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      01-11-2019, 11:26 AM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
What exactly do you want answered. I thought I did. Then why do they keep discovering tunnels that have been there for a long time if they already have tech/sensors etc? This is also a response to another post.
No one said walls were 100% effective. The number we all see is 95% compared to no wall which is 0

The question I keep asking is that if no wall stops no one even if you have all the sensors and technology you want. That just notifies border security that they entered. Border security then takes them to the bus stop.

So why have the sensors? Much cheaper to just let them cross. That is my re-framed question. Like I said I invite your buddies here to better answer my question.
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      01-11-2019, 11:59 AM   #200
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Ok if the present set up actually gets anything done (I doubt they will) maybe they will have a chance but the No to anything the President wants resistance resistance ect ect will destroy their fragile coalitions and there base, again just my opinion
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      01-11-2019, 04:17 PM   #201
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Oh well, B+ for effort

Refund the wall!

https://www.businessinsider.com/gofu...draiser-2019-1
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      01-11-2019, 04:23 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Great post for political fodder but not so much for accuracy.

The picture was selected very intentionally because it shows A PROTOTYPE but not THE PROTOTYPE. That picture is of a different system than that Mr. Trump proposes.

Cheers-mk
OK, how about these?
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      01-11-2019, 04:29 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by uberschnell View Post
OK, how about these?
Sure...post a picture nearly 6 years old. That was during Mr. Obama's administration. Carry on.
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      01-11-2019, 04:36 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by uberschnell View Post
OK, how about these?
Sure...post a picture nearly 6 years old. That was during Mr. Obama's administration. Carry on.
Oops. Hahaha
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      01-11-2019, 04:38 PM   #205
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Call me Captain Obvious but it seems like people are missing (perhaps purposely) this simple concept...

Yes, you can dig a tunnel under a barrier... You can climb over a barrier... You can even cut through a barrier. But when a barrier is in place you have to do just that... you have to dig, climb, or cut to get past the barrier. When no barrier is in place you just walk on by without doing any of these tasks. 💡

Yet people still try and argue a physical barrier is not an impediment. This foolish argument makes me feel dumb just by engaging in it.
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      01-11-2019, 04:57 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Call me Captain Obvious but it seems like people are missing (perhaps purposely) this simple concept...

Yes, you can dig a tunnel under a barrier... You can climb over a barrier... You can even cut through a barrier. But when a barrier is in place you have to do just that... you have to dig, climb, or cut to get past the barrier. When no barrier is in place you just walk on by without doing any of these tasks. 💡

Yet people still try and argue a physical barrier is not an impediment. This foolish argument makes me feel dumb just by engaging in it.
Exactly.

It's like any type of security measure. They can all be defeated by a determined adversary. From the security suite on your computer to your home or business security, a determined person with intent to do harm cannot be stopped. The wall stops the casual crosser from sauntering across the border into the states to begin their illegal stay in our country. The more organized and determined need additional countermeasures to defeat their intentions. This is common sense.

Why are we still debating about this?
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      01-11-2019, 05:01 PM   #207
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Straw grasping?
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      01-11-2019, 05:04 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Call me Captain Obvious but it seems like people are missing (perhaps purposely) this simple concept...

Yes, you can dig a tunnel under a barrier... You can climb over a barrier... You can even cut through a barrier. But when a barrier is in place you have to do just that... you have to dig, climb, or cut to get past the barrier. When no barrier is in place you just walk on by without doing any of these tasks. 💡

Yet people still try and argue a physical barrier is not an impediment. This foolish argument makes me feel dumb just by engaging in it.
Exactly.

It's like any type of security measure. They can all be defeated by a determined adversary. From the security suite on your computer to your home or business security, a determined person with intent to do harm cannot be stopped. The wall stops the casual crosser from sauntering across the border into the states to begin their illegal stay in our country. The more organized and determined need additional countermeasures to defeat their intentions. This is common sense.

Why are we still debating about this?
Because liberals
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      01-11-2019, 05:19 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
This foolish argument makes me feel dumb just by engaging in it.
Tell me about it. Itís like engaging with chimpanzees...
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      01-11-2019, 05:21 PM   #210
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      01-11-2019, 05:26 PM   #211
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For funs I designed a magnetic ladder that can use the steel structure of the wall for the vertical support. It look like it would cost about $1450 to build it and should support 200 lbs per step. If you used just 3 steps, used a screw type mechanism ( very high weight capacity) and kept moving one up, it would cost about $35 to get over the wall lol. any takers?
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      01-11-2019, 05:29 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herdalum View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Ohh yes he's a giant dickhead for sure.

