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      01-14-2019, 02:10 PM   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
We haven't even discussed the cost of maintaining and repairing the wall.

That's going to be much, much more than $5b
And the $5billion is simply to start building it.
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      01-14-2019, 02:11 PM   #332
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I swear it's funny how fiscally conservative everyone is all of a sudden when it comes to the wall.
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      01-14-2019, 02:15 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
But a wall will help take a chunk out of illegal immigration which will save us billions in the long run.
That math is a joke and you know it.
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      01-14-2019, 02:16 PM   #334
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That math is a joke and you know it.
So what's a better option. Lay out an immigration plan for us that will work.
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      01-14-2019, 02:17 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
I swear it's funny how fiscally conservative everyone is all of a sudden when it comes to the wall.
I think is pretty clear it has zero to do with money and everything to do with not wanting to give trump what he wants. As an outsider looking in its very obvious.

Problem is Trump didn't exactly follow the 101 of negotiation. You generally don't shit talk the people you want something from.

Wall might not solve the problem, but it would certainly help. Democrats clearly had that position before.
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      01-14-2019, 02:19 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
I think is pretty clear it has zero to do with money and everything to do with not wanting to give trump what he wants. As an outsider looking in its very obvious.

Problem is Trump didn't exactly follow the 101 of negotiation. You generally don't shit talk the people you want something from.

Wall might not solve the problem, but it would certainly help. Democrats clearly had that position before.
I guarantee if it was a Democrat president asking for this wall it would have been a non-issue.
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      01-14-2019, 02:27 PM   #337
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The dumbest part to all this is that we are going to lose more than $5b by keeping the government shut down. Now that really is a complete waste of money.

At this point I would rather give Trump the $5b even if it only stops one person from coming in.
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      01-14-2019, 02:33 PM   #338
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At least I only play dumb.
Much like a lawyer.
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      01-14-2019, 02:37 PM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
But a wall will help take a chunk out of illegal immigration which will save us billions in the long run.
That math is a joke and you know it.
The thing is, it won't. The wall won't stop illegal immigration. That will still be a problem we will be paying for.

Meanwhile, we will have wasted billions building it. Billions more on the upkeep.

It's a simpleton's solution to a complicated problem.
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      01-14-2019, 02:40 PM   #340
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The thing is, it won't. The wall won't stop illegal immigration. That will still be a problem we will be paying for.

Meanwhile, we will have wasted billions building it. Billions more on the upkeep.

It's a simpleton's solution to a complicated problem.
How would you fix it? Let's hear your plan.
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      01-14-2019, 02:51 PM   #341
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How would you fix it? Let's hear your plan.
How about we focus on the largest single source of illegals? Those who overstay their visas. Maybe the answer is more investigators to find these people and kick them out?
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      01-14-2019, 02:58 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
I think is pretty clear it has zero to do with money and everything to do with not wanting to give trump what he wants. As an outsider looking in its very obvious.

Problem is Trump didn't exactly follow the 101 of negotiation. You generally don't shit talk the people you want something from.

Wall might not solve the problem, but it would certainly help. Democrats clearly had that position before.
I guarantee if it was a Democrat president asking for this wall it would have been a non-issue.
Pretty sure that has already proven to be true hasn't it?
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      01-14-2019, 03:01 PM   #343
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I have homeboy on ignore, but since someone quoted him, I'll respond.

You go after the jobs, period. That means you have to go after the companies hiring them. If you think they have the ability to come into the country, disappear, get a SSN all on their own, you're being ignorant.


You start to dry up the jobs, they have no reason to try to come here.

That takes government oversight and enforcement of private corporations and I know that's basically a four-letter word to some people.

That also means we, as US citizens need to be prepared to start paying more for stuff. Houses, food, etc. Unfortunately we have multiple sectors of our economy that rely on cheap, immigrant labor. If you think those industries aren't going to pass on the rising labor costs to the consumer, you're also being ignorant. Cutting into profits for them is almost a nonstarter.

