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      08-29-2008, 04:40 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by mithiral67 View Post
How old are you? If your getting close to 30 or older, those bastards are the last to go. Sounds like you lost a decent amount of weight. I would pick up a little more lifting to put on more muscle if thats you're goal. Only time will work those love handles off.

Also, the more weight you lose, the better your body will get at using energy, meaning more sacrifices to get the same results. Make sure your goals are reasonable and wont push you so hard you burn out and give up all together.

Never use a diet or workout plan that you can't see yourself keeping up in the long run. Yes, if you push it hard in the short run to get some immediate results, but you will have to work as well to maintain it.

Im 19 believe or not.
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      08-29-2008, 04:46 PM   #46
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You know how your coaches always told you to not jerkoff before a game/meet or something? Does doing so really affect your athletic ability?

Sometimes after a really hard work out and when I know I will be hurting the next day, if I have sex or something I end up not hurting the next day, or feel like the muscle I worked out the day before isn't tight like it should be. However, if I don't have sex on the day that I worked out, the next day everything will be fine. Also, if I have sex before working out I find that I am not as strong as I would be. Is this all in my mind or is this because of the release of testosterone that is occuring?
They did a study on heavyweight boxer Chris Byrd for a show called Sport Science regarding sex pre-event. Turns out his strength improved slightly and testerone increased when tested the following day. Sex the day before an event MAY improve performance.

Source: http://www.kansan.com/stories/2008/jul/14/sports/

Last year, the cable television show “Sports Science” set out to prove or disprove the theory. Former heavyweight boxing champion Chris Byrd was put through a series of the same tests. One set occurred before sex, where Byrd abstained for one week leading up to the tests. The other tests occurred the day after Byrd had sex with his wife. The tests measured leg strength, heart rate and punching power, as well as testosterone levels.

Byrd’s leg strength on a squat machine was 909 pounds afterward compared to 908 pounds before. His heart rate remained at 180 beats per minute in both tests. His punching power, measured on a punching bag containing impact censors, was actually higher after sex (1,304 pounds compared to 1,128 pounds). And his testosterone levels were also higher after sex (462 nanograms-per-liter compared to 325 ng/l).

While the test by no means definitely answers this question, it does raise an interesting point. Can sex the night before competition actually increase performance?

“It seems to help because it relaxes you,” said Carl Inzerillo, a sports medicine specialist at Inzerillo Family Practice in Lawrence. “Number one, they get a good night’s sleep. Number two, it takes their mind off the competition. Number three, it increases testosterone.”

Cupp said that too many confounding factors were present to warrant a definitive answer.

The Journal of Sport Medicine cited time of day, frequency and duration of sex, diet, fatigue and stress as possible complications to gathering accurate findings.

“Although,” Cupp added, “you would probably get a lot of guys who would want to do the study.”
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      08-29-2008, 05:16 PM   #47
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Is it better to have a protein drink before a hard workout or is it better to have a protein drink after?
If you're eating meals throughout the day like you're supposed to, your body will be prepared for a workout. One suggestion would be to have a approximately 80-100g of a high-glycemic carb (something sugary - fruit juice, etc) immediately following activity to replenish glycogen in muscle. An hour post workout follow up with balanced meal. Balanced for each individual is different. Read about Metabolic Typing. It is an emerging look at nutrition for the individual. The days of the one size fits all diet are over. No one person is identical; one man's food may be another man's poision and lead to imbalance in the body.

I would avoid supplementation all together. Our ancestors did not supplement, therefore, you should avoid it. Supplements have not been around for a long enough time for our bodies to know what to do with them. Due to there being zero regulation in the supplement industry, there is a ton of bullcrap products out there loaded with sugar, artificial crap, and fillers. A higher power put what we need to survive on this planet; it's all we need so use it. Man made stuff is the suck.

