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      02-13-2020, 01:26 PM   #1
dreamingat30fps
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Electrical Question

Ok so not sure where else to ask but you guys are always doing home renovations and what not so one of you probably know.

Backstory: So when I bought my house it has a big hottub in the screened in patio. That huttub ran on 220v. There is a 50 amp breaker in the main fuse box for the hottub, however there is also another box in the patio with another 50 amp breaker (which I believe is GFCI) and some big pull out fuse or something before the outside box that kills power to that. Ok so at some point we removed the hottub from the patio and put it outside in the yard. Ran the cable from the patio box underground to the area where the hottub is now. Anyways we now go rid of that tub and I have a ghetto inflatable one which runs on 110v. I would like to convert that 220v to a 110v outlet.

Here is my understanding of what I have to do. Replace the 50 amp breaker with a smaller breaker 15-20amp and I believe I only use 3 of the 4 wires to bring it down to 110v. Some things I'm unsure of are.

- Do I need to replace the breaker in both the patio and main panels or just patio?

- I would like the option of going back to 220v if needed in the future so do I just cap off the extra cable?

- Would the new breaker need to be GFCI or just the new 110 outlet I install.

Anyways I've done basic electrical stuff like replacing outlets, installing fans etc. However it's mainly just replacing stuff so its much easier when I'm just matching the old stuff to the new.
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      02-13-2020, 02:12 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
Ok so not sure where else to ask but you guys are always doing home renovations and what not so one of you probably know.

Backstory: So when I bought my house it has a big hottub in the screened in patio. That huttub ran on 220v. There is a 50 amp breaker in the main fuse box for the hottub, however there is also another box in the patio with another 50 amp breaker (which I believe is GFCI) and some big pull out fuse or something before the outside box that kills power to that. Ok so at some point we removed the hottub from the patio and put it outside in the yard. Ran the cable from the patio box underground to the area where the hottub is now. Anyways we now go rid of that tub and I have a ghetto inflatable one which runs on 110v. I would like to convert that 220v to a 110v outlet.

Here is my understanding of what I have to do. Replace the 50 amp breaker with a smaller breaker 15-20amp and I believe I only use 3 of the 4 wires to bring it down to 110v. Some things I'm unsure of are.

- Do I need to replace the breaker in both the patio and main panels or just patio?

- I would like the option of going back to 220v if needed in the future so do I just cap off the extra cable?

- Would the new breaker need to be GFCI or just the new 110 outlet I install.

Anyways I've done basic electrical stuff like replacing outlets, installing fans etc. However it's mainly just replacing stuff so its much easier when I'm just matching the old stuff to the new.
youre exterior breaker is the safety disconnect which is required by code for 220v direct wired equipment.

You can install a 110v breaker in your main panel, and put a gfci receptacle in your existing outside box. Or you can put 110v breakers in both the main panel and the exterior box and install a new outlet.

Another thing that you should do is figure out your load and distance and make sure your current wiring is adequate.

Are you getting it inspected? or just doing it? you can just cap the wire at both ends if the latter.
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      02-13-2020, 02:13 PM   #3
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sounds like a perfect scenario for electrocution
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      02-13-2020, 02:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upstatedoc View Post
sounds like a perfect scenario for electrocution
also this.

just get a pro to come do it. if youre asking these types of questions on a car forum, youre already fucked.
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      02-13-2020, 02:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstatedoc View Post
sounds like a perfect scenario for electrocution
also this.

just get a pro to come do it. if youre asking these types of questions on a car forum, youre already fucked.
Yeah I'm looking into pros also but that's another cluster fuck, most of the ones I call fall into 3 categories.

1. Wont quote me a price want me to pay a service call fee for them to come look at it and then tell me how much.

2. Don't want to do it because I ran the line outside myself and I guess they don't want the liability or what not.

3. Sound like they know less than me

What will probably end up happening is I never install shit and just keep running an extension cord from my existing 110 outlet.
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      02-13-2020, 02:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
Yeah I'm looking into pros also but that's another cluster fuck, most of the ones I call fall into 3 categories.

1. Wont quote me a price want me to pay a service call fee for them to come look at it and then tell me how much.

2. Don't want to do it because I ran the line outside myself and I guess they don't want the liability or what not.

3. Sound like they know less than me

What will probably end up happening is I never install shit and just keep running an extension cord from my existing 110 outlet.
1. fairly typical but most will work that into the final price.

2. legally they would have to remove and reinstall that line

3. doubtful
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      02-13-2020, 04:07 PM   #7
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Yeah not something you want to do yourself if you have those questions.....
But anyway, 1. You need to replace breaker at panel and get rid off the disconnect outside and install proper outside fitting and a box that supposed to take 110v outlet (and need bubble cover). 2. Yes, just cap it. 3. I would install GFCI breaker at panel and regular outlet outside. You also need to reduce the wire size ends, I doubt you can get 50amp wire properly secure at outlet and at the breaker.
The cable that you ran underground also need to be made for underground, you cant just run any cable.
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      02-13-2020, 04:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolyan2k View Post
Yeah not something you want to do yourself if you have those questions.....
But anyway, 1. You need to replace breaker at panel and get rid off the disconnect outside and install proper outside fitting and a box that supposed to take 110v outlet (and need bubble cover). 2. Yes, just cap it. 3. I would install GFCI breaker at panel and regular outlet outside. You also need to reduce the wire size ends, I doubt you can get 50amp wire properly secure at outlet and at the breaker.
The cable that you ran underground also need to be made for underground, you cant just run any cable.
Or put in a conduit.
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      02-13-2020, 04:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolyan2k View Post
Yeah not something you want to do yourself if you have those questions.....
But anyway, 1. You need to replace breaker at panel and get rid off the disconnect outside and install proper outside fitting and a box that supposed to take 110v outlet (and need bubble cover). 2. Yes, just cap it. 3. I would install GFCI breaker at panel and regular outlet outside. You also need to reduce the wire size ends, I doubt you can get 50amp wire properly secure at outlet and at the breaker.
The cable that you ran underground also need to be made for underground, you cant just run any cable.
Yeah I figured I would have to mess with the main panel, I don't really want to mess with that so will either disconnect the cables going out of the box in the patio (just for added safety it's obviously switched off at both breakers and the disconnect removed) and keep my extension cord setup, or get a pro to check it out. At this point I guess my main concern is the pros not wanting to work on it without digging up the cables we ran which I have no desire to do, that was a big project.
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      02-13-2020, 04:21 PM   #10
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Call electricians until you get a few that are willing to bid the job and decide from there. Don't mess with jack-legged electrical set-ups. ESPECIALLY around hot tubs. WTF am I reading here?!?!!

