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      09-01-2020, 12:22 AM   #2509
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Originally Posted by floridaorange View Post
With regard to supplements - everyone's body responds differently and you'll want to find the brand that works best for you.

I take 1 bcaa made by "Dymatized (Super Protein Amino 6000)"

And 1 scoop of "Genius Creatine Power Matrix" but instead of taking it post workout I take it before.

I do every other day gym & supplements / home without supplements.

This has worked great for me. I'm 6'2 195 40 yrs old.

I drink almost a gallon of water when I workout - but your muscles are mostly water - so properly hydrating them is critical.
Itís better to take creatine everyday even if you donít workout to maintain optimal levels.
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      09-01-2020, 01:55 AM   #2510
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Originally Posted by floridaorange View Post
when it comes to squats and deadlifts I think each individual needs to customize their form to what feels right, as well as using proper fundamentals of course. Foot placement, shoe type. bar placement, how far down you squat, it all depends on what feels safe for me personally. If the weight is dictating my form, I stop.
Couldn't agree more - as I'm pushing 50 and started getting a few injuries (calf strain here, torn meniscus there, herniated disc on the flip side) I started asking myself what I was trying to accomplish ... so I dumped all of the supplements (especially blood sugar spiking BCAAs) and switched to more time-under-tension stuff, body weight stuff, etc. At first I hated it (change is tough) but now I can't imagine going back ...

I guess the lesson for me was, the older I get the more I risk a major injury I'm going to really really regret.

Watching the Ronnie Coleman doc convinced me (not that I'm qualified to be within 100 miles of a gym with Ronnie Coleman in it)



I'm also planning to do some traveling so need no-brainer routines I can do in a hotel room or outside without equipment (or with water jugs or whatever - 2 five galloners do a great job!)
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      09-01-2020, 03:26 AM   #2511
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The Chaddening I prefer on/off the supps + relying on creatine from meat. It's also allows my body to flush any added water weight.

GrussGott I'll put my wife on my shoulders for a set of 4/5 squats on the road or use suitcases as well... I always travel with 30 lbs bands etc.

Today was back/bi's - I love a good back day... finished up with lunges - 80 lbs, just enough.

As another member mentioned - personally I always take 1 day off but I understand not taking a day off as well. That 1 day off is when everything heals including the nervous system, but I love no days off too.
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Sounds pizzagatey.
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      09-01-2020, 09:26 AM   #2512
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The Chaddening I prefer on/off the supps + relying on creatine from meat. It's also allows my body to flush any added water weight.

GrussGott I'll put my wife on my shoulders for a set of 4/5 squats on the road or use suitcases as well... I always travel with 30 lbs bands etc.

Today was back/bi's - I love a good back day... finished up with lunges - 80 lbs, just enough.

As another member mentioned - personally I always take 1 day off but I understand not taking a day off as well. That 1 day off is when everything heals including the nervous system, but I love no days off too.
Yeah I go back and forth between wanting to take a day off an no days off. I really just feel lazy if I don't get in the gym, so more often then not I'll plan for an off day, but just end up going anyways.

With that said I plan my workouts that way I am not directly overworking any muscle group.
Day 1: Back/Tricep
Day 2: Shoulders/biceps
Day 3: Legs
Day 4: Chest
Day 5: Arms
Day 6: Legs
Day 7: Repeat

So basically on every 3rd day I hit legs because my upper body starts to get over worked. Usually one of those leg days is more cardio focused with lighter/high rep lifts just to get blood in them because their usually still a little sore from the heavier leg day. Usually works fine for me as long as caloric intake is at a decent level. Where I'm going to start to hit is wall is this and next week where I bring my calories down. I'll probably get more sore and tired the next two weeks.
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      09-01-2020, 12:29 PM   #2513
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That schedule actually makes a lot of sense - that's a more advanced routine than I guess I expected but clearly there are some disciplined dedicated lifters around here. I'm still doing a split - push / pull / legs but I could see moving to your program actually at some point. If I had a badass home gym I'd be doing twice a days 7 days a week probably
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Sounds pizzagatey.
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      09-01-2020, 03:48 PM   #2514
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That schedule actually makes a lot of sense - that's a more advanced routine than I guess I expected but clearly there are some disciplined dedicated lifters around here. I'm still doing a split - push / pull / legs but I could see moving to your program actually at some point. If I had a badass home gym I'd be doing twice a days 7 days a week probably
Much appreciated man. My body seems to do well with it, again not overworking anything or at least it doesn't feel that way. Sometimes my biceps are a little sore going into shoulders/bicep day, but other then that it works pretty well. Two reasons I don't do the typical back/biceps an shoulders/tricep days. 1, splitting them up helps me get the best at of the muscle group I am really focusing on, i.e. shoulder or back. 2, size is not my main concern right now, so I am fine with working a muscle group a little more then it "should" be.

