[Epirali]

Hi everyone:

I have been loving my 2015 i8 for 3+ years now, and I have been toying with switching to the roadster since summer. I love the 2 seater idea of the i8 roadster, and honestly do not want "more power," but would appreciate refinements in delivery and suspension as others have noted.

So I finally went to test drive and potentially swap out mine this weekend. Here is my personal opinions and why I did not. It is not meant to be a review or non endorsement, just information others may find useful.

The overall look of the roadster is quite stunning, even in person. The new burnt orange color is much nicer in person than in photos (one of my concerns as I love the look of the protonic blue in different lights). And the drop top design and function is first rate, including what I heard as the sound isolation even in the showroom (double layer and as good as I have heard in a soft top).

But every interior detail changes the new team has made to make the car more "impressive" is a significant step backwards. For my aesthetics they have almost destroyed the subtle elegance of the original design and yet they have made so few changes. In order of "offensive:"

1) projected i8 logo from the door on the ground and on your footwell as you close the door. This is not a kid car, and gee I wonder what I am driving. It is so amateur and child like. I was going to swap out the lamp or just cover it if I got the car. Yes not a big deal but kind of tells you something, no?

2) Carbon fiber instead of the original dark silver insets. The carbon fiber was much better looking in person than in photos. Definitely did not look "cheap" insert like in most cars as it had texture and is quite dark. But it also has no reason to exist in a car that is literally made of carbon fiber other than "because." And the weave patterns across the surfaces didn't make sense and went in every direction. If you look at all the layers in the original design there was a lot of care to detail and this seemed just kind of haphazard.

3) The interior light trim hasn't been changed. With the original color schemes (interior light or dark) the three color choices worked perfectly and made sense. But with the dark/orange pattern NONE work. The orange is a miss, the blue just looks random and the white, well just cut a line across the dark.

4) In the original there is blue stitching in the seats, but I had always noticed they did not stitch the front dash panel (they used a blend color to the material). Initially I wondered why until I quickly realized it would have cut a line across the dash and be visually disruptive. Well the roadster has the orange stitching across the entire dash. And yes it cuts a rather visible line across.

5) The center display is much higher res and better graphics, but much dimmer than the original (and yes I set it to full brightness). In daylight and with top open that seems like a bad tradeoff.

6) The seats are a definite improvement with one minor drawback. If you have a broad chest/back the more supportive upper support is too small. I didn't quite fit. So it wasn't comfortable. For most people it would be just fine and the seat is better and more comfortable otherwise.

7) I know why they did it and it makes perfect sense but I really like how the hood airflow scoop "deepens" the shape of the car and that is gone. They do leave the visual paint for same effect but it does flatten the hood a bit.

8) The tail shape is definitely very nice alternative, but it is much more "common" as it echoes many other cars. I really like how the hard top has a unique flowing shape. This one obviously is definitely a matter of taste, I could take either one.

9) The car really doesn't need the cheap plastic "roadster" badging outside, I am pretty sure I won't be confused!

So for me besides the deal breakers it seemed every change took the car to be towards a "typical" BMW or sporty car. This is probably a good thing for some, but for me I always like the "otherness" of the i8.

BTW it was fun to initially have a "discussion" with the dealer who kept insisting there is no change in the suspension whatsoever.

[ericsi]

Steering on roadster is a big improvement: heavier with more feel,

I hated the roof squeaks and rattles when closed.

[evanevery]

Well, having a convertible option is a pretty big change. Its a massive improvement in my opinion. I simply wouldn't have purchased an i8 unless it was a convertible. The coupe holds no attraction for me...

I never had a coupe but reportedly, there ARE handling improvements in the LCI. Suspension and Steering have been upgraded. From: BMW i8 Roadster review: the hybrid supercar, refined (https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-re...review-2018/):

"...after driving the facelifted i8, we're confident its replacement is an altogether different beast."