Another note, is to not go over an hour for any of your workouts. I would cap the number of times I have activity in a week to 5 times. Stressing the body too much does nothing but put it into a catabolic (wasting) state due to excessive levels of cortisol (a very powerful hormone) so please don't exceed an hour on your workouts.

If you're serious about getting better,you may consider listening to the CD series "You Are What You Eat" by Paul Chek. Chek's book "How to Eat, Move, and Be Healthy" is also excellent.
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      08-29-2008, 05:26 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Bobby_Light View Post
If you're eating meals throughout the day like you're supposed to, your body will be prepared for a workout. One suggestion would be to have a approximately 80-100g of a high-glycemic carb (something sugary - fruit juice, etc) immediately following activity to replenish glycogen in muscle. An hour post workout follow up with balanced meal. Balanced for each individual is different. Read about Metabolic Typing. It is an emerging look at nutrition for the individual. The days of the one size fits all diet are over. No one person is identical; one man's food may be another man's poision and lead to imbalance in the body.

I would avoid supplementation all together. Our ancestors did not supplement, therefore, you should avoid it. Supplements have not been around for a long enough time for our bodies to know what to do with them. Due to there being zero regulation in the supplement industry, there is a ton of bullcrap products out there loaded with sugar, artificial crap, and fillers. A higher power put what we need to survive on this planet; it's all we need so use it. Man made stuff is the suck.

Another note, is to not go over an hour for any of your workouts. I would cap the number of times I have activity in a week to 5 times. Stressing the body too much does nothing but put it into a catabolic (wasting) state due to excessive levels of cortisol (a very powerful hormone) so please don't exceed an hour on your workouts.

If you're serious about getting better,you may consider listening to the CD series "You Are What You Eat" by Paul Chek. Chek's book "How to Eat, Move, and Be Healthy" is also excellent.

I used to run for more then an hour, almost 2 hours. But I dropped the time to only 40 mins.
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      08-29-2008, 05:37 PM   #49
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i read on more than one occasion that if you're working out and trying to build muscle, you should consume one gram of protein for every pound you weigh. I know that seems a lot but that's what i read. My co worker used to compete in the Mr. Olympia contests in the 80s and even today he takes in about 160 grams of protein daily and he's at around 225lbs. I think it's common knowledge that you should take protein shortly after working out and I've read on a couple labels ie.. muscle tech's protein that you should take some before a workout as well.

As for me I usually take protein drinks 2x a day and I try to get the rest of my protein through different foods.
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      08-29-2008, 05:39 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_Light View Post
I would avoid supplementation all together. Our ancestors did not supplement, therefore, you should avoid it.
This Paleo reasoning is beyond retarded. We do a lot of stuff our ancestors didnt do, should we stop doing these things as well?

Our bodies are a lot smarter than we are, they know just fine what to do with supplements. The majority of supplements out there are derived from or are a version of naturally occuring substances anyway.

Youre also assuming all supplements are synthetic. Whey and casein proteins, for example, come from cheese manufacturing.

I guess by extension we should also not take multi-vitamins, since theyre man-made

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A higher power put what we need to survive on this planet; it's all we need so use it. Man made stuff is the suck.
Surviving and gaining an advantage by using supps are not the same thing. And what about people who require synthetic medications to life-threatening manage health conditions? I guess they should just stick to what that higher power put here?
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      08-29-2008, 05:51 PM   #51
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damn, theres alot of bodybuilder nutritionist on here. Lets see some before and after pic
to go with all the great recomendations!
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      08-29-2008, 05:54 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_Light View Post
I would avoid supplementation all together. Our ancestors did not supplement, therefore, you should avoid it. Supplements have not been around for a long enough time for our bodies to know what to do with them. Due to there being zero regulation in the supplement industry, there is a ton of bullcrap products out there loaded with sugar, artificial crap, and fillers. A higher power put what we need to survive on this planet; it's all we need so use it. Man made stuff is the suck.
You mean dont take the protein and creatine found in meats and nitric oxide produced by our own human bodies? Yep, lay off that crazy stuff our bodies have never seen before.
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      08-29-2008, 06:15 PM   #53
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Wow, lots of broscience on here, huh?

