[Flamesofgold]

I’ve owned my i4 for about 6k decently equipped, hk/advance assured driving/hud/365 camera/laser lights

I’ve literally have no complaints but have the opportunity to get into a barebones g80 m3 for net neutral or even possibly 1-2k cheaper.

The g80 is over 25k miles though.

I’ve owned a few m3/4 in the past. Got the i4m50 basically cause I do hate spending money on gas. However my average mileage is about to change to less than 6k a year (current is about 10)

Wondering if this is a smart move considering I have no complaints about the current car

[awaitingbimmer]

It's hard to imagine going back to ICE

[Flamesofgold]

Originally Posted by awaitingbimmer

It's hard to imagine going back to ICE

Part of it is exactly this.

The way I see it, straighline speed is about one to one. Depending on from a stop or highway is where one may be better than the other. Driving characteristics is about 65-70% of a true M car (haven’t reven g80 but comparing to the e/f m cars)

Getting both is not an option since I’m not made of cash.

I do love the the fact that I drive basically for free, and I love the low maintenance of electric. Which provides a shot eating grin when I drive

But I remember every M car and the shit eating grin is extra big

Plus the g80 doesn’t have hud. I do love myself hud lol

[awaitingbimmer]

I am still on waiting list mode but my current car is my last ICE. I can't imagine shopping for another one. My Audi A5 sportback has ~45k miles and barely driving since working at home and will try to sell before delivery of m50. I am hoping I get my m50 before holidays.

[techwhiz1]

I drove a G80 M4 right around the time I test drove the M50 at the dealer.

It's hard to compare. The M4 had a visceral feel and the exhaust was incredible.

Getting in to the M50 was a more sublime experience with speed building silently to areas that can get your license pulled and you arrested.

It's a hard choice but you gotta do what you feel. I don't think either is a bad choice. A friend of mine picked up a fully loaded 2018 M50 Competition with 5k miles last year for about $80k! I think I would have dumped the M50 order for that car.

Right now, I can't see myself buying an ICE instead of the M50. I think the M50 fully loaded with the 20" wheels is a special car. But maybe I think that because I've waited so long.

It's good to have choices and you, my friend, have a "first world problem". "What type of caviar shall I have, oh woe is me." 😂🤣😂🤣

[Flamesofgold]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

It's good to have choices and you, my friend, have a "first world problem". "What type of caviar shall I have, oh wow is me." 😂🤣😂🤣

Lol it’s not like I can keep both or buy anything I want but agreed this is first world problems.

I do agree the m50 is pretty cool. I actually had a new m3 on order before I took delivery and canceled it since I couldn’t justify the additional cost 5k (12 if u count the 7500 incentive) so decided to ditch the m3 order. The m50 for me feels about 60% if not 70% of what I would consider a “proper” M car.

Now I have a chance to trade used and close off the 30-40 percent difference but will have to pay for gas and maintenance

[unfoundnemo]

Originally Posted by Flamesofgold

Lol it’s not like I can keep both or buy anything I want but agreed this is first world problems.

I do agree the m50 is pretty cool. I actually had a new m3 on order before I took delivery and canceled it since I couldn’t justify the additional cost 5k (12 if u count the 7500 incentive) so decided to ditch the m3 order. The m50 for me feels about 60% if not 70% of what I would consider a “proper” M car.

Now I have a chance to trade used and close off the 30-40 percent difference but will have to pay for gas and maintenance

I feel you... I suppose you're just a step further. I could see myself making the switch if presented with a similar scenario, which I'm sure I could find if I went looking, so I'm just closing my eyes and not looking. I came from an F92 and F80 before that, and I feel like a G8x combines the things I liked from each of those cars, without as much compromise as I have in the i4. The i4 was a nice step down from the F92 since that too was a heavy car. I miss being able to realistically plan a track day, being able to confidently take an off-ramp at speed, having more supportive seats, having more aggressive styling, etc.

I'm in a little different situation regarding mileage... I put 11,000 miles on the i4 in 7 months so far, so drive the car quite a bit, balancing my total mileage with my X7. I wasn't putting nearly as many miles on my F92, so the i4 really took over some of the practicality duties as I was on track to hit 25,000 in my X7 in it's first year. If I were to make the switch... I suppose it's more than just gas/tires/overall maintenance as a direct replacement for me, there's potentially more that I'd miss moving away from the i4. I took 5 additional/guilt-free road trips (overnight or long weekend) that I likely wouldn't have considered if I didn't have the car. The whole charging/efficiency thing also still keeps me interested, and I'm certainly staying near the speed limit a lot more often now... it kind of feels good to be responsible.

