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      12-21-2021, 07:08 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOSR View Post
Jthey are worse for the environment that ICE vehicles so that doesn’t even draw me to them yet..
If you don't like EV's and that is fine but please stop spreading this part that they are worse for the environment because this has been proven time and over again not to be true.

So please stop spreading this other then that its understandable if you don't like EVs its fine :-)
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      12-21-2021, 08:24 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Meh, I disagree. You should be able to fit 4 each 6' tall people in a sedan of this length. My Model 3, which is shorter, has more rear headroom. Hell, my GTi did. And so did my Lexus GS 350.

I was really looking at an i4 with great enthusiasm. However, this is a major deal breaker. My son is 5'11". The i4 would have been my daily driver, and I don't use mine for long trips with the family. That is why we have an SUV. But we live 30 minutes outside of Houston and regularly make trips into town. With this car, I don't think even that would be comfortable. To me it seems like the i4 (and also the 4GC) is barely more comfortable than a 4 series Coupe. Which makes this form factor useless, IMO.

I get it that it works for your use case. But the whole point of buying a 4 door vehicle is that I'm using the 4 doors often. I guess if BMW made a full sedan version of this vehicle based on the 3 series, then my point would be moot as I could buy that. But they don't. They only make the iX. So if I want an EV from BMW capable of holding 4 full sized people, i'm forced into the "SUV" form factor and considerably higher cost.

Yeah, this is a big miss. It literally eliminated the i4 from my list to replace my Model 3 Performance.
By the same token, a Model 3 is off my list because it is not a hatchback. I once carried a 40 gal electric water heater in my i3s, which could not be done in a regular sedan. I have a 10yr old daughter who will be plenty satisfied in the i4 back seat. Compared to my $77k i4, the Tesla would have been the cheaper and quicker alternative to get. But the BMW is the no brainer, especially if you want HUD, laser lights, a full cluster, etc, in a 500 HP 4 door non SUV EV for much less than a comparable Taycan/Audi.
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      12-21-2021, 08:47 AM   #47
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different strokes for different folks, the i4 exists for a market, and apparently that market is there since they have to ramp up production to meet unexpected demand. Definitely a win in terms of sales for BMW, and is spreading the i-brand out and giving it more exposure that prior i-branded products didn't meet (and that's NOT to say they were bad, they were excellent vehicles in their own right).
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      12-21-2021, 12:22 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
different strokes for different folks, the i4 exists for a market, and apparently that market is there since they have to ramp up production to meet unexpected demand. Definitely a win in terms of sales for BMW, and is spreading the i-brand out and giving it more exposure that prior i-branded products didn't meet (and that's NOT to say they were bad, they were excellent vehicles in their own right).
I'm that market.

I'm the market that will buy the i4 M50, Fisker Ocean and few others.

Right now I have an order in on the M50 and a deposit to order a Fisker.
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      12-21-2021, 12:44 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
You can't call Joe a reviewer. yes, he puts a lot of time into his YT work however he clearly lets his biases and likes / dislikes show in his review. He CLEARLY thinks EV's are rubbish (just follow him on other social media) and therefore approaches his "review" with a massive slant.

I do enjoy his content when he discusses things that interest him, as I think he's much more fair minded. But a "reviewer" has to review in context. IMO, he would be better off not wasting his time on products he doesn't like or won't give a fair shake to at the outset. Doesn't really do either he nor his audience much good.
He is not a motor journalist nor he pretends to be. He has his channel, test cars and give his subjective opinion on them. He's a BMW fanboy and the only EV he likes is the Tycan so far... People trash talk him for liking every cars he drives ... Now that their are few exceptions, he gets trash too that's how the internet works i guess
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      12-21-2021, 01:01 PM   #50
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Here in Finland car taxation makes prices for high performance EVs extremely attractive compared to ICEs.
The reason is that our car taxation based on emissions.

