[Haywood]

But, hey, Tesla are sooo awesome!

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesl...lls-off-again/

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Haywood

But, hey, Tesla are sooo awesome!

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesl...lls-off-again/

I read that. How does that happen???

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I read that. How does that happen???

Because their QC is shit.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Haywood

Because their QC is shit.

It was a rhetorical question not be answered.

They have also shipped cars with the calipers not loaded with pads..... How you do that?

I have never heard of a BMW delivered to the customer with non functional brakes.

[LowOnCash]

With Tesla reducing the price $10K, it not only devalues the car, but destroys the used Tesla market and insults their loyal buyers. Sure they will get some sales from it but they lost a major portion of their buyers. When you take 10 grand from a guy he won't forget it.

In my opinion, this discount only solidifies the value of their competition such as Benz, I-4, EV6, etc. I'm not finding fault in Tesla cars they are great for their cult following, however they do not compare to BMW's engineering, quality, or appearance.

GM did the same thing with the Cadillac ELR, it was not selling as expected so GM dropped the price, but in doing so destroyed all future sales.

Mike

[techwhiz1]

Tesla is offering incentives if you trade a used Tesla in for a new one.

What they are doing looks like a desperate move to sell of exiting inventory. They have a hardware upgrade coming in the ADAS system with upgraded cameras and digital radar. Also they are just lowering prices back to what they were a year ago.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Tesla is offering incentives if you trade a used Tesla in for a new one.

What they are doing looks like a desperate move to sell of exiting inventory. They have a hardware upgrade coming in the ADAS system with upgraded cameras and digital radar. Also they are just lowering prices back to what they were a year ago.

I think Tesla is also trying to unload all non-US sourced batteries before the US sourced battery mandate kicks in.

[BTDOC23]

Originally Posted by LowOnCash

With Tesla reducing the price $10K, it not only devalues the car, but destroys the used Tesla market and insults their loyal buyers. Sure they will get some sales from it but they lost a major portion of their buyers. When you take 10 grand from a guy he won't forget it.

In my opinion, this discount only solidifies the value of their competition such as Benz, I-4, EV6, etc. I'm not finding fault in Tesla cars they are great for their cult following, however they do not compare to BMW's engineering, quality, or appearance.

GM did the same thing with the Cadillac ELR, it was not selling as expected so GM dropped the price, but in doing so destroyed all future sales.

Mike

Tesla has two of the best selling cars in the entire world of any brand - luxury or otherwise.

I am a vocal critic of their failings, but we have to be honest about their unparalleled success and customer satisfaction.

And aren’t we the brand that has a recall for cars whose power completely cuts out while driving??? Just sayin

[BTDOC23]

Tesla model Y sold 759,000 vehicles up 87% yoy!!!
That’s 4th most on the planet

model 3 sold 596,000 in the year, that’s 7th most on the planet.

The i4 sold 15,000 in the US!! (And if someone can post the i4 global sales, pls do)

Millions of cars vs tens of thousands of cars?? Hmm. Which one has the “cult following”??

All before price cuts

The model S also just destroyed all competition in thr Norway extreme winter range test (model S > 530km). The i4 had 430km

Let’s keep it honest folks. I love BMW and have owned 9 of them over the last 20 years, love the competition and the future (but I know anyone telling me the Dee looks good does not share my taste!)

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by daddyrockstar23

Tesla has two of the best selling cars in the entire world of any brand - luxury or otherwise.

I am a vocal critic of their failings, but we have to be honest about their unparalleled success and customer satisfaction.

And aren’t we the brand that has a recall for cars whose power completely cuts out while driving??? Just sayin

That is true. They are the best selling, but not because they are the best.

There is/was pent up demand for EVs. To their credit Tesla helped create a market for modern EVs.

I don't get the customer satisfaction though. The quality is in the crapper. They don't use robotic inspection. Through cost cutting they have made their vehicles difficult to repair.