[Laurie100uk]

I've been on the waiting list for an m50 for over a year, got bored waiting and got myself a g80 m3 whilst waiting as they came down into my price bracket. The car is unreal and is such a stand out head turning car and I really can't see myself going into an m50 now as they just aren't anything special really are they? If I'm aware enough to spot one out on the road I just think to myself "wow that just looks like any other 4 series gran coupe". If you want a subtle car that won't make anyone say "wow nice car" then go for it but I'm very tempted to cancel my order now

[X5i4M4]

I think it really depends on your situation. I have an G82 and my wife has an i4 M50 that was an abandoned order we got lucky to find. I love my G82, but with about a 70 mile round trip to work, I would lose my mind to daily that thing, especially sitting in traffic with some stop and go. The i4 is a MUCH more comfortable vehicle to be in for those situations, and why I usually daily an X5. We also love having a vehicle we can charge at home too.

Aside from the sound and feel of the G82, the i4 M50 (for me) is 85% of the way there. If I "had to pick one," especially to daily that much, I'd take the i4 M50. I previously had an F80 and F85, and aside from the daily driver category, I'd put the G82 first and the i4 M50 second on that list of 4.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Flamesofgold

Lol it’s not like I can keep both or buy anything I want but agreed this is first world problems.

I do agree the m50 is pretty cool. I actually had a new m3 on order before I took delivery and canceled it since I couldn’t justify the additional cost 5k (12 if u count the 7500 incentive) so decided to ditch the m3 order. The m50 for me feels about 60% if not 70% of what I would consider a “proper” M car.

Now I have a chance to trade used and close off the 30-40 percent difference but will have to pay for gas and maintenance

i4 m50 being 60%-70% of a true M is long way from 100% of a true M.

I think the i4 M50's 5000lb weight vs. M3 CS's 3900lb is one big difference between the 2. And I think the M3's extra chassis reinforcement makes it a better car than i4 M50 on the track.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

i4 m50 being 60%-70% of a true M is long way from 100% of a true M.

I think the i4 M50's 5000lb weight vs. M3 CS's 3900lb is one big difference between the 2. And I think the M3's extra chassis reinforcement makes it a better car than i4 M50 on the track.

I chose M50 over M3/4 after driving both back to back. I had plenty of opportunity to get an M3/4 up to an including delivery date of my car. They are different cars and do different things. They have about 80% overlap and some things the M50 does an M3/4 can't touch.

The definition of a true M is not a comparison to another M. As someone that has owned multiple M cars since the original E30 M3. It's a.mistake to define an M car by what another M car is.

M cars are the epitome of performance in the series they are derived from.

Currently you have M2, M3, M4, M5, M8, X3M, X4M, X5M, X6M and XM.
The V8 for the M5, M8, X5M, X6M and XM also appears in non-M 7 series detuned.

If the M50 can't be called a real M, then let's face it neither can any X#M. They aren't track cars.

The M50 is to the eDrive35 and eDrive40 as the M3/4 is to the rest of the 3/4 series.

If it's drivetrain then the M50 has a drivetrain unique to that car alone along with optional 20" wheels that were made for the car.

Outside North America the M50 even gets M seats.

Also the M50 has chassis reinforcement that is not on the eDrive cars.

BMW calls the ICE M models - "High-Performance M Models"

BMW calls the i4 M50, iX60 and XM the "Electrified-Performance M Models".

ttps://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/bmw-m/models.html?cid=GOOGLE_G%7CBMW%7CNAT%7CT1%7CElectr ified+M%7CModel%7CAO%7CModel+Support%7CVarious_Ele ctric+M+%7C+Brand+Core+%7C+Exact&tier=tier1&maco=n ational&ch=paid_search&veh=NA&gclsrc=aw.ds&#electr ified-performance-m-models&gclid=Cj0KCQjww4-hBhCtARIsAC9gR3Z6-6uqfuivgHI_hm2Lp7jtvtfmXw3GtIt2UXayGJqYobATdtNxi-EaAkFtEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Flamesofgold]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

BMW calls the ICE M models - "High-Performance M Models"

BMW calls the i4 M50, iX60 and XM the "Electrified-Performance M [...]

While I can agree that the i4 m50 is about 60-70 percent there even maybe 80% I disagree with it being true M.

If BMW wanted it to be a true M we would know it.

Lastly the lack of m seats is quite telling or m button modes.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Flamesofgold

While I can agree that the i4 m50 is about 60-70 percent there even maybe 80% I disagree with it being true M.