Build a wall but if the jobs still exist, they will find a way around, over, under the wall.
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      01-14-2019, 03:10 PM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
I have homeboy on ignore, but since someone quoted him, I'll respond.

You go after the jobs, period. That means you have to go after the companies hiring them. If you think they have the ability to come into the country, disappear, get a SSN all on their own, you're being ignorant.


You start to dry up the jobs, they have no reason to try to come here.

That takes government oversight and enforcement of private corporations and I know that's basically a four-letter word to some people.

That also means we, as US citizens need to be prepared to start paying more for stuff. Houses, food, etc. Unfortunately we have multiple sectors of our economy that rely on cheap, immigrant labor. If you think those industries aren't going to pass on the rising labor costs to the consumer, you're also being ignorant. Cutting into profits for them is almost a nonstarter.
I agree with most of this. There should continue to be a guest worker program obviously.

Some will disagree but Americans will pay more for manual labor jobs (construction projects etc etc...) and lawn mowing. I mow my own lawn so I couldn't give a shit. I can live with that.

I highly doubt restaurants are going to double their prices because all the illegals went home.

What else is there? Not much
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      01-14-2019, 03:12 PM   #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
I have homeboy on ignore, but since someone quoted him, I'll respond.

You go after the jobs, period. That means you have to go after the companies hiring them. If you think they have the ability to come into the country, disappear, get a SSN all on their own, you're being ignorant.


You start to dry up the jobs, they have no reason to try to come here.

That takes government oversight and enforcement of private corporations and I know that's basically a four-letter word to some people.

That also means we, as US citizens need to be prepared to start paying more for stuff. Houses, food, etc. Unfortunately we have multiple sectors of our economy that rely on cheap, immigrant labor. If you think those industries aren't going to pass on the rising labor costs to the consumer, you're also being ignorant. Cutting into profits for them is almost a nonstarter.
I agree with most of this. There should continue to be a guest worker program obviously.

Some will disagree but Americans will pay more for manual labor jobs (construction projects etc etc...) and lawn mowing. I mow my own lawn so I couldn't give a shit. I can live with that.

I highly doubt restaurants are going to double their prices because all the illegals went home.

What else is there? Not much
Agreed. The worker visa program we have is what it is. I think that needs to be fixed but that's really an entirely different thread and topic.

I'm not necessarily talking about restaurants, I'm talking about our agriculture.
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      01-14-2019, 03:22 PM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
I swear it's funny how fiscally conservative everyone is all of a sudden when it comes to the wall.
I think it’s funny how fiscally irresponsible the Republicans are now, here and in DC.
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      01-14-2019, 03:22 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
How about we focus on the largest single source of illegals? Those who overstay their visas. Maybe the answer is more investigators to find these people and kick them out?
Yes please. How though. Look around most of the cities ran by Democrats are "sanctuary cities", where questioning ones legal status is verboten.
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      01-14-2019, 03:23 PM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
I have homeboy on ignore, but since someone quoted him, I'll respond.

You go after the jobs, period. That means you have to go after the companies hiring them. If you think they have the ability to come into the country, disappear, get a SSN all on their own, you're being ignorant.


You start to dry up the jobs, they have no reason to try to come here.

That takes government oversight and enforcement of private corporations and I know that's basically a four-letter word to some people.

That also means we, as US citizens need to be prepared to start paying more for stuff. Houses, food, etc. Unfortunately we have multiple sectors of our economy that rely on cheap, immigrant labor. If you think those industries aren't going to pass on the rising labor costs to the consumer, you're also being ignorant. Cutting into profits for them is almost a nonstarter.
I agree with most of this. There should continue to be a guest worker program obviously.

Some will disagree but Americans will pay more for manual labor jobs (construction projects etc etc...) and lawn mowing. I mow my own lawn so I couldn't give a shit. I can live with that.

I highly doubt restaurants are going to double their prices because all the illegals went home.

What else is there? Not much
Agreed. The worker visa program we have is what it is. I think that needs to be fixed but that's really an entirely different thread and topic.