I've never gotten into the hole push/pull/legs thing, and this is mainly due to time. My avg routine is in the gym by 5:15am, cardio for 10mins to warm up, lift for 45mins avg, then more intense cardio to finish for 15mins. I need to be in the shower by 6:50 because I like to get to work right around 7 (gym is 2 mins from work). I feel like I would need around 75mins of just lifting to get through push or pull.

A sick home gym would be awesome, I'd probably use it whenever I'm bored haha.
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      09-01-2020, 05:07 PM   #2515
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Originally Posted by JP10 View Post
My body seems to do well with it, again not overworking anything or at least it doesn't feel that way.
Complete side note, but recently I read about a guy who tried a clinically tested protocol: 30 minute workout 1/week for 9 months and had larger gains than anything he'd ever tried.

Apparently the trick is you have to totally exhaust each muscle group, like to complete total utter devastation - I guess it was designed by some lifting royalty guy (obvs I don't remember the details). Ultimately he quit doing it because he feared each session due to the lactic acid pain endured for the 30 minutes.

If anyone is interested I'll see if I can find the link - overall though, just an interesting view into how the nervous system works
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      09-01-2020, 06:20 PM   #2516
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I have 7 day split.

Mon - back
Tue - chest
Wed - legs primarily hamstring
Thurs - shoulders and traps
Fri - arms
Sat - legs primarily quads
Sun - calves and forearms
Calves traps and cardio also get done randomly during the week.
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      09-01-2020, 08:40 PM   #2517
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@GrussGott I'd like to see that - I saw a guy at my old gym workout that way - he was also huge.
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Sounds pizzagatey.
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      09-01-2020, 10:10 PM   #2518
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@GrussGott I'd like to see that - I saw a guy at my old gym workout that way - he was also huge.
Found it!

Super Slow High Intensity Training:
Is 15 minutes of Strength Training A Week Enough?


Body By Science High Intensity Training Review:
My 9 Month Experiment


Book on Amazon:
Body by Science: A Research Based Program for Strength Training, Body building, and Complete Fitness in 12 Minutes a Week
by John Little, Doug McGuff
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      09-02-2020, 08:02 AM   #2519
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I read the 2nd link you provided. It needs to be understood that this guy was a prime athlete prior to beginning that regimen. At one point he was 230lbs with 12% BF squating over 540lbs.... He's not your average joe, and if he did this naturally he has well above avg test lvls because those numbers are basically impossible if you research the limits of natural body building. I'm not sure his height, but he doesn't look that tall.

He lost 8kgs of mass during that time, 17lbs. I saw he said his BF% dropped 2%, that converts roughly to 4lbs. So he lost 13lbs of muscle.... That is major loss. Again research natural limits, the first 2 years you may be able to put that amount of muscle on rather quickly. But once you reach a certain point the amount of muscle you are able to add yearly dwindles, if my memory serves it is around 5-6lbs/yr. My point, it could take him awhile to put that size back on if he ever wanted to, that is a substantial amount of muscle.

My take away from the article
1) The guy was already in tip-top shape, with substantial muscle muscle per overall weight.
2) Of course his diet was all over the place, with that amount of muscle you don't really need to care. Your body will take care of most of the excess calories when taken in.
3) He lost upwards of 13lbs of muscle, this almost makes me nauseous. It would take me 2 yrs to add that back.
4) In my eyes, this is not an effective training regimen. He could have lost the same amount of weight by doing nothing. You lose muscle twice as fast as you gain it, I've always stuck to that and feel it is relatively true.

Interesting non-the-less, but nothing to be impressed by (in my opinion).
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      09-02-2020, 02:06 PM   #2520
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My take away from the article
Another takeaway should be that he's a single test case with - as you noted - unique circumstances to him and without understanding the protocol yourself for your body, you don't really know.

I'm not advocating for it, just offering that you've made a lot of conclusions from a single person who's adherence to the protocol is based on an internet post versus you seeing / experiencing it.
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      09-02-2020, 02:56 PM   #2521
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Another takeaway should be that he's a single test case with - as you noted - unique circumstances to him and without understanding the protocol yourself for your body, you don't really know.

