[mahalom3]

Originally Posted by Murf993

I heard the window tint remarks from the officer, and I don't know if he ran the marker and RO or did I hear him say there were temporary tags on the truck.

I suppose different agencies and individual officers do things differently. Sedan_Clan mentioned asking for back up, some guys I worked with never asked, they'd to stops of people and vehicles and you'd never know they were out of their car. I almost always would broadcast my location and if there was anything that I didn't like ask to see another car.

Someone said "time is on your side", very true. Actually a few simple points, time, distance and the hands will kill you. Slow things down, you get paid by the hour. No worries about letting someone sit in their car waiting for you to get it right.

Again, watch the hands! My gun is out at this point. I would have kept him inside his vehicle. Never let anyone dictate your TS unless it has something to do with any medical issues.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf993

When I was first on the job we got lots of training around the tactics of traffic stops, but then the annual Use of Force training began to shift to dealing predomenently with EDP's, and were almost always in the training rooms using SIM round and deescalation. Sometime it was out on the street, and after Columbine we did lots of active shooter stuff in school settings. I can't for the life of me remember when we did any tactical training around a traffic stop. I suppose the basics haven't changed really though but it seems that theses types of incidents are more common now.

We teach a lot of tactics regarding stops (...approach, contact/bookman duties, lights forecasting positions, etc.)

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by mahalom3

Again, watch the hands! My gun is out at this point. I would have kept him inside his vehicle. Never let anyone dictate your TS unless it has something to do with any medical issues.

Yes! The moment the motorist starts trying to dictate my stop, it's on!!!

[UncleWede]

That was a hell of a PIT at the end!

Were those officers, or just good Samaritans for the first officer?

[premier3is]

@Sedan_Clan curious to hear your thoughts on the shooting of Daunte Wright and how the officer said he mistakenly grabbed his gun instead of his taser. They are calling it an "accidental discharge". How tf do you mistake a gun for a taser?

[upstatedoc]

She not he

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by premier3is

@Sedan_Clan curious to hear your thoughts on the shooting of Daunte Wright and how the officer said he mistakenly grabbed his gun instead of his taser. They are calling it an "accidental discharge". How tf do you mistake a gun for a taser?

So the issue is the music memory. It helps, but it also hinders. It's for this reason your less lethal taser should be opposite your duty weapon. My duty weapon is on my right hip; my taser is on my left thigh.

[Fly320s]

Originally Posted by mahalom3

Again, watch the hands! My gun is out at this point. I would have kept him inside his vehicle. Never let anyone dictate your TS unless it has something to do with any medical issues.

Why would you have your gun out for a routine traffic stop? Seems excessive.

[premier3is]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

So the issue is the music memory. It helps, but it also hinders. It's for this reason your less lethal taser should be opposite your duty weapon. My duty weapon is on my right hip; my taser is on my left thigh.

Understood. But how can you not tell right away once you reach for it based on the weight? A taser weighs nothing like a loaded glock.

The family will get a massive settlement from this I presume (not that it matters since they lost someone). But hard to believe such a dumb mistake can be made.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Fly320s

Why would you have your gun out for a routine traffic stop? Seems excessive.

There's nothing routine about any traffic stop.

Sometimes I approach with my gun out. Sometimes I don't......but I almost always have my hand on my gun (...and I'm mentally prepared for what may/could happen). Every traffic stop where an officer lost his/her life would have been labeled "routine" by somebody who doesn't do this job. The officer is ALWAYS at the disadvantage.

My CHP buddy lost his life on a freeway in Riverside, California back in 2019. Gunned down by a motorcycle gang member; a Vago I believe. He had only been on a few years.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by premier3is

Understood. But how can you not tell right away once you reach for it based on the weight? A taser weighs nothing like a loaded glock.

The family will get a massive settlement from this I presume (not that it matters since they lost someone). But hard to believe such a dumb mistake can be made.

There a bunch of things that go into play and it's not black and white.

[Fly320s]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

There's nothing routine about any traffic stop.

Sometimes I approach with my gun out. Sometimes I don't......but I almost always have my hand on my gun (...and I'm mentally prepared for what may/could happen). Every traffic stop where an officer lost his/her life would have been labeled "routine" by somebody who doesn't do this job. The officer is ALWAYS at the disadvantage.

My CHP buddy lost his life on a freeway in Riverside, California back in 2019. Gunned down by a motorcycle gang member; a Vago I believe. He had only been on a few years.

How many traffic stops are conducted each year vs how many of those stops result in violence against the officer?

As a non-cop, if I pulled my gun every time I thought something was "amiss"
(my term. not yours), I would be in jail or dead a long time ago.

I understand that the police have a shitty job to do. No one likes the police, no matter what. And I understand that you are putting yourselves in jeopardy every time you stop a car. The problem I have is that you are allowed / encouraged to "go to guns" long before there is any justifiable reason to use deadly force. (Some states say showing a gun is deadly force. Their definition, not mine) As a citizen, I am allowed to use deadly force in very few circumstances. As a civilian police officer, I think you are encouraged or permitted to use your gun as a persuasion tool long before any normal civilian could do the same. My opinion, for what it is worth, is that police should be held to similar standards.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Fly320s

How many traffic stops are conducted each year vs how many of those stops result in violence against the officer?

As a non-cop, if I pulled my gun every time I thought something was "amiss"
(my term. not yours), I would be in jail or dead a long time ago.