I am by no means an expert, but I have been lifting for the past two years, and have only recently (the past 6 months or so) become an absolute nut when it comes to eating right, lifting HARD, and educating myself on what it actually takes to make your body grow.

First off, you need to find a workout routine that works for you, and there are a TON of different opinions on what is optimal for muscle growth, but I can say with certainty that if you want to grow you need to switch up your routines from week to week or else you will very soon hit a plateau once you are past your "noob gains" phase (ie. when you first start working out and even if your diet is relatively bad, you can still gain muscle while dropping fat). Personally, I have never liked full body workout that some people swear by, I think they blow, period. I like to do a 4 day split for lifting with 3 days of cardio worked in during the week. For example...

Mon - Back/abs/cardio
Tues - Chest/cardio
Wed - Legs/Shoulders
Thurs - Arms/abs
Fri - Off
Sat - Cardio (HIIT cardio)
Sun - Off

Also, keep in mind that going up in weight is nothing if you don't have proper form. It is always better to use the correct form during an excercise, even if that means using less weight the correct way. Just look around the gym and 9 out of 10 people are doing curls with their back or bench pressing half with their shoulders/tris instead of isolating anything. In any case, it took me a while to realize that I was one of those tards who was bench pressing more weight by using my shoulders more than my chest or doing pull downs for my back at a 45 degree angle like an idiot because that's what I saw the other morons doing, and I didn't have the education at the time to know any better. In any case, through using proper form on all of my sets it has helped greatly with my results.

The next bit of advice that I would give you, and this is MUCH more important than any supplement under the sun that you will take, is that you NEED to have your diet in check if you want to see results from what you are doing in the gym. Remember, supplements are just that, DIETARY supplements that are meant to SUPPLEMENT your diet, not replace it with magical pills or powders. Certain supplements can certainly help you in breaking through a plateau, but they are nothing compared to a well balanced diet that is based around YOUR goals. By your goals I mean that it is very important for you to decide what you want to do with your body. Ideally, we would all like to gain nothing but lean mass, and shred fat at the same time, but unfortunately in the real world those type of gains take an extermely long time to achieve, and are pretty hard to attain at the same time (noob gains aside). It is much more effective for you to either decide to "bulk" or to "cut" and base your diet around those goals. Bulking is essentially eating "X" amount of calories above your daily caloric maintenance needed to stay at your current weight (usually 500 cals over is good for 1lb/week gain), while cutting is the exact opposite with taking in less calories than are needed to maintain your current body weight (300-500 cals under maintenance is a good starting point). To determine your daily caloric intake the following link is very useful...

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=107459791

Once I got my diet in check I started to finally make some real progress from the effort that I was putting in the gym. I have always been a relative thin guy, and for the past six months I was stuck at 155lbs (I'm 5'9" or so btw). I started bulking around two months ago, eating 500 cals above maintenance daily (3,000 cals per day for me), and I have been gaining a steady 1lb/week for the past two months (I am currently at 163lbs). I have been doing a "clean bulk" where I am trying to minimize fat gains as much as possible, while supplying enough cals for my body to put on optimal lean mass, and although I haven't tracked my BF I can say that I doubt I have gained much at all so far, but I have been making nice gains in size and having strength increases that I never thought I could attain. My plan is to bulk up to 175, and then determine from there if I want to cut or continue getting bigger. In any case, the point is that your diet will either make or break you when it comes to seeing results from the long hours that you are putting in at the gym. Also, when it comes to nutrition there are 1,000 different opinions on what type of macros you should be taking in (I prefer a 40/40/20 split between Pro/Carb/Fat, but as I continue to up my cals that becomes unrealistic as 250g+ protein for a 160-ish lb person is retarded so I have adjusted it accordingly). Basically, you want to make sure that you are meeting your daily protein requirements where you should shoot for 1g-1.5g of protein for every lb of bodyweight, then you need to make sure that you are taking in enough GOOD FATS which should be 20-25% of your daily caloric intake (and I can't stress this enough because some idiots think that taking in omega 3,6,9's and other healty monounsaturated dietary fats will lead to weight gain), and you can take the rest in carbs. I prefer to eat relatively clean so if you have any questions about nutrition I would be happy to help out if I can and give you some ideas on what foods you can eat to help form a balanced diet.