I'm not advocating for it, just offering that you've made a lot of conclusions from a single person who's adherence to the protocol is based on an internet post versus you seeing / experiencing it.
100% understand, didn't mean to come off harsh in my thoughts on it either. Fitness/health is such a smoke and mirrors topic that sometimes when I read things it frustrates me lol. More so because those who do not know will believe it to be true, but again this goes for that industry in a whole haha.
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      09-03-2020, 01:24 AM   #2522
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They're letting gyms open outdoor.....

okay, that shit just doesn't make sense at all. Can't really do shit.
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      09-03-2020, 10:35 AM   #2523
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Well I finally took an off day although it wasn't on purpose. Overslept and missed the gym in the morning. Planned to then go after work and something else popped up. Anyways, got back in the gym this morning for chest day, always get a crazy chest pump, feel like I go up a cup size lol. Finished with running until an abdominal cramp about took me to my knees then switched over to incline walking.

Solid non-the-less. Dropping weight too, about 9 days from vacation. Going to see if I can get my abs back lol.
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      09-03-2020, 12:45 PM   #2524
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I take 2 days off a week (Sun & Wed). I find it's better for my body. I carry a lot of inflammation if I work out constant. I was using Class Pass before Covid because it gave me variety. I loved doing Pilates Reformer but didn't want a membership where that was my only option. If I didn't have any lunch appointments I would do a workout wherever I was close to which was nice.


For the past several months I've been using weights at home. I say I've seen better results using weights more consistently. My goal is good overall tone & definition. I work out outside so I get a good sweat in. Today it was 85 but felt like 94 with 75% humidity.
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      09-03-2020, 12:54 PM   #2525
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Complete side note, but recently I read about a guy who tried a clinically tested protocol: 30 minute workout 1/week for 9 months and had larger gains than anything he'd ever tried.

Apparently the trick is you have to totally exhaust each muscle group, like to complete total utter devastation - I guess it was designed by some lifting royalty guy (obvs I don't remember the details). Ultimately he quit doing it because he feared each session due to the lactic acid pain endured for the 30 minutes.

If anyone is interested I'll see if I can find the link - overall though, just an interesting view into how the nervous system works
I heard about this yesterday. Interesting to say the least. I'll be doing some research as I find time.

I have officially started my bulk as of the first. Sadly, I dipped so low into the caloric intake during the cut, that I've made my baseline incredibly low. If I go beyond 1600 kcal/day, I gain fat. Slowly increasing my calories weekly until I get to 2300/day. I plan to bulk until the end of February or March. Stoked to see what the results will be in Spring.

Last edited by King Rudi; 09-03-2020 at 12:59 PM..
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      09-03-2020, 01:05 PM   #2526
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I take 2 days off a week (Sun & Wed). I find it's better for my body. I carry a lot of inflammation if I work out constant. I was using Class Pass before Covid because it gave me variety. I loved doing Pilates Reformer but didn't want a membership where that was my only option. If I didn't have any lunch appointments I would do a workout wherever I was close to which was nice.


For the past several months I've been using weights at home. I say I've seen better results using weights more consistently. My goal is good overall tone & definition. I work out outside so I get a good sweat in. Today it was 85 but felt like 94 with 75% humidity.
I wouldn't recommend working out each day unless you are certain your body can handle it. I've been very physically active for near 10yrs now, so my body is use to the beating. Sounds like you have a good routine figured out!

I've tried to get my fiance to use weights, but she is always concerned that using weights will make her more muscular. I keep trying to tell her that if you keep reps high an weight moderate it will tone, but she doesn't believe me. It has been an uphill battle lol. Regardless, she is lucky because she has a great metabolism and doesn't feel the need to workout.

Send some of that weather this way, it is 94 and feels like 108 haha
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      09-03-2020, 03:01 PM   #2527
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If I go beyond 1600 kcal/day, I gain fat. Slowly increasing my calories weekly until I get to 2300/day.
I ain't no expert but this is a good place to use Keto or near-keto ...

If you don't know, the theory is, you convert your body from a carbohydrate metabolism to a fat metabolism because carbs are not an essential macronutrient (i.e., you must eat protein and fat, but can live just fine without carbs ever again). There are various protocols to do this, but the easiest is to just eat mostly steak and eggs or equivalents. If you're not "fat adapted" it takes a few weeks for your body to abandon carbs as a fuel, but once it does you feel GREAT! And without counting calories (much) your body fat will simply go away.

Once your body is used to burning fat, any time it sees a calorie deficit it simply taps into your body fat stores with no decrease in your metabolism, performance or gains. It ends the "oh no I'm catabolic!" and no more blood sugar spikes and chugging shakes.

Keto ends the cycles of cutting and bulking and your body is way healthier without the hyperinsulinemia - BUT YMMV, each person is different, blah blah blah

Lots of info out there, but for a natural weight trainer looking for a simple lifestyle, it's hard to beat. This guy has great info if keto is interesting:


Calorie cutting on a carb-based metabolism resets your metabolic set point (1600 in your case) and it's very tough to get out of that cycle (sometimes called "biggest loser syndrome"). Keto gets rid of that.
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      09-03-2020, 03:10 PM   #2528
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
I ain't no expert but this is a good place to use Keto or near-keto ...

