[48Laws]

Originally Posted by KTN

The responses from a couple people in this thread are just silly fun really.

Every time the transmission debate erupts usually by the MT "purists" the bottom line is always that they don't care about higher performance numbers, but must have the MT as that's what matters to them and not getting 0-100kph half a sec faster.

Now when they get what they want, interestingly they seem to gloss over this argument and continue complaining how it's a tragedy it won't be as powerful as the AT models, how it's a shame it's now its own "tier", how this sucks and how that sucks, etc...

In essence it seems like what this people crave and live off of is non-stop complaining about one thing or another, and not the joy of driving a manual. Pure comedy.

Now sure, you're free to want to have your cake and eat it too, but somehow I just feel like if BMW created the closest thing to a perfect "new-gen" MT car, a few here would still find something to grab onto to dislike and be all upset about.

Their argument is legitimate. Scaling HP in the same performance vehicle is a company hoodwinking the consumer, if you will. It’s the same car. And why would the heavier luxo-version need to be faster and the stripper essentially slower? That is the antithesis of how performance cars work.

[E92Hwo2]

Originally Posted by LMBe82

I want a back to basics M3. The Pure version sounds promising but I really want nothing but performance. NO nav, heated seats, back up cameras, active suspension, electronic rear diff, hill assist, crash detection, blind spot monitoring, etc. Seriously none of it. I am entertained by driving my fun car and listening to the radio (stock is okay with me). Cars have become so bloated with all this tech and I hate it. If this Pure is really a stripper only thing I ask for is power windows and mirrors haha. If BMW can pull this off I will sell my Z4 M Coupe. Anyone else interested in a true M3?

Sounds like you want a 20years old car that is easy go to Craigslist search it boom done , but u want M3 sounds google it for M3 engine for used boom done . Easy as that

[cncmastr]

Originally Posted by SanchoDivine

I guess I can thank BMW for saving me money by making me not interested in trading my current F80 6MT for the new G80.

I too, have been less interested in the latest models. In fact older cars more and more attractive every passing generation.

[JRobUSC]

Originally Posted by einscot

bye bye bmw. why force the base engine on us 6MT drivers? i don't care about rwd vs awd but basically forcing an automatic on us to get the higher rated engine is bunk. thank god for GT3s!

Yes, thank God for the existence of a triple the price track star coupe so all those M3 defectors have somewhere to go when they ditch their sedans. Since that's the logical move, straight from an M3 sedan to a 911 GT3.

[KTN]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Their argument is legitimate. Scaling HP in the same performance vehicle is a company hoodwinking the consumer, if you will. It’s the same car. And why would the heavier luxo-version need to be faster and the stripper essentially slower? That is the antithesis of how performance cars work.

You're completely missing the situation.

It's not whether that argument is in itself legitimate or not.

It's that the same people crying havoc over the manual being slightly down on power, in other arguments go as far as saying they'd rather drive a shopping cart if that's the only MT option, because it isn't the tenth-of-seconds of performance they care about.

Well, now they will get a manual version. Seems like it'll be down on power (could be for example for clutch reasons), but at least it'll be available, right? Hm, no, all of a sudden they aren't happy that at least that the "MT is saved", but go on complaining about why it has less power than the AT.

You're also missing the point on the reason for the difference. It's not down on power because it's the light-weight stripper version. It's down on power because of the drivetrain differences, the manual transmission. And please before this comes up again, nobody's saying a clutch able to handle the power of the AT version isn't possible. Similar or even higher performance MTs are around. But currently BMW probably didn't find dumping money into MTs all that feasible, or just simply wanted it accessible at a lower price-point so they couldn't justify the R&D costs, or [insert similar reasons here]. And if how some people here react is any real indication of the majority reaction (doubtful), we'll see if they will in the future...

[Fugly M3]

BMW doesn't have a manual that can handle more than 480 lb ft. Translation...BMW refuses to engineer a new manual transmission.

[Big boi m5]

Originally Posted by FRAU GRAU

BMW doesn't have a manual that can handle more than 480 lb ft. Translation...BMW refuses to engineer a new manual transmission.

Why would they when nobody buys them?