Finally, as far as supplements go there are 10 billion different products out there that will claim to turn you into arnold himself by the end of the bottle, but if you stick to the basics you can actually get your money's worth. The essentials IMO are a good multivitamin (ON opti-men or NOW Adam are good), Fish Oil (any brand really), whey protein (ON is very good, but I also like dymatize, but there are several good options, and no, muscle milk isn't one of them ), glucosamine (great for your joints), creatine (I prefer Universal Storm, but Controlled Labs Green Mag is also very good, and unlike some of the BS that you might hear you won't get massive "bloat" from taking newer forms of creatine unlike monohydrate, but you will get very good gains from having high ATP reserves, and these are gains that you will keep as its not just water weight like some people claim), and some type of protein blend (ON nitrocore 24 or dymatize 12 hour are some examples, but basically any qualtiy whey/casein/egg blend that you can use either pre workout/pre bed or any other time during the day that you are using a protein shake as more of a meal replacment where you don't want only whey that is a fast digesting protein (20-30 min digestion rate) for post workout. Sure, there are also Stims/NO products, fat burners, prohormones, etc, but you should have all of your bases covered with the basics IMO.

Get your diet on track, lift HARD, and you will make gains.
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      08-29-2008, 06:44 PM   #54
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Cool, thanks for the info Suareezay and Bobby_Light.

Also, nice post BoostedBMW...I can definitely relate to a lot of things you mentioned.

I have been taking Truemass by BSN, a lean mass weight gainer, for a few months now. I can say that adding these to my diet plan has definitely helped me bulk up and also get stronger. Lately I have only been able to have 1 shake a day, but I should at least be bumping that up to 2 shakes a day soon. The only thing that sucks about protein shakes is that they are so much liquid it fucks up my stomach sometimes.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but BoostedBMW, do you know of any quick cook recipies that can be made that are healthy and good for "bulking"? I am in college so I don't have a lot of time to spend cooking. Keep in mind I have a stove and a microwave (it toasts, bakes, and microwaves), no oven. Any help for me?

Something easy for me, but often gets boring very quickly is boneless, skinless Chicken breast with some garlic salt and pepper on it cooked in a pan, and making a sweet potatoe in the microwave, with brown rice cooking on the stove.
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      08-29-2008, 06:59 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suareezay View Post
This Paleo reasoning is beyond retarded. We do a lot of stuff our ancestors didnt do, should we stop doing these things as well?

Our bodies are a lot smarter than we are, they know just fine what to do with supplements. The majority of supplements out there are derived from or are a version of naturally occuring substances anyway.

Youre also assuming all supplements are synthetic. Whey and casein proteins, for example, come from cheese manufacturing.

I guess by extension we should also not take multi-vitamins, since theyre man-made
Before 1920, there were NO heart attacks in the US. Why? Because man made bullshit didn't exist prior to that time. As soon as man made products poked their head out, our health began to deteriorate. Here is an exerpt from a Paul Chek article describing this.

"First, let’s look at the issue from a perspective of natural history. Our evolution into the human species from our ape ancestors is thought to have occurred some 2.8 million years ago. Spanning the duration of this vast period, it should strike you as interesting that the first reported heart attack in the U.S. occurred in 1920, only 12 years after the grain industry began hydrogenating plant and grain oils. Now, I personally find it interesting that there is such hype over cardiovascular exercise as necessary prevention for heart attack or even heart disease, when such diseases were relatively nonexistent less than 100 years ago. That’s but a flash in the pan of human evolution."