Safety first!!
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      02-13-2020, 04:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
Or put in a conduit.
I don't remember what cables we used, I think we matched what was there before, some pretty thick stuff. When it comes out of the ground we used some flexible conduit, but for the under ground run I do recall we used a hard conduit of some kind.
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      02-13-2020, 04:30 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Call electricians until you get a few that are willing to bid the job and decide from there. Don't mess with jack-legged electrical set-ups. ESPECIALLY around hot tubs. WTF am I reading here?!?!!

Safety first!!
Safety Third my friend, safety third.

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      02-13-2020, 05:17 PM   #13
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There isn't that much to bid on, sounds like $300-400 job max plus parts
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      02-13-2020, 05:31 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Kolyan2k View Post
There isn't that much to bid on, sounds like $300-400 job max plus parts
See if they could at least say that. I'm obviously not an electrician and I've actually never needed to hire an electrician so I have no idea what something like that would cost. Yet when I call and ask they are surprised I want to know how much it costs. The stuff I have needed done (not electrical) they usually either give me a quote over the phone or come out to look at it and give me a quote then. I can then decide if it's worth the $$ to me and pick whoever has the best price and/or seems the most knowledgable.

The only other people I know of that charge by the hour and have no idea how long it's going to take are hookers.

Anyways I did find one company that said they would come take a look and did not charge a service fee for it. So we'll see what they say, if it's like under $300 I would do it, more than that... I dunno... I'll hide the extension cord behind some plants or something.
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      02-13-2020, 05:40 PM   #15
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I'm an Electrical Engineer so just that you know I'm not guessing here, but my advice is what I tell anyone else who has come to me with these types of questions.

Have someone who is licensed and insured do the work. If something goes wrong, improper wire size for the current load, wrong breaker, wrong direct burial cable, etc.....and something such as a fire breaks out....your homeowners insurance will hang you out to dry as they will investigate every possible scenario.

They can be as picky as distinguishing between a "grounding" conductor and a "grounded" conductor.

It's a simple thing you are wanting to do and the general gist of it is laid out by other posters here, but doing it yourself is a liability once you open the circuit panel.

Maybe not what you want to hear, but someone licensed so you are covered can easily do this so it won't be that expensive.
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      02-13-2020, 08:57 PM   #16
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If you are in PB County I have used a good electrician I can refer. Just PM me. He’s on his own, not a big outfit, so I’m not sure how far he would travel. (We are in Wellington and he is in this area.)
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      02-14-2020, 07:35 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
I'm an Electrical Engineer so just that you know I'm not guessing here, but my advice is what I tell anyone else who has come to me with these types of questions.

Have someone who is licensed and insured do the work. If something goes wrong, improper wire size for the current load, wrong breaker, wrong direct burial cable, etc.....and something such as a fire breaks out....your homeowners insurance will hang you out to dry as they will investigate every possible scenario.

They can be as picky as distinguishing between a "grounding" conductor and a "grounded" conductor.

It's a simple thing you are wanting to do and the general gist of it is laid out by other posters here, but doing it yourself is a liability once you open the circuit panel.

Maybe not what you want to hear, but someone licensed so you are covered can easily do this so it won't be that expensive.
+1

if something was done incorrect, correct it right away. one less thing to worry about if something goes wrong. Alot of people do DIY, but its wrong, not up to code and its becomes $$ and dangerous.
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      02-14-2020, 10:04 AM   #18
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This new hot tub is for your future deceased wife? IS the insurance paid up, and are you the single beneficiary?

I wouldn't even hire my IBEW son to do this, I'd get a 3rd party that has insurance. My son wired in the doorbell, and it still rings funny SOMETIMES.
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      02-14-2020, 10:16 AM   #19
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This new hot tub is for your future deceased wife? IS the insurance paid up, and are you the single beneficiary?
Now he is definitely not hiring an electrician
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      02-14-2020, 10:59 AM   #20
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Quote:
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This new hot tub is for your future deceased wife? IS the insurance paid up, and are you the single beneficiary?

I wouldn't even hire my IBEW son to do this, I'd get a 3rd party that has insurance. My son wired in the doorbell, and it still rings funny SOMETIMES.
Please I'm not an idiot! I would have certainly tested it before letting her get in!
I believe my mother in law loves hottubs....
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      02-14-2020, 01:05 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
This new hot tub is for your future deceased wife? IS the insurance paid up, and are you the single beneficiary?

I wouldn't even hire my IBEW son to do this, I'd get a 3rd party that has insurance. My son wired in the doorbell, and it still rings funny SOMETIMES.
Please I'm not an idiot! I would have certainly tested it before letting her get in!
I believe my mother in law loves hottubs....
Test subject: selected
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      02-14-2020, 01:27 PM   #22
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You are a better man that I am ...I just don't mess with electricity--other than changing a light bulb.
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