As far as the recall for BMW. BMW follows the guidelines from NHSTA; Tesla has not. They will push safety related software without formal submissions for a recall. Tesla does silent recalls, which other manufacturers don't dare due to liability exposure.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by daddyrockstar23

Tesla model Y sold 759,000 vehicles up 87% yoy!!!
That’s 4th most on the planet

model 3 sold 596,000 in the year, that’s 7th most on the planet.

The i4 sold 15,000 in the US!! (And if someone can post the i4 global sales, pls do)

Millions of cars vs tens of thousands of cars?? Hmm. Which one has the “cult following”??

All before price cuts

The model S also just destroyed all competition in thr Norway extreme winter range test (model S > 530km). The i4 had 430km

Let’s keep it honest folks. I love BMW and have owned 9 of them over the last 20 years, love the competition and the future (but I know anyone telling me the Dee looks good does not share my taste!)

I think your comparison is specious.
BMW entered the market less than a year ago and has had supply chain issues during a ramp.

One important note is that even though there is demand for EVs, BMW sold 2.2 million cars in 2022. Tesla sold 1.25 million Model 3/Y. Model S and X sales are less than 20k. Mercedes sold 2 million cars in 2022.

So while Tesla has stong sales BMW is still outselling them in cars at almost 2:1.

BMW expects to sell some 50k EVs this year.
Tesla sales in the real luxury market are in the crapper. For reference Porsche sold 34,000 taycans which competes directly with the Model S. Audi sold 118k EVs and of those they sold 10k eTron GTs in the US. So the Germans are beating Tesla in up market sales. As everyone ramps up EVs, Tesla will be seeing competition that was not there before.

Luxury brands are coming for Tesla and they have a difficult time competing against Porsche/Audi/Mercedes/Lucid and when the i5 makes it's appearance they will have a harder time in the Model S market segment. I'm not saying that Tesla is going out of business but don't expect their growth and profits to continue like they have.

Tesla had no choice but to lower prices back to 2021 levels to remain competitive and shed their 2022 inventory. They are going to see continued price pressure as more traditional car makers roll out their EV lines. The other issue Tesla has is dated designs compared to newer more modern EVs.

[techwhiz1]

One more thing......
https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-...-2-autonomous/

Tesla admits it's FSD and Autopilot don't lead the industry....

[techwhiz1]

Investigation into steering wheels falling off.

https://apnews.com/article/musk-tesl...956c309aeba95b

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Investigation into steering wheels falling off.

https://apnews.com/article/musk-tesl...956c309aeba95b

Tesla are reckless and complicit. Yet, people still want to buy into Musk's bullshit and buy his poorly made vehicles. Just amazes me.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Haywood

Tesla are reckless and complicit. Yet, people still want to buy into Musk's bullshit and buy his poorly made vehicles. Just amazes me.

How do you forget to put a bolt on a steering wheel?

It just amazes me the lack of QC in their cars.

[phantom701]

All of these back and forth reminds me when the iPhone first came out and how the BlackBerry and other phone manufacturers ridicule Apple.

The history has taught us that companies get disrupted and BMW could become one of them.

Some of you kept emphasizing the problems with Tesla. I agree that they do have problems. However, Toyota's EVs also have problems where their wheels were coming off.

BMW EVs had multiple stop sales because of issues. Many such threads on this very forum. Early this year, BMW EVs had recalls on their battery software.

I love BMWs but I'm not a person who blindly endorse a brand and pretend they are the best and vilify everyone else.

There's a reason why people love their Teslas, including many former BMW owners. You can blind yourself from that fact. But the BMW leadership team isn't!

Enough of the stupid arrogance.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by phantom701

All of these back and forth reminds me when the iPhone first came out and how the BlackBerry and other phone manufacturers ridicule Apple.

The history has taught us that companies get disrupted and BMW could become one of them.