Do as you wish. You proved my point when you mentioned manufacturing. I am aware of where casein and whey come from. The majority of supplements are not from naturally occurring anything. They are full of crap - artificial flavors, artificial colors, preservatives, sugars, etc.

Multi vitamins made for everyone should be used with caution. Individual vitamins and mineral supplements should also be taken only when suggested by a knowledgeable professional as minerals and vitamins do not occur alone in nature; they are ALWAYS part of a complex.

The use of synthetic supplements and processed foods puts the body out of balance. I am not against all supplements, but many people take supplements without any regard for what they really need. All you need is available from things made by the Earth. In the 1930s, Weston Price did studies on isolated, pre-industrialized cultures all over the world. He found that people who adhered to their native diets were free from physical degeneration, structural deformities, and disease. When modern eating habits were later introduced to these people, their health declined dramatically and multiple structural deformities and disease resulted (within a SINGLE generation).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suareezay View Post
Surviving and gaining an advantage by using supps are not the same thing. And what about people who require synthetic medications to life-threatening manage health conditions? I guess they should just stick to what that higher power put here?
The people that have a life threatening condition likely had imbalance created by poor dietary and lifestyle choices. Eating processed garbage creates imbalance in the body which if unchecked leads to disease. Have you looked at the back of the labels on processed goods? The US is the second fattest country in the world behind Australia which has unfortunately adopted a western diet. I work with people nearly everyday that take medications that have their body completely out of whack. Medications treat symptoms, not the root cause of problems which is likely something to due with poor nutrition which leads to abnormal cell function. Until the root cause of the issues is addressed, medications do nothing but hide symptoms and keep people alive.

On the other hand, if someone is in a serious accident I understand the need for synthetic drugs to keep them stable. However, this doesn't mean these medications are good for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mithiral67 View Post
You mean dont take the protein and creatine found in meats and nitric oxide produced by our own human bodies? Yep, lay off that crazy stuff our bodies have never seen before.
When was the last time you saw creatine powder in your red meat? How about (chocolate) protein powder coming out of your chicken breast? Ignorance is bliss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OO---OO View Post
damn, theres alot of bodybuilder nutritionist on here. Lets see some before and after pic
to go with all the great recomendations!
I don't have before and after pics nor do I intend to take pictures. I certainly wouldn't put a pic of myself with my shirt off as my avatar on a car forum.

Last edited by Bobby_Light; 08-30-2008 at 10:56 AM.
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      08-29-2008, 07:03 PM   #56
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Oh to the guy who asked for before and after pictures. I have been thinking about this for a while. I once saw these vids on the net of these people who strung a boatload of pictures of themselves together. I am going to do the same this year. Will place the tripod with camera on it in the same spot in my room and take a pic every day with my shirt off. I want to see how I change in face/body at the end.
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      08-29-2008, 07:28 PM   #57
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Lol, that stuff is crap.
kidding me? I played (DIII) College football and using a 16oz shake as a snack inbetween meals had me at a cut up 230, Im down to 205, post football years but that is amazing stuff, and taste like a milk shake, no lie.



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      08-29-2008, 10:26 PM   #58
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ALL NATURAL BABY. fuck all dat other shit
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      08-29-2008, 10:38 PM   #59
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From my personal experience I find that natural protein is much more effective then artificial WHEY protein. I tend to eat a lot of meats (mostly white meats) after a workout and the results aren't bad at all. Just remember not to mix protein and carbs. Carbs make it harder for your body to break down the protein. As for your question I find it more effective to consume through out the day, but also a lot right after a workout.
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      08-29-2008, 10:39 PM   #60
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Whats that?
Dextrose is just a simple fast acting carbohydrate. White rice, white bread, pasta, etc. can be substituted if you don't have dextrose.
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      08-29-2008, 11:08 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_Light View Post
Before 1920, there were NO heart attacks in the US. Why? Because man made bullshit didn't exist prior to that time. As soon as man made products poked their head out, our health began to deteriorate. Here is an exerpt from a Paul Chek article describing this.