For example:
- i4 M50 costs 67.000€ (Incl. car tax 0€)
- 440i Gran Coupe costs 87.000€ (Incl. car tax 22.000€)
- M3 Comp xdrive costs 142.000€ (Incl. car tax 48.000€)

So you could buy two i4 M50s and one basic VW Golf with the price of one M3. While i4 M50 is not a true M car like M3 it is pretty darn affordable bargain compared to it.
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      12-21-2021, 01:13 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahlem View Post
If you don't like EV's and that is fine but please stop spreading this part that they are worse for the environment because this has been proven time and over again not to be true.

So please stop spreading this other then that its understandable if you don't like EVs its fine :-)
Future is going to be with EVs, maybe not BEVs, which in my opinion are a temporary stop gap.

BEVs are marketed to lower the Co2, but we don't hear about recycling the batteries or mining rare earth elements and conditions of the mining... and guess who owns most of the mines and is lobying like crazy ? For sure they do better in Co2, now overall for the environment, ain't so clear on the long run, Co2 doesn't weight as much in the greenhouse gas effect as we initially thought.

In a few years there could be equivalent drama and shift around on those, like say for diesels and such when Co2 advantages was offset by small particles emissions.

That whole pollution story is not as clear cut as is seems, focus won't and should not remain only on Co2 (methane by a huge magnitudes is worse), it's not the main problem we now realize quite late in the game... but hey if that can make up some new taxes it's good to milk people first before we change to something else.
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      12-21-2021, 02:57 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaalrasha View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahlem View Post
If you don't like EV's and that is fine but please stop spreading this part that they are worse for the environment because this has been proven time and over again not to be true.

So please stop spreading this other then that its understandable if you don't like EVs its fine :-)
Future is going to be with EVs, maybe not BEVs, which in my opinion are a temporary stop gap.

BEVs are marketed to lower the Co2, but we don't hear about recycling the batteries or mining rare earth elements and conditions of the mining... and guess who owns most of the mines and is lobying like crazy ? For sure they do better in Co2, now overall for the environment, ain't so clear on the long run, Co2 doesn't weight as much in the greenhouse gas effect as we initially thought.

In a few years there could be equivalent drama and shift around on those, like say for diesels and such when Co2 advantages was offset by small particles emissions.

That whole pollution story is not as clear cut as is seems, focus won't and should not remain only on Co2 (methane by a huge magnitudes is worse), it's not the main problem we now realize quite late in the game... but hey if that can make up some new taxes it's good to milk people first before we change to something else.
Battery recycling is big.

Depleted batteries are being used in backup applications.

The lithium is allot easier to recover from a battery than to mine.

While a lot of EVs use rare earth minerals for magnets in the motors; BMW is using electrically excited motors with no rare earth minerals. The rare earth minerals are not necessary.

I won't argue about CO2 is not the only thing to worry about because it isn't.
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      12-21-2021, 10:27 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaalrasha View Post
Future is going to be with EVs, maybe not BEVs, which in my opinion are a temporary stop gap.
Are u referring to fuel cells replacing battery-only in EVs in the future?
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      12-22-2021, 02:00 AM   #54
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Let's not forget solid state batteries... when they eventually turn up.
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      12-22-2021, 06:14 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techwhiz1 View Post
Battery recycling is big.

Depleted batteries are being used in backup applications.

The lithium is allot easier to recover from a battery than to mine.

While a lot of EVs use rare earth minerals for magnets in the motors; BMW is using electrically excited motors with no rare earth minerals. The rare earth minerals are not necessary.

I won't argue about CO2 is not the only thing to worry about because it isn't.
Agreed.

I also think people shouldn't be comparing range, but rather mile/kwh, just like on ICE cars with mpg. It's like saying you can go 500 miles on a tank, but averaging 20mpg because you have a 25 gal tank.

Could the i4 have a larger range? Yes, but at what price given an average level II can charge at a maximum of approximately 11kw. I can't even imagine the charge time on packs such as 126kw to 180kw on some cars. I only get about 265miles of usable gas tank range on my current car (only use about 80% of the tank), 75% city driving. The range of the i4 is entirely appropriate for my needs, especially at $5.44 a charge from 10 to 100% (even cheaper if 10-80%) vs $51 for my current ICE.