"...tweaked suspension and weightier steering – and both should sharpen up the BMW’s handling."

"The underbody is more aerodynamic to aid the new airflow, and because it’s marginally more efficient, you’ll find the same solution on the new Coupe."

"The old Coupe’s slightly vague, fast steering has been replaced by a wheel that gives far more feedback than before, and BMW has changed the way the resistance comes in off-centre, too."

"The brakes are more intuitive..."

"...benefits from an augmented engine note..."

"...there is a handsome power increase on the electric side."

"It still looks great, but under the surface small changes make it a tighter, more intuitive and more rewarding car to push than its predecessor."

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by ericsi

Steering on roadster is a big improvement: heavier with more feel,

I hated the roof squeaks and rattles when closed.

Do you mean when the i8 top is closed you hear squeaks and rattles? That doesn't sound right, I didn't drive it but it seemed very solid when I closed it and opened it.

Originally Posted by evanevery

Well, having a convertible option is a pretty big change. Its a massive improvement in my opinion. I simply wouldn't have purchased an i8 unless it was a convertible. The coupe holds no attraction for me...

<snip>

"It still looks great, but under the surface small changes make it a tighter, more intuitive and more rewarding car to push than its predecessor."

Both these points are why I had ordered one, so no argument. I always loved the roadster from start when they showed it, and if I had gotten it I would have driven my i8 a lot more.

And for most people the aesthetic detailing isn't as huge an issue. But for me I ultimately live "inside" the car and how it feels is a big deal.

Enjoy your convertible i8, I am sure it is a blast! I am envious.

[evanevery]

BTW - I have always been amazed at just how tight and quiet the Roadster is with the top up. I've always owned at least one convertible (inc an M6) and the i8 is the quietest of the bunch!

[ericsi]

Originally Posted by Epirali

Do you mean when the i8 top is closed you hear squeaks and rattles? That doesn't sound right, I didn't drive it but it seemed very solid when I closed it and opened it.



Both these points are why I had ordered one, so no argument. I always loved the roadster from start when they showed it, and if I had gotten it I would have driven my i8 a lot more.

And for most people the aesthetic detailing isn't as huge an issue. But for me I ultimately live "inside" the car and how it feels is a big deal.

Enjoy your convertible i8, I am sure it is a blast! I am envious.

Yes squeaks and rattles driving it with the roof closed.

The car is really well made, no doubt about it.

However, on broken uk roads, you can hear plastic parts rubbing againt windows and windscreen mounts. This is highly irritating in an electric / quiet car.

Some people can probably live with it, for me, i prefer the structural integrity (and quietness) of my coupe.

I liked the other improvements and particularly the steering. But they were not worthy of me spending the same amount as what my 4k miles car is worth right now to get into one.

In my mind, they make pe owned coupes look like a complete bargain.

[evanevery]

I have driven on some pretty bad roads (Chicago) and have never experienced any of this...

[jcpca356]

they should stop making it already. as with all convertibles, i8 roadster will eventually squeak and rattle and annoy you to no end. F360 spyder, 911TT cabs, M3 conv, boxster, etc etc. They all eventually squeak and rattle much more than their solid roof counterparts.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by jcpca356

they should stop making it already. as with all convertibles, i8 roadster will eventually squeak and rattle and annoy you to no end. F360 spyder, 911TT cabs, M3 conv, boxster, etc etc. They all eventually squeak and rattle much more than their solid roof counterparts.

(Troll much?)

In my long experience, that's pure B.S.!

I've had lots of convertibles and NONE of them ever squeaked or rattled. This includes (i8, M6, Mustang, and even a VW Thing)... Maybe its the lack of proper care?

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by evanevery

(Troll much?)

In my long experience, that's pure B.S.!

I've had lots of convertibles and NONE of them ever squeaked or rattled. This includes (i8, M6, Mustang, and even a VW Thing)... Maybe its the lack of proper care?

