your years of experience with the job, be prepared for a higher sales target.

I'll explain. Say a person has 3 years experience....you give them a sales target based on their experience and hope they succeed and grow.

Now if someone has 7+ years experience, you would expect them to be able to achieve higher sales quotas than the 3 year employee...

Make sense?

[tcphoto]

Sounds like you handled it well, the owner has a lot on his plate and may need a week or two to come to a decision. I find that management want to think that they came up with the ideas and they'll manipulate it to fit their narrative. I would continue to gather facts, numbers and have a Plan B in case they do not follow through as you like.

[No one]

Originally Posted by BMWGUYinCO

This has probably been said somewhere here before, but if you plan to justify a raise commensurate with your years of experience with the job, be prepared for a higher sales target.

I'll explain. Say a person has 3 years experience....you give them a sales target based on their experience and hope they succeed and grow.

Now if someone has 7+ years experience, you would expect them to be able to achieve higher sales quotas than the 3 year employee...

Make sense?

No.

[chassis]

Congratulations. You have planted the seed.

If you truly want more compensation you need to take further action, for example:

- wait a month to see if the owner takes action
- follow up with the owner if no action
- sell more
- find another job

If none of the above options are appealing, the question needs to be answered: how important is more compensation to you?

I would not throw the manager under the bus as was suggested.

I would not give the owner a deadline or ultimatum unless you have another option lined up and you are willing to walk out the door if the ultimatum is not complied with.

[///d]

I'm going through a similar situation but not in sales. I work IT for the DoD, have often thought in my head that my position as well as my co-workers are not written or paid accordingly with our duties and the technical expertise and specific training that we need, so I finally brought it up to my supervisor. He looked into our position descriptions (PD) and then looked into what I felt we should be at and agreed that our PD is not written correctly for what we do. So now we are going through desk audits to get schedule and step increases and we don't expect any issues with them getting approved.

My girlfriend has complained about her pay for a couple years now and how as a COT (Certified Ophthamlic Technician.. eyeballs) she is making far less that other clinics around the area. I kept asking if she has talked to her supervisor about it which she hadn't. Finally she mentioned it to one of the doctors in a random conversation and the doctor was shocked with what she was making, and now she and all other COT's at the clinic got significant raises and are now competitive with other local clinics.

Sometimes all you have to do is ask.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by rebekahb

I agree that I should have set a follow up and thought about it right after I walked out. My plan is if I haven't heard anything in two weeks I will send an email to owner and manager checking in.

DETRoadster I took your advice and called my manager. I said hey, owner text me yesterday morning and asked me to meet. I wanted to loop you in on what we discussed. Manager said they had a conversation about it recently and he was the one who told him he should be reaching out and meeting up with us. Funny thing is owner had reached out asking to meet with me a month or so ago but our schedules didn't match up. Someone isn't telling the truth and why higher up management is lying about the raise discussion is unbeknownst to me. It's a juvenile thing not to be truthful about.

Manager asked what I was thinking in terms of a raise. I told him this all came about quickly and I didn't think it would be advantageous to throw out a number without doing proper research. I did tell him that my current salary is equivalent to 5 to 7 years experience based off of my research yesterday. I asked him to speak with owner and for them to come up with something they believe is fair after looking at my year reviews and performance. I did give a few ideas on commission but no hard numbers. I said I would do additional research and come up with a plan as well. We could discuss this and decide on numbers that would be agreeable to all parties.

Manager was very appreciative I called and gave him a heads up.

Nice work! Yeah, your description of the owner and your manager left me feeling you can't really trust either and you need to be careful that your agenda doesn't trample on theirs.

With most middle managers like yours, the agenda is simply self preservation and not being uncovered as incompetent. The way you handled it gave your manager the ability to save face (In his mind, via some lies). You know there's some lying and fuckery afoot, but you didn't let on and you allowed him his little bullshit story. You're headed in the right direction! Keep us posted.

[3.0L]

I've been both, so I have at least have little bit of both sides experience regarding salaries and raises.

When I was the boss/owner of a small business, I had a pretty good employee ask me for a raise every 6 months. Over a period of 6 years, I gave him raise every time except two.

In the end, he found another job (which is fine), so he announced his resignation. A couple of days later he came back with his hat in his hand, explaining that there was some sort of miscommunication and he really didn't have the new job, so could he come back.

I thought about it for a spell and decided to accept his resignation anyway. Why? He priced himself out of a job, that's why.

[Tommy-G]

How much do you think about "is today the right day to ask?" or is my boss in a good mood or will he be in a better mood tomorrow?
Just wondering if that comes into play

[floridaorange]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

1-1, with the boss, for drinks?

I'll look for this on pron-hub

Seriously, since the quota is there on your performance, maybe asking instead of the base salary, that you receive a larger portion on the sales? Raising the salary for everyone in the company doesn't encourage sales.

I have no experience here though, I've only ever worked non-sales positions.

Originally Posted by UncleWede

1-1, with the boss, for drinks?

I'll look for this on pron-hub

.

Get help