If BMW wanted it to be a true M we would know it.

Lastly the lack of m seats is quite telling or m button modes.

Well the seats are a North American thing. In other parts of the world the seats are in. Is it just the seats missing in Americas? What is an M car?

A quote from BMW M -
"BMW i4 M50.
M Performance in a completely new dimension: The BMW i4 M50 brings the classic M formula of agility, dynamism and precision to the world of electric mobility – and stands for high-intensity driving pleasure. Equipped with BMW M eDrive motors at both the front and rear axle with a combined maximum output of 400 kW (544 hp) and M specific chassis technology, it promises captivating performance while achieving a range of up to 510 kilometres."

We can argue this all day long but the M50 is to the eDriveXX as the M3 is to the 3 series.
BMW doesn't call it M-Sport, they call it M.

They list the i4 M50, iX M60, XM and M760e all as electrified M.

https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/m-po...ectrified.html

BMW calls it their electrified M lineup.

[unfoundnemo]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Well the seats are a North American thing. In other parts of the world the seats are in. Is it just the seats missing in Americas? What is an M car?

A quote from BMW M -
"BMW i4 M50.
M Performance in a completely new dimension: The BMW i4 M50 brings the classic M formula of agility, dynamism and precision to the world of electric mobility – and stands for high-intensity driving pleasure. Equipped with BMW M eDrive motors at both the front and rear axle with a combined maximum output of 400 kW (544 hp) and M specific chassis technology, it promises captivating performance while achieving a range of up to 510 kilometres."

We can argue this all day long but the M50 is to the eDriveXX as the M3 is to the 3 series.
BMW doesn't call it M-Sport, they call it M.

They list the i4 M50, iX M60, XM and M760e all as electrified M.

https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/m-po...ectrified.html

BMW calls it their electrified M lineup.

You could get M seats in a lot of different models outside of North America... that's nothing special for the M50. The i4 M50 is well-documented as an M Performance car rather than an M car. That link explains how the upcoming model will be the full M version based of the i4 M50, and even your quote mentioned M Performance (with a capital "P", so not just casually referring to the performance of an M car). It could be seen clearly in a different section than the M cars within the model lineup: https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/all-models.html

I agree it's hard to call the X//M a track car, but as is the case with all current M cars, it at least has some M sport and track modes to disable some of the nannies when at the track. I wouldn't want to see what happens in my M50 at a track with a bit of traffic (wrt emergency braking and such). It was bad enough to fight what was still active in my M8 non-comp at the track when placed in the "sport" M mode (since it doesn't have a track mode)... we didn't have to worry about these things in an E30.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by unfoundnemo

You could get M seats in a lot of different models outside of North America... that's nothing special for the M50. The i4 M50 is well-documented as an M Performance car rather than an M car. That link explains how the upcoming model will be the full M version based of the i4 M50, and even your quote mentioned M Performance (with a capital "P", so not just casually referring to the performance of an M car). It could be seen clearly in a different section than the M cars within the model lineup: https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/all-models.html

I agree it's hard to call the X//M a track car, but as is the case with all current M cars, it at least has some M sport and track modes to disable some of the nannies when at the track. I wouldn't want to see what happens in my M50 at a track with a bit of traffic (wrt emergency braking and such). It was bad enough to fight what was still active in my M8 non-comp at the track when placed in the "sport" M mode (since it doesn't have a track mode)... we didn't have to worry about these things in an E30.

So the two pages I showed had the M50 along with the iX M60, XM and M760e as part of the M lineup and they excluded cars like the M440i, etc.

BMW M called the cars "Electrified-Performance M", which is different from M-Performance models that don't make either page.

Anyway, you are right we don't have this debate about the E30 M3. I had one as a daily driver for more than a decade.

There are plenty of "M" cars and SAV that don't belong on a track. But we can definitely stop beating the dead horse.

I'm going to take my non-M M50 out and drive my kids to school and take the long way back.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

The definition of a true M is not a comparison to another M. As someone that has owned multiple M cars since the original E30 M3. It's a.mistake to define an M car by what another M car is.

M cars are the epitome of performance in the series they are derived from.

There is a long thread in G20 subforum discussing true M(high performance M automobile) vs. M-lite(performance M automobile).

One good definition of a true M s. M-lite is the VIN prefix(or World Manufacturer Identifier (WMI)) of WBS vs WBA, for German built. The non-M X vs. true M X also have different WIM of 5YM(M) vs. 5UX(non-M), for NA built.

