[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Fly320s

Nothing illegal about that, unless you are in California. Too bad for you.

People in the free states can legally manufacture their own guns.

Gotta love folks who cheer on uncontrolled gun proliferation!
Quick, look behind you....

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

^^^This.


...but yes, California sucks. Beware, some states are being California'd as we speak.

What are we to "beware" of? An explosion of Saturday Night specials?
Saturday night specials have existed for ever. Usually cops know better than to mourn control of them.

Murf

[Fly320s]

Originally Posted by premier3is

Like I said, I really have no solution but maybe we can start off by outlawing owning automatic rifles by civilians? I'd love to know why a regular person should be allowed to own one.

Because they are the best tool for the job. Modern equipment works better.

Because you are "allowed" to own a modern computer instead of having to rely on a quill and parchment or even a printing press.

Because you are "allowed" to own a modern, high-powered automobile when a horse and buggy would suffice. Or just walk.

Because you are "allowed" to own pretty much whatever you want in America, so long as you are not doing harm to others. Want to own a big-ass yacht? Go buy one. Want to own a private jet to fly you around to conferences on global warming? Knock yourself out, Al.

Someone else wrote this, but I'm quoting it here because I agree with it.

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is a pretty absolute statement. It is "the right of the people," hence the right is connected to, and possessed by, the PEOPLE. To "keep and bear arms" obviously means to "maintain ownership and possession of," and "to carry upon one's person" arms (of the types that can be owned and carried). "Shall not be infringed" is the requirement no govt. may attack said right: the word "shall" is an "imperative," meaning it's not polite asking, it means "you WILL comply". The government CANNOT "infringe" the right. I think many either do not really understand or deliberately ignore this word. "Infringe" has two meanings in my dictionary; 1.) To intrude into. 2.) To diminish. If one cannot intrude into, say, a room, one may by definition not touch, alter, or enter into the room to perform any function in said room. If it must not be diminished, then by definition it must remain whole.

We have certain rational exclusions that have long been true; for example, felons and excons are generally prohibited from owning or carrying arms as they have been adjudicated guilty in a court of law. Children who are below "the age of understanding" cannot handle guns as they won't comprehend the consequences of misuse or might accidently hurt themselves or others.

But a adult who is in full possession of his rights, is not an excon, must not have his rights under the Second Amendment be abbreviated, diminished, or altered. In this sense, it is absolute.

Not ALL gun laws will necessarily injure 2A rights. A jurisdiction may decide that open carry is lawful, or that the weapon must be concealed. But one, the other, or both, must be permitted.
A point of contention may be conceal carry permits vs. "Constitutional Carry." Must a citizen request "permission" to carry? I suppose if the law is "must issue" such a law can be acceptable, but not "may issue," as capricious officials might deny a permit based on whim or political ideology.

Just to clarify what our 2nd Amendment does: It protects our right to arms; it does not grant the right to arms. It limits the government's authority to regulate arms. The right to keep and bear arms is a natural right. It is inherent to being a US citizen. It is a God given right and that is a right that can not be taken away by government.

The scholars who created this country knew exactly what they were saying when they wrote the Constitution. The Constitution establishes our country and limits what powers the government has. The first 10 amendments, the Bill of Rights, is a list of limitations to the government's powers. The founding fathers knew that these individual rights were so important, that they had to place strict limits on the government authority so that the government couldn't infringe on these rights.

[Fly320s]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Gotta love folks who cheer on uncontrolled gun proliferation!
Quick, look behind you....

Gotta love folks who cheer on uncontrolled government power!

Quick, look in a mirror...

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Fly320s

Because they are the best tool for the job. Modern equipment works better.

Because you are "allowed" to own a modern computer instead of having to rely on a quill and parchment or even a printing press.

Because you are "allowed" to own a modern, high-powered automobile when a horse and buggy would suffice. Or just walk.

Because you are "allowed" to own pretty much whatever you want in America, so long as you are not doing harm to others. Want to own a big-ass yacht? Go buy one. Want to own a private jet to fly you around to conferences on global warming? Knock yourself out, Al.

Someone else wrote this, but I'm quoting it here because I agree with it.

Just to clarify what our 2nd Amendment does: It protects our right to arms; it does not grant the right to arms. It limits the government's authority to regulate arms. The right to keep and bear arms is a natural right. It is inherent to being a US citizen. It is a God given right and that is a right that can not be taken away by government.

The scholars who created this country knew exactly what they were saying when they wrote the Constitution. The Constitution establishes our country and limits what powers the government has. The first 10 amendments, the Bill of Rights, is a list of limitations to the government's powers. The founding fathers knew that these individual rights were so important, that they had to place strict limits on the government authority so that the government couldn't infringe on these rights.

Right on Patriot!!!

[premier3is]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

+1

Criminals will be criminals will be criminals. Limit the people, and you only give criminals more leverage. This should be common sense to anybody with a working brain between their ears.

Right that's why I said if you ban weapons overall, criminals will still get them one way or another and at that point it's basically all in their hands. Like I said, I have no solution to the problem and each outcome would have its own pros and cons.