Some of you kept emphasizing the problems with Tesla. I agree that they do have problems. However, Toyota's EVs also have problems where their wheels were coming off.

BMW EVs had multiple stop sales because of issues. Many such threads on this very forum. Early this year, BMW EVs had recalls on their battery software.

I love BMWs but I'm not a person who blindly endorse a brand and pretend they are the best and vilify everyone else.

There's a reason why people love their Teslas, including many former BMW owners. You can blind yourself from that fact. But the BMW leadership team isn't!

Enough of the stupid arrogance.

While BMW has had issues and I had an early E90 that went through five, yes five fuel pumps due to Bosch messing up. Also three sets of injectors. But you know the difference between BMW and Tesla? BMW stood behind the product and I got a loaner no matter how long it took to fix.

Also the piling on for Tesla is because people came here, on this forum, maybe not this thread talking about how Tesla was such a leader and this and that.

Turns out to be exactly what I said about their self driving. At the last investor call they admitted their ADAS was now behind BMW, Mercedes, GM, Ford and a couple of others. All while Elon was claiming they would have L4 last year.

If Tesla built a quality product and didn't lie, there wouldn't be the piling on. They may have had the first mass market EV and they were a disruptor. But now they are the incumbent and traditional auto makers along with others are disrupting Tesla with better product at a price point where Tesla was.

There is a reason why Tesla dropped the price and it wasn't because they are altruistic. They dropped the price facing increased competition; once again that I said would happen.

It's not arrogance, at least for me. I worked on the prototype digital radar and guess what. Tesla now has to face the fact that vision only doesn't work. Elon musk is a snake oil salesman and definitely not a good engineer.

No manufacturer is perfect, but Tesla flagrantly skits the line between illegal, unethical and immoral with their deceptive marketing.

The Toyota wheels falling off was a design issue where the co e of the lug nut did not match the seat on the wheel. That's a design issue and when they found it they told everyone to stop driving them and didn't sell any additional until they had a fix.

Tesla sold cars lacking brake pads, lacking nuts on the steering wheels, didn't populate USB connections and only fessed up when customers complained. It took a NHTSA/DOT investigation to get the Model Y recall for the steering wheel.

I have never heard of BMW, Porsche, Audi, etc not bolt a steering wheel in the car. How do you miss that when the air bag goes on after?

Once again, it arrogance, just plain sick of Tesla and the deception. The emperor has no clothes.

[Pictor]

We all need to stop comparing Model 3 and Model Y against luxury cars like BMW. These are not luxury cars. Comparing them to Honda or Toyota is more appropriate. The price drops are a reflection of that and there is still room for Tesla to move their price point down market for some of their options.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Pictor

We all need to stop comparing Model 3 and Model Y against luxury cars like BMW. These are not luxury cars. Comparing them to Honda or Toyota is more appropriate. The price drops are a reflection of that and there is still room for Tesla to move their price point down market for some of their options.

I agree.
I've had my share of BMWs and a Tesla falls very short.
I've had my M50 for less than a week and the premium I paid and the 18 month wait is worth it. A Tesla isn't in the same league, let alone ballpark.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I agree.
I've had my share of BMWs and a Tesla falls very short.
I've had my M50 for less than a week and the premium I paid and the 18 month wait is worth it. A Tesla isn't in the same league, let alone ballpark.

Congrats on the new ride! Is there a new thread about your experience of the car so far?

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Pictor

We all need to stop comparing Model 3 and Model Y against luxury cars like BMW. These are not luxury cars. Comparing them to Honda or Toyota is more appropriate. The price drops are a reflection of that and there is still room for Tesla to move their price point down market for some of their options.

Correct, I won't mind pay $25k-$30k out the door for a Tesla.

Honestly the top trim of Honda and Toyota are catching the low/mid-trim of BMW@$35k-$40k, and the current Tesla's can only go against low/mid-trim of Honda and Toyota.