BMWAG has been using WBS for true M car since the original E30 M3 to delineate a separate product division/product line aka BMW Motorsport GmbH. I heard there is even a separate factory/production line of the true M, but I am not 100% sure.

German built 330i and M340i M-lite share the same WBA. M-lite are "Road-ready vehicles enhanced with the epic engineering of BMW M." per BMW marketing talk, so M340i(e.g.) is a road car enhanced by M performance parts.

In contrast, true M are "Legendary vehicles fully developed and engineered for performance-obsessed drivers."

E.g. true M has extra brackets to reinforce and stiffen up the chassis from the factory, those extra components(on top of the M performance anti-roll bars and strut braces and suspension bits, etc, etc) make up the DNA from the factory that the M-lite cannot easily retrofit without tearing down the whole car.

The "Electrified visionaries pushing the limits of power and innovation." category is interesting, nonetheless the i4 eDrive40 and M50 share the same VIN prefix(WIM), so the M50 is basically a M-lite.

I haven't seen the XM VIN prefix yet, since XM is developed by Motorsport GmbH(the second one after the original E30), I would expect XM to have different VIN prefix versus i4 eDrive40/M50.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Flamesofgold

While I can agree that the i4 m50 is about 60-70 percent there even maybe 80% I disagree with it being true M.

If BMW wanted it to be a true M we would know it.

Lastly the lack of m seats is quite telling or m button modes.

Agreed, if BMW wanted i4 M50 to be a true M, BMW would have assigned a different VIN prefix(WIM) to the car.

But both i4 eDrive40 and M50 share the same WBY, so BMW treats both as the same product category. I would say M50 is basically a M-lite(similar to M340i).

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by unfoundnemo

I agree it's hard to call the X//M a track car, but as is the case with all current M cars, it at least has some M sport and track modes to disable some of the nannies when at the track. I wouldn't want to see what happens in my M50 at a track with a bit of traffic (wrt emergency braking and such). It was bad enough to fight what was still active in my M8 non-comp at the track when placed in the "sport" M mode (since it doesn't have a track mode)... we didn't have to worry about these things in an E30.

Yeah I think M50@5000lb can be a bit tricky on the track.

The same applies to a M-lite M340i vs. a true M M3 on the track, the factory DNA of road ready care enhanced by M(M-lite) vs. legendary car targeting performance(true M) is quite noticeable.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

There is a long thread in G20 subforum discussing true M(high performance M automobile) vs. M-lite(performance M automobile).

One good definition of a true M s. M-lite is the VIN prefix(or World Manufacturer Identifier (WMI)) of WBS vs WBA, for German built. The non-M X vs. true M X also have different WIM of 5YM(M) vs. 5UX(non-M), for NA built.

BMWAG has been using WBS for true M car since the original E30 M3 to delineate a separate product division/product line aka BMW Motorsport GmbH. I heard there is even a separate factory/production line of the true M, but I am not 100% sure.

German built 330i and M340i M-lite share the same WBA. M-lite are "Road-ready vehicles enhanced with the epic engineering of BMW M." per BMW marketing talk, so M340i(e.g.) is a road car enhanced by M performance parts.

In contrast, true M are "Legendary vehicles fully developed and engineered for performance-obsessed drivers."

E.g. true M has extra brackets to reinforce and stiffen up the chassis from the factory, those extra components(on top of the M performance anti-roll bars and strut braces and suspension bits, etc, etc) make up the DNA from the factory that the M-lite cannot easily retrofit without tearing down the whole car.

The "Electrified visionaries pushing the limits of power and innovation." category is interesting, nonetheless the i4 eDrive40 and M50 share the same VIN prefix(WIM), so the M50 is basically a M-lite.

I haven't seen the XM VIN prefix yet, since XM is developed by Motorsport GmbH(the second one after the original E30), I would expect XM to have [...]

There is no separate line for M production anymore.

The early E30 M30 and a few others were hand built in limited production. Later models that were low production wound up at Magna in some cases.

The M50 has extra chassis work that would be near impossible to retrof in the rear of the eDriveXX. The front also has extra bracing to strengthen the chassis for the motor and drive loads. If a bespoke drivetrain is M, then check the box for the M50 because the chassis bracing and drivetrain including motors are M50 only.

I'm not sure what the VIN numbers are for M3 vs 3 series, but in that case the the actual body is different at the rear quarters and front fenders along with a longer nose. Same with the 4. They really are not the same car from a panel standpoint. Don't know what they do with the 5 since it's a similar relationship to the 5xx vs the M5.