[LMBe82]

I don't want a 20 year old car. I already own a 13 year old Z4 M and I want something bigger and new. I want a new M3 with 4 doors and room for my 2 kids. I don't need all the tech, gadget and gizmos. What is so hard to understand? Nobody needs all the crap they put in cars these days. We obviously got along just fine in the past.

Originally Posted by E92Hwo2

Sounds like you want a 20years old car that is easy go to Craigslist search it boom done , but u want M3 sounds google it for M3 engine for used boom done . Easy as that

[10"]

Originally Posted by LMBe82

I want a back to basics M3. The Pure version sounds promising but I really want nothing but performance. NO nav, heated seats, back up cameras, active suspension, electronic rear diff, hill assist, crash detection, blind spot monitoring, etc. Seriously none of it. I am entertained by driving my fun car and listening to the radio (stock is okay with me). Cars have become so bloated with all this tech and I hate it. If this Pure is really a stripper only thing I ask for is power windows and mirrors haha. If BMW can pull this off I will sell my Z4 M Coupe. Anyone else interested in a true M3?

Never gonna happen. The last M car made like that was the 1M. That's why it is revered endlessly....will never sell mine.

[KTN]

Originally Posted by LMBe82

Nobody needs all the crap they put in cars these days. We obviously got along just fine in the past.

We sure did.

[Grumpy Old Man]

BMW will build rear-drive-only manual-only versions of its upcoming M3 and M4 that will offer a more pure driving experience—and, subsequently, will be called “Pure,” according to Car magazine.

https://driving.ca/bmw/3-series/auto...nual-only-trim

The name “Pure” isn’t set in stone, but is a clear indication of what the Munich brand wants from its lineup of slushbox luxo-tanks.

The first M series car to feature all-wheel-drive and a torque-converter automatic was the M5, and the tragedy has since trickled down to other models.

The next generation of M3 and M4 will rely on a classic 3.0-litre twin-turbo straight-six to send 454 and 474 horsepower, respectively, to all four wheels.

The only manual option will be in this rumoured Pure edition, which will thankfully not be offered with an all-wheel-drive option. Thanks to three fewer axles and one less transfer case, the car should be a lot lighter, too.

Unfortunately, BMW doesn’t currently have a manual transmission in its stable that can handle more than 480 horsepower, so either the Pure models will be capped; or they’ll have to sneak into FCA and steal one from the Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat or something.

We should expect to see these models at the Frankfurt Motor Show in September, hopefully with Competition, CS and CSL models to follow.

[city1991]

Too bad I'm old with a bad left knee, shifting kills me now.

[Penguino]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Their argument is legitimate. Scaling HP in the same performance vehicle is a company hoodwinking the consumer, if you will. It’s the same car. And why would the heavier luxo-version need to be faster and the stripper essentially slower? That is the antithesis of how performance cars work.

Just take a second to think.

[ironside2018]

Curious as to other's views on how credible this article is...I'm not familiar with the magazine or the author of the article.

[frankiebones]

I can and will forgo luxury options to retain a 6MT. It seems like BMW is really forcing 6MT Purists to put their money where their mouth is.

However, I hope the fender and exterior styling is just as attractive, and I hope I don’t have to give up my HUD. After 45k miles with it I would never consider a car without one again, especially in stock given how often I glance at the engine speed.

[E92Hwo2]

Originally Posted by KTN

We sure did.

lol yah we sure did

[gds52]

Originally Posted by LMBe82

I want a back to basics M3. The Pure version sounds promising but I really want nothing but performance. NO nav, heated seats, back up cameras, active suspension, electronic rear diff, hill assist, crash detection, blind spot monitoring, etc. Seriously none of it. I am entertained by driving my fun car and listening to the radio (stock is okay with me). Cars have become so bloated with all this tech and I hate it. If this Pure is really a stripper only thing I ask for is power windows and mirrors haha. If BMW can pull this off I will sell my Z4 M Coupe. Anyone else interested in a true M3?

Not gonna happen...lol.
Keep your Z4M....don't sell it. I will do same.
I test drove M2 when it was launched, and it was no brainer to buy Z4M coupe for me. I even drove my friend's M2 competition 6MT, I could not fall in love with it.