The cost savings of an EV comes from charging at home, not at public DC Fast chargers. And once Solid State batteries are a thing, I feel people will be in for a big surprise when it comes to home charging them 😮
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Last edited by spool twice; 12-22-2021 at 06:22 AM..
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      12-22-2021, 10:02 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by techwhiz1 View Post
Battery recycling is big.

Depleted batteries are being used in backup applications.

The lithium is allot easier to recover from a battery than to mine.

While a lot of EVs use rare earth minerals for magnets in the motors; BMW is using electrically excited motors with no rare earth minerals. The rare earth minerals are not necessary.

I won't argue about CO2 is not the only thing to worry about because it isn't.
Agreed.

I also think people shouldn't be comparing range, but rather mile/kwh, just like on ICE cars with mpg. It's like saying you can go 500 miles on a tank, but averaging 20mpg because you have a 25 gal tank.

Could the i4 have a larger range? Yes, but at what price given an average level II can charge at a maximum of approximately 11kw. I can't even imagine the charge time on packs such as 126kw to 180kw on some cars. I only get about 265miles of usable gas tank range on my current car (only use about 80% of the tank), 75% city driving. The range of the i4 is entirely appropriate for my needs, especially at $5.44 a charge from 10 to 100% (even cheaper if 10-80%) vs $51 for my current ICE.

The cost savings of an EV comes from charging at home, not at public DC Fast chargers. And once Solid State batteries are a thing, I feel people will be in for a big surprise when it comes to home charging them
I have a L2 charger at home for my Bolt. For me 250 mile range is the point at which it works for me. I've seen that with the Bolt.

I'm going to install a second L2 charger because by 2023 we will have the Bolt, M50 and a Fisker.

We have solar, but not enough to charge 3 cars.
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      12-22-2021, 12:11 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techwhiz1 View Post
I have a L2 charger at home for my Bolt. For me 250 mile range is the point at which it works for me. I've seen that with the Bolt.

I'm going to install a second L2 charger because by 2023 we will have the Bolt, M50 and a Fisker.

We have solar, but not enough to charge 3 cars.
Your household is 100% decarbonized.
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      12-22-2021, 04:02 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianride View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by techwhiz1 View Post
I have a L2 charger at home for my Bolt. For me 250 mile range is the point at which it works for me. I've seen that with the Bolt.

I'm going to install a second L2 charger because by 2023 we will have the Bolt, M50 and a Fisker.

We have solar, but not enough to charge 3 cars.
Your household is 100% decarbonized.
I don't know about that
I still have an X5 that I'll keep and I also have a 2003 Cooper S that I'm putting together for fun factor.
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      12-29-2021, 06:21 AM   #59
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I like Joe’s reviews in general but with EVs he really needs to take off his petrolhead hat and accept they aren’t the same thing. Most people who are considering an EV and currently drive something really quick and fossil fuelled aren’t doing it for any other reason than financial benefits myself included.

The only reason this has an M performance badge is marketing and it’s actual straight line performance is up there with the M3/4 no other reasons. What he should be doing is not comparing to an M3 but comparing it to other performance EVs like the Taycan 4/4S and E-Tron GT, only then will you get a proper opinion if BMW have got it right or not. My guess is it will be close if not quite the dynamics of these two which is perfectly fine by me because this has a much better package and also looks more normal, one could easily mistake this for a 4GC.

BTW the brother has had a deposit down for a Taycan 4S CT since it’s reveal and was originally slated in for the start of the year, well that time is closing in and according to the dealer they are receiving 1 Taycan this first quarter, so lord knows when he will receive his, best guess Autumn at the earliest.

Last edited by footie; 12-29-2021 at 06:27 AM..
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      12-29-2021, 08:00 AM   #60
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He was pretty uncomplimentary on the M440i Gran Coupe so the i4 M50 never really stood a chance
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