Once again we a debating semantics where BMW calls it Electrified M.

https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/m-po...ectrified.html

What people want to call an M or not is really academic and really doesn't affect the M50 in the wild. What's true is that you can't turn a eDriveXX into an M50 no matter what you do.

Also anyone silly enough in anything less than an M3/4 Competition xDrive will be summarily embarrassed in anything related to a drag race. So there's that. It also out brakes them unless they have carbon ceramics.

It's not a track car and truth be told there aren't any EV track cars outside of Formula E and purpose built racecars.

What it is though is an undeniably fun, high powered EV made by BMW AG that leads in it's class of Performance EV Sedans.

Right now there is no equal for price, performance, luxury and fun factor.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

There is no separate line for M production anymore.

The early E30 M30 and a few others were hand built in limited production. Later models that were low production wound up at Magna in some cases.

The M50 has extra chassis work that would be near impossible to retrof in the rear of the eDriveXX. The front also has extra bracing to strengthen the chassis for the motor and drive loads. If a bespoke drivetrain is M, then check the box for the M50 because the chassis bracing and drivetrain including motors are M50 only.

I'm not sure what the VIN numbers are for M3 vs 3 series, but in that case the the actual body is different at the rear quarters and front fenders along with a longer nose. Same with the 4. They really are not the same car from a panel standpoint. Don't know what they do with the 5 since it's a similar relationship to the 5xx vs the M5.


Once again we a debating semantics where BMW calls it Electrified M.

https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/m-po...ectrified.html

What people want to call an M or not is really academic and really doesn't affect the M50 in the wild. What's true is that you can't turn a eDriveXX into an M50 no matter what you do.

Also anyone silly enough in anything less than an M3/4 Competition xDrive will be summarily embarrassed in anything related to a drag race. So there's that. It also out brakes them unless they have carbon ceramics.

It's not a track car and truth be told there aren't any EV track cars outside of Formula E and purpose built racecars.

What it is though is an undeniably fun, high powered EV made by BMW AG that leads in it's class of Performance EV Sedans.

Right now there is no equal for price, performance, luxury and fun factor.

Currently G20 3 series 330i and M340i have WBA VIN prefix, and M3 has WBS VIN prefix(for Germain built).

Given eDrive40 and M50 share the same WBY WIM code, I don't think M50 is developed by BMW Motorsport GmbH for performance, rather M50 is a beefed up version(and M enhanced) of eDrive40 using the same sheet metal/panel as in eDrive40.

I think what others are saying is that if BMW Motorsport GmbH gets around to develop a true M version of i4, it will be so much more amazing than M50.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Currently G20 3 series 330i and M340i have WBA VIN prefix, and M3 has WBS VIN prefix(for Germain built).

Given eDrive40 and M50 share the same WBY WIM code, I don't think M50 is developed by BMW Motorsport GmbH for performance, rather M50 is a beefed up version(and M enhanced) of eDrive40 using the same sheet metal/panel as in eDrive40.

I think what others are saying is that if BMW Motorsport GmbH gets around to develop a true M version of i4, it will be so much more amazing than M50.

Unless BMW specifically states how and why chassis numbers are allocated, we are only speculating.

That being said, an E30 M3 shared the same chassis as the regular M3 and it was pulled and sent to M. The is the first real M and would not be a real M if the definition was VIN prefix alone.

The E90 M3 was distinctly different from a E90 328 but shared the same chassis designation.
Even the M3 GTS was an E92.

The F series saw a split where the F30 and F80 M saw different chassis identifiers. This is also about the same time BMW split the 3 into a 3/4.

Up until 2017 the 550 and M5 shared the same chassis designation.

The chassis designation is all over the map and can't necessarily be used as a benchmark.

We'll see but you are going to be waiting years for an i4 M50 replacement and I'm doubting you will see a 4 motor beast like they have been demoing. But only time will tell. But one thing is true. A replacement for the i4 M50 will cost more than the current M50 costs.

As a side note I just discovered that the i7 M60 uses the XE2 drivetrain of the i4 M50.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

The chassis designation is all over the map and can't necessarily be used as a benchmark.

The chassis code/designation is orthogonal to the VIN prefix aka WMI.

The true M since E30 M3 days has a WMI of WBS, and that is a clear delineation that BMWAG has been sticking to since E30 M3.

The ICE M3 and M5(etc, etc) have the same WMI of WBS even when they have different chassis codes.

My take is that XM, being the 2nd car developed exclusively by M GmbH, will have a different WMI from the non-M X as well(will c)