Well after a lot of back and forth I actually got a good deal on the 19 Roadster and pulled the trigger. I’ll write a more detailed impressions after a couple of days but my first impression is definitely more refined suspension and drivetrain that 2015, the soft top is dead quiet closed (almost as quiet as coupe), surprisingly less wind noise than coupe.

Only immediate complaint is they did not change the heating to be more powerful/appropriate for a convertible, not enough airflow from vents. But the speed increase/responsiveness from iDrive is a vast improvement.

[JasH]

7/ Yes the loss of the scoop is bad, but necessary on Roadster. It's a retrograde step on the new coupe though.


9/ I told BMW the badge was cheap and tacky 15 month ago.



Steering is simply very slightly higher geared. Nothing significant.


Weight is significantly increased, which means the car is slightly less responsive to throttle and steering inputs (hence the steering change). Hence the suspension being altered, but the car feels marginally less responsive as a result.


New seats are great. New HUD is great.

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by JasH

Steering is simply very slightly higher geared. Nothing significant.


Weight is significantly increased, which means the car is slightly less responsive to throttle and steering inputs (hence the steering change). Hence the suspension being altered, but the car feels marginally less responsive as a result.

New seats are great. New HUD is great.

So I only have a few hours so far but to me the car seems more responsive, specially in the electric to engine transitions. Where my 15 would sometimes slightly hesitate there is now no hesitation, and there is a cleaner propulsion from electric to rear engine.

I agree the steering seems to be only weight difference, but the suspension changes make the car feel much more center balance then my old coupe. It now moves through a corner more like the Alfa 4C. The additional weight can be felt, but the behavior change actually makes the cars feel more nimble to me through the same curves I am very used to. And the front tires hold better now.

So far to me all the changes come together in a more refined package. Yes it feels a little different, but I wouldn’t say it’s worse. And the change to me feels in the 10 to 20% range, it’s not a completely new thing. For good or for bad this should be considered by anyone who is thinking of switching.

In my opinion just the changes aren’t worth an upgrade. But for me getting the convertible, the laser headlights, and the other changes all add up. The changes overall are a slight improvement, for me anyway. And maybe part of that is I’ve already driven the original coupe for over three years so this is a nice change.

One fascinating observation is that the color of the 2 E copper roadsters I saw that were built within a few months of each other we are radically different. The older one is much deeper orange and if my recollection is right so was the orange in the seats. Mine which is a few months later has a more subtle and complex orange with almost some very light pink in it. The color looks better in the sunlight and changes more interestingly in different lighting conditions then I believe the other deeper orange. I wonder if this change was on purpose, I cannot believe it is just a batch variation. It is a little too dramatic.
By the way so far I am definitely seeing a very significant E range increase in my normal driving routes. And this is in colder weather than I usually drive. So I’m not sure why the rated mileage is so conservative. I can see why some people are saying they can get 30 mile range electric if I had to guess I can get 26 miles where I was getting 16-18 before, will know tomorrow.

One question about the HUD: I keep reading how it’s improved, but the only change I see is the RPM and shift indicator in the sport mode which I find to distracting. Is there another change I am missing? The resolution improvement on the surround cameras is a much bigger deal.

[Epirali]

Ok just realized new iDrive in 2019 supports wireless CarPlay! Strange to have the iPhone CarPlay whole not plugged in. Of course it disconnects the phone from WiFi. But cool!

[JasH]

Originally Posted by Epirali

One question about the HUD: I keep reading how it’s improved, but the only change I see is the RPM and shift indicator in the sport mode which I find to distracting. Is there another change I am missing? .

RPM & shift indicator are a MASSIVE improvement over the original IMHO. Makes manual paddle shifting genuinely useful. i.e. affects how you drive the car.

Regarding the handling changes, I'd rate them as 5% difference rather than 10-20%, if I had to put a figure on it.

The weight increase is a 10% negative, in terms of "feel" to me. I hugely prefer lightweight when it comes to any car.