I just had 540i as loaner...I know it's luxury sedan....but it's nowhere near Tesla S. Ok P85D is fast but that car's steering turns in so quick...almost like a Miata....not kidding.
540i (same size as S) Feels so bloated.


Older Base model BMWs were fun to drive.....now you need all the packages DHP n so on to have fun....still very numb.

New cars have to have all these tech things plus
mileage regulations...so best advice is to buy old M for little money, out 10-15k in it to refresh it and have great fun car

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by SleepingBMW

Why would they when nobody buys them?

If they put forth that as the reason, I'd be totally cool with it. It's the cop-out we don't have the transmission and we refuse to make it that got to me. It's the same line you get from the Germans at the Ring when you ask something they don't believe the car should do or haven't already thought of...."it is not possible." It's almost as endearing as it is annoying.

I just watched the first episode of season 3 of The Grand Tour and Jeremy was blasting around in an RTR Mustang with a 6 spd that was reported to be 40k GBP...or about 60k USD. Certainly BMW has the capacity to build one...they just choose not to.

Anyway, the take rate on the F80 wasn't that bad... 28.32% US and 15.65% globally. I would certainly buy one...if I weren't commuting into DTLA daily.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1551939

[SanchoDivine]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

I can and will forgo luxury options to retain a 6MT. It seems like BMW is really forcing 6MT Purists to put their money where their mouth is.

However, I hope the fender and exterior styling is just as attractive, and I hope I don't have to give up my HUD. After 45k miles with it I would never consider a car without one again, especially in stock given how often I glance at the engine speed.

I'm not a purist, I just prefer manuals. I have absolutely zero interest in boring automatics to include DCTs. I got the F80 to drive and I drive it daily. I was hoping the next M3 I get would still be a manual, have AWD, and all the nice creature comforts (Upgraded stereo, hud, lights, navigation, full leather, etc). If I wanted a stripped down car to race I would look for a salvage vehicle (stolen and recovered) and build it into a race car not buy a new car. Lots of people also don't want the status of "entry level" aka poor person version.

This "pure" model will likely do extremely poorly in sales and BMW will blame it on the manual transmission.

[einscot]

Originally Posted by KTN

The responses from a couple people in this thread are just silly fun really.

Every time the transmission debate erupts usually by the MT "purists" the bottom line is always that they don't care about higher performance numbers, but must have the MT as that's what matters to them and not getting 0-100kph half a sec faster.

Now when they get what they want, interestingly they seem to gloss over this argument and continue complaining how it's a tragedy it won't be as powerful as the AT models, how it's a shame it's now its own "tier", how this sucks and how that sucks, etc...

In essence it seems like what this people crave and live off of is non-stop complaining about one thing or another, and not the joy of driving a manual. Pure comedy.

Now sure, you're free to want to have your cake and eat it too, but somehow I just feel like if BMW created the closest thing to a perfect "new-gen" MT car, a few here would still find something to grab onto to dislike and be all upset about.

no, some of us don't want a watered down M3 in order to drive our cars. sure some people claim they want a purist car, but if i wanted my car to do everything for me, i'd buy a tesla. if P and AM can both build 500+ HP MT cars, BMW should reconsider their strategy

[einscot]

Originally Posted by JRobUSC

Yes, thank God for the existence of a triple the price track star coupe so all those M3 defectors have somewhere to go when they ditch their sedans. Since that's the logical move, straight from an M3 sedan to a 911 GT3.

do you know of another sedan with MT we should go to instead?

i'm guessing you've never driven the "track star" by the snarkiness in your comment

[JRobUSC]

Originally Posted by einscot

do you know of another sedan with MT we should go to instead?

i'm guessing you've never driven the "track star" by the snarkiness in your comment

Exactly, no, there is no other super high performance manual sedan for you to switch to. None, zero, nothing from Audi, Benz, Porsche, Alfa Romeo, any Japanese brand, etc. The M3 sedan is it, one else is offering anything to appease you folks except BMW, so you should be happy and thankful. It's unbelievable, really, how ridiculous some of the people on here are. My snark wasn't directed at the Porsche, or at BMW. If that's what you got from the statement then you missed what should have been a pretty obvious point.