My point to Minn was that he at least stated he fucked up. That's rare in politics these days.

I'm no Obama fan. People like to predict that Trump will go down as one of the worst presidents in history. Not a chance. Obama was a terrible CIC that weakened us domestically and abroad.

Here is something I find amusing

Obama - nice enough guy, likable, shitty president, Terrible policies, overall disaster for America, regressive (haha)

Trump - Asshole, Dislikable in every way, policies will likely help America/AMERICANS in the future.

The amusing part is people choose based on the guy that they would rather have a beer with instead of the guy that over the LONG haul will be better for the county/CITIZENS.

Mind boggling
TDS victims choose style over substance... can’t see the forest for the trees. Would burn the forest down to save the trees.
Maybe they would rake the forest first?
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      01-11-2019, 05:32 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Yet people still try and argue a physical barrier is not an impediment. This foolish argument makes me feel dumb just by engaging in it.
I'm fearful that everybody who's anti-wall has left this thread a long time ago... but I thought I'd put a call out to see if we can put this one to bed.

Does anyone here believe, or has anyone here ever said that no wall is an equally effective or more effective way of keeping people out than a wall?

I think almost everyone here agrees that a wall alone is not sufficient to keep people out; but I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's batshit-crazy to think no wall is a better barrier than one wall.

EDIT: I don't think it's batshit crazy to believe a wall is terrible value for money, or that a wall provides no incremental benefit in this instance over a different kind of barrier (eg. a fence, a river, or sharks with frickin' lazer beams) - but that's a very different arguement from "a wall is not going to do anything at all to help, compared with having nothing"
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      01-11-2019, 05:34 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Maybe they would rake the forest first?
No, only non essential workers do forest raking. So, no raking.
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      01-11-2019, 05:40 PM   #215
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I think the wall WILL help keep people out. The morality of keeping them out is where I struggle. I think if Mexicans were wealthy and crossing the border to start a new life here, no one would bat an eye. Obviously the purpose isn't to protect us from terrorism, or because we don't have the land mass to support them or even because they're bad people. It's because they are broke and want something more for their families. All of our ancestors came here for the same reason, mine even came here illegally from Greece. If I was a poor and struggling Mexican person who saw no hope for my children to do any better, I would jump that border and try for something more as well.
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      01-11-2019, 06:10 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogeeseegod View Post
I think the wall WILL help keep people out. The morality of keeping them out is where I struggle. I think if Mexicans were wealthy and crossing the border to start a new life here, no one would bat an eye. Obviously the purpose isn't to protect us from terrorism, or because we don't have the land mass to support them or even because they're bad people. It's because they are broke and want something more for their families. All of our ancestors came here for the same reason, mine even came here illegally from Greece. If I was a poor and struggling Mexican person who saw no hope for my children to do any better, I would jump that border and try for something more as well.
So they should stop selling tickets to sporting events, because some good people that watch sports are broke and can't afford the tickets?

That's a silly analogy, but is really what you are saying. A wall is NOT immoral. If it is, then any security measure is immoral.
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      01-11-2019, 06:16 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
So they should stop selling tickets to sporting events, because some good people that watch sports are broke and can't afford the tickets?

That's a silly analogy, but is really what you are saying. A wall is NOT immoral. If it is, then any security measure is immoral.
I'm making a point about nationalism. If security was our real intention then we would do a Canadian wall as well.
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      01-11-2019, 06:20 PM   #218
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I'm making a point about nationalism. If security was our real intention then we would do a Canadian wall as well.
Is that were the problem is? Are you serious?
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      01-11-2019, 06:24 PM   #219
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If Mexican immigrants are less violent than us then I'm not sure what the problem is, it sounds like financial security is what we're defending. But that's what immigrants are doing too. and why they've always come to the US
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      01-11-2019, 06:35 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogeeseegod View Post
If Mexican immigrants are less violent than us then I'm not sure what the problem is, it sounds like financial security is what we're defending. But that's what immigrants are doing too. and why they've always come to the US
Why are you making this just about violence?

Are you aware that we are talking about ILLEGAL immigration?

Are you aware that there are processes for LEGAL immigration?

I guess since you said your family came here ILLEGALLY that is something you really don't care about.
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