[BanjoPaterson]

Originally Posted by JasH

7/ Yes the loss of the scoop is bad, but necessary on Roadster. It's a retrograde step on the new coupe though.

That's interesting, because I thought the removal of the scoop and flattening of the bonnet looked better. Whenever people see my '15 car they see a massive scoop in the bonnet they usually say "Oh".

Mind you, I've not seen the updated car in "real life" to be able to compare.

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by JasH

RPM & shift indicator are a MASSIVE improvement over the original IMHO. Makes manual paddle shifting genuinely useful. i.e. affects how you drive the car.

Regarding the handling changes, I'd rate them as 5% difference rather than 10-20%, if I had to put a figure on it.

The weight increase is a 10% negative, in terms of "feel" to me. I hugely prefer lightweight when it comes to any car.

I think I’m pretty much with you in your assessment. Haven’t had a warm enough day to push the tires and see yet. But I do like the shift of feel to center.

And so far the trade offs are worth having a 2 seater convertible to me. Change is good!

[Epirali]

So I just did a controlled range test on a drive I do regularly. Around 60F and with rain, which is slightly less efficient at temp and drag I did a 26 mile drive at eco pro with no AirCon and still had around 8 miles left realistically by battery percentage. So that is a realistic 32 miles with me driving at what I would to get maximum range (but not insane grandma driving). I was getting around 3.3 miles/kWh which I never managed with the 2015 coup before, so despite weight increase the aero is definitely better (at highways speeds drag is one of the main efficiency issues).

And I have no idea why they now underrate the battery, the capacity increase is ABSOLUTELY reflected in the range you can get. I never managed to get better than 18-19 mile range on the same drive out of the old battery under same driving conditions and styles.

[JasH]

Originally Posted by Epirali

so despite weight increase the aero is definitely better (at highways speeds drag is one of the main efficiency issues).

No, the aero is worse on the Roadster vs the original coupe, not better. It has measurably more drag. Partly due to the front changes, but also the rear.

I asked this direct question to the developers at Leipzig, and they gave the figures in fact. I can't precisely recall the drag coefficients though. Old coupe has the lowest drag of all 3 variants. Roadster has the highest.

[Epirali]

I’ll take your word for it, but then what explains the improved miles/KWHrs?

Another random observation: not sure if it’s just the laser headlights but the low beams are vastly better on this one than 2015. Much better and brighter field. And the lasers are not dramatic but really fill out high beam and extend the range when they kick in.

[jcpca356]

It's been my 35 year experience and ownership of over 60 cars. I had F360 spyder, 911TT cab, M3 conv, 964 cab, 993 cab, 325ci conv, etc. All tight in the beginning but much looser than solid roof counterparts in the end.

Ah then there's the added wind noise...

All my cars were garaged and well cared for without seeing any winters...

Convertibles just don't have as much structural integrity as solid roof cars.

Originally Posted by evanevery

(Troll much?)

In my long experience, that's pure B.S.!

I've had lots of convertibles and NONE of them ever squeaked or rattled. This includes (i8, M6, Mustang, and even a VW Thing)... Maybe its the lack of proper care?

[JasH]

Originally Posted by Epirali

I’ll take your word for it, but then what explains the improved miles/KWHrs?

I can't explain your miles per KWhrs figure, and can only think its a measurement anomaly. It should be lower, not higher.

[JasH]

Originally Posted by jcpca356

Convertibles just don't have as much structural integrity as solid roof cars.

Agreed, they normally don't. Some are identical though ie those designed that way from scratch e.g. any modern (aluminium) Lotus, or the (carbon) 570S.

I think the i8 Roadster will be fine though. Due to the stiff carbon tub, even though this was of course originally designed to use the roof as a structural component (hence the extra weight from added bracing).


(As a point of interest the soon to arrive 720S Spider will most likely suffer the same compromises as the i8 Roadster, through losing its structural carbon roof.)