If you don't know, the theory is, you convert your body from a carbohydrate metabolism to a fat metabolism because carbs are not an essential macronutrient (i.e., you must eat protein and fat, but can live just fine without carbs). There are various protocols to do this, but the easiest is to just eat mostly steak and eggs or equivalents. If you're not "fat adapted" it takes a few weeks for your body to abandon carbs as a fuel, but once it does you feel GREAT! And without counting calories (much) your body fat will simply go away.

Once your body is used to burning fat, any time it sees a calorie deficit it simply taps into your body fat stores with no decrease in your performance or gains. It ends the "oh no I'm catabolic!" and no more blood sugar spikes and chugging shakes.

Keto ends the cycles of cutting and bulking and your body is way healthier without the hyperinsulinemia - BUT YMMV, each person is different, blah blah blah

Lots of info out there, but for a natural weight trainer looking for a simple lifestyle, it's hard to beat. This guy has great info if keto is interesting:
I'll check it out! Thank you sir! At my age, and with no prior training experience, it goes without saying that I'm a hard gainer. I've battled the losing fat while trying to gain muscle for almost 2 years now. I've seen huge results, but I'm just like everyone else; it doesn't happen fast enough. If it eat more to gain mass, i get fat again. If I cut to lose the fat, I lose the muscle I just built. I have changed up a few things this go around. I only do cardio on my nights off from lifting. I've also learned to start a cut gradually and to begin a bulk gradually.

Coming from 211 in November of 2018 to clocking 132 pounds this morning, the difference in physique is crazy. I'm slowly learning what my body adapts to the best, it's just one of those things that takes time and is trial and error. yes 132 pounds is crazy low, but I'm also 5'9" and have no prior athletic or training background at all. This is all brand new to me. All the muscle that I have is new, so it's just a slow process. The goal is to be around 145-150 and around the 10% bf range. Baby steps.
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      09-03-2020, 03:25 PM   #2529
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I'll check it out! Thank you sir! At my age, and with no prior training experience, it goes without saying that I'm a hard gainer. I've battled the losing fat while trying to gain muscle for almost 2 years now. I've seen huge results, but I'm just like everyone else; it doesn't happen fast enough. If it eat more to gain mass, i get fat again. If I cut to lose the fat, I lose the muscle I just built. I have changed up a few things this go around. I only do cardio on my nights off from lifting. I've also learned to start a cut gradually and to begin a bulk gradually.

Coming from 211 in November of 2018 to clocking 132 pounds this morning, the difference in physique is crazy. I'm slowly learning what my body adapts to the best, it's just one of those things that takes time and is trial and error. yes 132 pounds is crazy low, but I'm also 5'9" and have no prior athletic or training background at all. This is all brand new to me. All the muscle that I have is new, so it's just a slow process. The goal is to be around 145-150 and around the 10% bf range. Baby steps.
Nailed it in what I put in bold. Everyone is different. I'm not sure what I would do in your shoes. Once you're finished your cut, I'd just go into the bulk expecting to gain some weight. The goal is not to get cold feet half way in, then you'll just end up repeating without getting anywhere. Hell, I'd bulk for 8-12weeks, then see where you are at. The weight will come off easier once you've established a solid muscle base.

Regardless, you'll get there eventually. You're already dedicated to your diet and exercise, that is the bulk of the battle. Just like you said, you have to learn what works for your body. Keep after it man!
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      09-03-2020, 03:34 PM   #2530
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Nailed it in what I put in bold. Everyone is different. I'm not sure what I would do in your shoes. Once you're finished your cut, I'd just go into the bulk expecting to gain some weight. The goal is not to get cold feet half way in, then you'll just end up repeating without getting anywhere. Hell, I'd bulk for 8-12weeks, then see where you are at. The weight will come off easier once you've established a solid muscle base.

Regardless, you'll get there eventually. You're already dedicated to your diet and exercise, that is the bulk of the battle. Just like you said, you have to learn what works for your body. Keep after it man!
I learned with my first bulk. I went straight from cutting at 1500 kcal/day to overnight eating 2500/day. I got f'n fat fast! I bulked from March to June at 2500 and saw great results using calisthenics but also put on some fluff. I hate being 132 pounds at the moment, but I also look shredded at this size. I know I won't stay this size long, I just want to keep the belly fat at bay while adding muscle. I've literally gone from my belly hanging over my belt to being so close to having a full on six-pack, the V and obliques. I've gone from being the overweight guy at the gym to the younger hot girls asking me for tips with my ab workouts. I'm happy with the progress I've made, but I'm nowhere near finished.
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