I understand that the police have a shitty job to do. No one likes the police, no matter what. And I understand that you are putting yourselves in jeopardy every time you stop a car. The problem I have is that you are allowed / encouraged to "go to guns" long before there is any justifiable reason to use deadly force. (Some states say showing a gun is deadly force. Their definition, not mine) As a citizen, I am allowed to use deadly force in very few circumstances. As a civilian police officer, I think you are encouraged or permitted to use your gun as a persuasion tool long before any normal civilian could do the same. My opinion, for what it is worth, is that police should be held to similar standards.

I can't explain it to you. It's something you just have to experience and navigate daily. It's like trying to explain to somebody who has never been in a fight what being punched/kicked in the face feels like. That's not exactly analogous, but I think you get my point.

You develop a hunch.....a sense....after you have been doing this job awhile (...at least in theory). Complacency kills, as we just saw.

P.S. Plenty of stops result in violence or resistance. I have two videos on my phone right now of stuff that escalated and resulted in me having to use force. Not everything makes the news; I'd wager that most things don't.

P.P.S. Your understanding of our accountability is incorrect. I can't just go pointing a gun at everybody. Having my gun out is a tactic; a show of force. Pointing my gun at someone who doesn't deserve it will get me into a world of trouble in terms of policy.

[Bonk!]

Originally Posted by premier3is

@Sedan_Clan curious to hear your thoughts on the shooting of Daunte Wright and how the officer said he mistakenly grabbed his gun instead of his taser. They are calling it an "accidental discharge". How tf do you mistake a gun for a taser?

Thank god for video - without it you know she would have said "he reached under the seat" and her partner would have backed her up.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I have two videos on my phone right now of stuff that escalated and resulted in me having to use force. Not everything makes the news; I'd wager that most things don't.

Says this, and then doesn't share. Thanks a lot Scumbag Steve.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Bonk!

Thank god for video - without it you know she would have said "he reached under the seat" and her partner would have backed her up.

Nobody is willing to risk their job like that. That level of dishonesty happens.....rarely.

Originally Posted by Joekerr

Says this, and then doesn't share. Thanks a lot Scumbag Steve.

If I could post videos here, I would post them. One involved a dude using meth in a Starbucks bathroom whom I had to physically remove. The other involved a 6'4" (...I'm 5'10") 5150 who purposely banged his head against my patrol car in an attempt to crack his head open, and who later tried to fight me AND spit on a paramedic.

[Sedan_Clan]

The head bang before the fight....



...I was so annoyed. It wasn't even my handle. I was assisting my beat partner who was overwhelmed. The call went out as a trespassing call involving a known meth head/frequent flyer. I ended up with a 5150/assault on a peace officer/fire fighter situation.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Nobody is willing to risk their job like that. That level of dishonesty happens.....rarely.



If I could post videos here, I would post them. One involved a dude using meth in a Starbucks bathroom whom I had to physically remove. The other involved a 6'4" (...I'm 5'10") 5150 who purposely banged his head against my patrol car in an attempt to crack his head open, and who later tried to fight me AND spit on a paramedic.

How's the car? Will it buff out? Kinda more concerned about the car to be honest, than the dude.

But I'm guessing you bought yourself a few hours of paperwork. Sadly, you'll get no sympathy from me during the months of March and April when I'm in tax season and working from 8am-11pm 5 days a week and working Saturdays...makes me turn into a miserable curmudgeon with a distinct lack of sympathy for my fellow man.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

How's the car? Will it buff out? Kinda more concerned about the car to be honest, than the dude.

But I'm guessing you bought yourself a few hours of paperwork. Sadly, you'll get no sympathy from me during the months of March and April when I'm in tax season and working from 8am-11pm 5 days a week and working Saturdays...makes me turn into a miserable curmudgeon with a distinct lack of sympathy for my fellow man.

Lol! I was thinking about the car first too. That caper cost me 7 hours of my shift. Lil asshole he was.

I need my taxes done bro. Hook it up!!!!!

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Lol! I was thinking about the car first too. That caper cost me 7 hours of my shift. Lil asshole he was.

I need my taxes done bro. Hook it up!!!!!

Hey if you were Canadian I would. But I don't do any cross border tax work.

And my clients are all trying to kill me. Three wanted me to do a valuation of their business during tax time so they could do a capital gains surplus strip before my precious government takes that away. I'm buried in paper.

18 more days...I'm counting.

[F30lolz]

Originally Posted by premier3is

@Sedan_Clan curious to hear your thoughts on the shooting of Daunte Wright and how the officer said he mistakenly grabbed his gun instead of his taser. They are calling it an "accidental discharge". How tf do you mistake a gun for a taser?

What’s with this city? The Floyd incident happened what, 10 miles away? And now this? Listen, I get the play stupid games/win stupid prizes analogy, however, IMHO she’ll lose her job but probably won’t be charged for murder like Chauvin. From what I read/seen in video, traffic violation, had a warrant, taser taser taser!, got shot and died.

I can speak from experience and I’ve always followed officers direction/commands. Below is an example how these two officers really wanted me to give them a reason to take me down.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1372067

Sad that a life was lost due to a costly mistake by an officer.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by F30lolz

What’s with this city? The Floyd incident happened what, 10 miles away? And now this? Listen, I get the play stupid games/win stupid prizes analogy, however, IMHO she’ll lose her job but probably won’t be charged for murder like Chauvin. From what I read/seen in video, traffic violation, had a warrant, taser taser taser!, got shot and died.

I can speak from experience and I’ve always followed officers direction/commands. Below is an example how these two officers really wanted me to give them a reason to take me down.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1372067

Sad that a life was loss due to a costly mistake by an officer.

I just read your account. I can't believe I missed it the first time around.