I'm not necessarily talking about restaurants, I'm talking about our agriculture.
Yup. Guest worker program needs to be overhauled. If the idiots in Government would do their jobs it would be better for everyone.

Some argue that many industries rely very heavily on the illegal immigrant workforce and we wouldn't be able to sustain things without them. That's why I mentioned restaurants. I don't buy it. We will be fine using AMERICAN workers.

Here's is an idea instead of giving little Johnny everything he wants so he can sit on Xbox and jerk off maybe parents can have their kids work for something. Like they used to when parents actually parented.

Novel idea I know
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      01-14-2019, 03:25 PM   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
I think itís funny how fiscally irresponsible the Republicans are now, here and in DC.
We can look at the shit both parties wanted billions on and laugh but let's be real if Obama had called for this wall liberals would be saying that the $5 billion+ cost is a bargin. The problem here is that Trump wants this wall.
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      01-14-2019, 03:27 PM   #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
I have homeboy on ignore, but since someone quoted him, I'll respond.

You go after the jobs, period. That means you have to go after the companies hiring them. If you think they have the ability to come into the country, disappear, get a SSN all on their own, you're being ignorant.


You start to dry up the jobs, they have no reason to try to come here.

That takes government oversight and enforcement of private corporations and I know that's basically a four-letter word to some people.

That also means we, as US citizens need to be prepared to start paying more for stuff. Houses, food, etc. Unfortunately we have multiple sectors of our economy that rely on cheap, immigrant labor. If you think those industries aren't going to pass on the rising labor costs to the consumer, you're also being ignorant. Cutting into profits for them is almost a nonstarter.

Build a wall but if the jobs still exist, they will find a way around, over, under the wall.
Both sides might not like my thoughts on this, but I am not really for kicking out the hard working illegal. I would rather find a way to make them legal as long as they are not in "default".

At the same time I do want to limit illegal immigration crossings for security purposes. We can then focus on our visa issues.
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      01-14-2019, 03:30 PM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsaad1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
I have homeboy on ignore, but since someone quoted him, I'll respond.

You go after the jobs, period. That means you have to go after the companies hiring them. If you think they have the ability to come into the country, disappear, get a SSN all on their own, you're being ignorant.


You start to dry up the jobs, they have no reason to try to come here.

That takes government oversight and enforcement of private corporations and I know that's basically a four-letter word to some people.

That also means we, as US citizens need to be prepared to start paying more for stuff. Houses, food, etc. Unfortunately we have multiple sectors of our economy that rely on cheap, immigrant labor. If you think those industries aren't going to pass on the rising labor costs to the consumer, you're also being ignorant. Cutting into profits for them is almost a nonstarter.

Build a wall but if the jobs still exist, they will find a way around, over, under the wall.
Both sides might not like my thoughts on this, but I am not really for kicking out the hard working illegal. I would rather find a way to make them legal as long as they are not in "default".

At the same time I do want to limit illegal immigration crossings for security purposes. We can then focus on our visa issues.
You can't have your cake and eat it to. Sorry.

I think you should "sponsor" some illegals. I'm sure they would love it at your place.
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      01-14-2019, 03:31 PM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
We can look at the shit both parties wanted billions on and laugh but let's be real if Obama had called for this wall liberals would be saying that the $5 billion+ cost is a bargin. The problem here is that Trump wants this wall.
I'll give you that there is some of that, but it is mostly how the negotiation is going down. Trump want s the wall and in return he will give the Dems DACA, but also give up nearly all legal immigration as well. If you don't believe dig for the actual things that are on the table for a lot of these negotiations/bills that tend to overlap.

So wirth that in mind, how do you think it would go down if Pelosi/Schumer said hey Don we'll give you the wall and all the money you want for it plus end most immigration like you want if you give us DACA and real gun control that we want. How do you think that would go down?

Also, if he calls a National Emergency for this, just wait for a Dem Pres to do it for gun control. You guys will really be shitting your pants/foaming at the mouth then.
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