[premier3is]

1. And what job exactly are you referring too that you need the best "tool" to do as a civilian?

2. Also, just because it's the best tool doesn't make it the right choice for everyone to use.

No one should be able to walk around a Walmart or Target strapped with a semi-automatic across their back.

[UncleWede]

I'm worried about Potter. I don't think she "fell on her service weapon" but I would take 80/20 odds she eats her weapon by Sunday morning, if it wasn't taken when she resigned

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

Pics of musket?

Preferably being held by a scantily clad woman.....might be the rum talking.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Fly320s

....
Just to clarify what our 2nd Amendment does: It protects our right to arms; it does not grant the right to arms. It limits the government's authority to regulate arms. The right to keep and bear arms is a natural right. It is inherent to being a US citizen. It is a God given right and that is a right that can not be taken away by government.

The scholars who created this country knew exactly what they were saying when they wrote the Constitution. The Constitution establishes our country and limits what powers the government has. The first 10 amendments, the Bill of Rights, is a list of limitations to the government's powers. The founding fathers knew that these individual rights were so important, that they had to place strict limits on the government authority so that the government couldn't infringe on these rights.

Your first paragraph is confusing. I agree, the 2a doesn't grant us the right to own arms. We have to pass reasonable screening.
No god I know of has even mentioned guns once.

Our founding fathers knew that their work was not handed to them by a burning bush on a mountaintop. They included provisions to change most everything!

Murf

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Fly320s

Gotta love folks who cheer on uncontrolled government power!

Quick, look in a mirror...

Doing no such thing. Your thinking is very bipolar; there is a middle that is this side of old Dodge City.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

+1

Criminals will be criminals will be criminals. Limit the people, and you only give criminals more leverage. This should be common sense to anybody with a working brain between their ears.

And only criminals will do DUI.
Wait, DUI has gone down, tremendously!
Jesh, I have to rest my brain after that exertion....

[cmyx6go]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

Joker on jack
Match on a fire
Cold on ice
A dead man's touch
Whisper on a scream
Never change a thing
Doesn't bring you back
.......................?




I kid, I kid!


(But some people...the missing lyric - they truly think this.)

Tears on a river
Push on a shove

I'm not going to be the one to give away the missing lyric and get sucked in to this back forth again. But it is a great tune.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by premier3is

1. And what job exactly are you referring too that you need the best "tool" to do as a civilian?

2. Also, just because it's the best tool doesn't make it the right choice for everyone to use.

No one should be able to walk around a Walmart or Target strapped with a semi-automatic across their back.

Who can walk around with a gun strapped to their back? Surely nobody in California, or New York....or Nevada.....or Florida....or....?!?

The AR may not be the tool for you, but it's the go-to tool for me and many others.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

And only criminals will do DUI.
Wait, DUI has gone down, tremendously!
Jesh, I have to rest my brain after that exertion....

No it hasn't. Not by a long shot. My department alone handled 700 fatal DUI's in my county last year. Statistically we have been averaging 10,000+ alcohol related collisions a year in this country since 2010, and that's not even including drug related DUI's. It's a huge issue, which is why I'm becoming a state certified DRE in July and why I've been in some additional DUI certification/training all week.

[cmyx6go]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

No it hasn't. Not by a long shot. We had 700 fatal DUI's alone in my county last year. It's a huge issue, which is why I'm becoming a state certified DRE in July and why I've been in DUI training all week.

What is a DRE? I googled but I doubt the result I got is what you are talking about

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

What is a DRE? I googled but I doubt the result I got is what you are talking about

Drug Recognition Expert. My department has about 10......out of 20,000+ sworn/non-sworn personnel. It's a 3 week intensive training that, once certified through the state, I can testify as an expert on the stand.

Lol! Now I'm curious what came up when you googled.

[cmyx6go]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Drug Recognition Expert. My department has about 10......out of 20,000 sworn/non-sworn personnel. It's a 3 week intensive training that, once certified through the state, I can testify as an expert on the stand.

Lol! Now I'm curious what came up when you googled.

You asked.....

Digital Rectal Exam

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

You asked.....

Digital Rectal Exam

Well that escalated quickly.

[cmyx6go]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Well that escalated quickly.

I just typed DRE meaning, should have included LEO reference. My bad, but at least it made for a good morning laugh. Be safe out there, have a good day.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

You asked.....

Digital Rectal Exam

Ahh yes, lovely things they are. Where the minutes feel like hours.

[unluky]

So to the folks with "gun fear". What exactly is it about a gun that scares you?

How come you will walk across a crosswalk without a concern in the world with 50 law abiding citizens with their cars in gear with hundreds of horsepower and tons of steel bearing down on you with nothing but 1/4 of their foot on their brake stopping you from being rolled under the vehicle and smashed to bits to die a horribly painful death, yet that same citizen with a black piece of metal to their back or waist somehow frightens the hell out of you?

I just don't get the leap. Either one of those require you to have faith that your fellow law abiding citizen won't go blood lust on you and decide to take you out - why is one of no concern and the other is a living nightmare for some?

Maybe I just grew up in an area with lots of guns and very low crime so it never enters my mind, but I just don't get it.