"First, let’s look at the issue from a perspective of natural history. Our evolution into the human species from our ape ancestors is thought to have occurred some 2.8 million years ago. Spanning the duration of this vast period, it should strike you as interesting that the first reported heart attack in the U.S. occurred in 1920, only 12 years after the grain industry began hydrogenating plant and grain oils. Now, I personally find it interesting that there is such hype over cardiovascular exercise as necessary prevention for heart attack or even heart disease, when such diseases were relatively nonexistent less than 100 years ago. That’s but a flash in the pan of human evolution."

Do as you wish. You proved my point when you mentioned manufacturing. I am aware of where casein and whey come from. The majority of supplements are not from naturally occurring anything. They are full of crap - artificial flavors, artificial colors, preservatives, sugars, etc.

Multi vitamins made for everyone should be used with caution. Individual vitamins and mineral supplements should also be taken only when suggested by a knowledgeable professional as minerals and vitamins do not occur alone in nature; they are ALWAYS part of a complex.

The use of synthetic supplements and processed foods puts the body out of balance. I am not against all supplements, but many people take supplements without any regard for what they really need. All you need is available from things made by the Earth. In the 1930s, Weston Price did studies on isolated, pre-industrialized cultures all over the world. He found that people who adhered to their native diets were free from physical degeneration, structural deformities, and disease. When modern eating habits were later introduced to these people, their health declined dramatically and multiple structural deformities and disease resulted (within a SINGLE generation).



The people that have a life threatening condition likely had imbalance created by poor dietary and lifestyle choices. Eating processed garbage creates imbalance in the body which if unchecked leads to disease. Have you looked at the back of the labels on processed goods? The US is the second fattest country in the world behind Australia which has unfortunately adopted a western diet. I work with people nearly everyday that take medications that have their body completely out of whack. Medications treat symptoms, not the root cause of problems which is likely something to due with poor nutrition which leads to abnormal cell function. Until the root cause of the issues is addressed, medications do nothing but hide symptoms and keep people alive.

On the other hand, if someone is in a serious accident I understand the need for synthetic drugs to keep them stable. However, this doesn't mean these medications are good for them.
Paul Chek is lunatic nutjob. You could get the same advice from residents at a mental institution. Quoting him in a discussion is worse than an ad hominem.

There is also a difference between living a healthy lifestyle and using supplements - which is what I am talking about -, and living like an average 'Merican and subsisting off McDonalds and Oreos - which what you apparently believe me to be talking about.
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      08-29-2008, 11:09 PM   #62
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Listen to BoostedBMW's post. He speaks the truth Broscience 4tl. As far as your original question, read this post: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=272067. It will answer all your questions about pre/post workout nutrition.

The only thing I'd like to add is once you figure how how many calories you need per day, it tends to be easier to break them down into 'macros' (nutrients needed in large quantities). Keep in mind this isn't exactly "required" per say and the breakdowns you use are totally up to you, but it makes figuring out your general daily caloric intake much easier.

Personally I'm a fan of 40/40/20. For me it's a good overall macro that I can use to both bulk and cut. Basically, 40% of my calories come from protein, 40% from carbs, and 20% from fats. Also...

1g protein = 4 calories
1g carbs = 4 calories
1g fat = 9 calories

If you're attempting to bulk and your maintenance target is 2500, you need about a surplus of 500 calories as Boosted mentioned. So, assume you chose to use the 40/40/20 breakdown, here would be your daily values (3000 calories):

1200 protein
1200 carbs
600 fats

And here are those values in grams:

300g protein
300g carbs
67 fats

If you feel you can't consume that much protein per day, you can do whatever variation you prefer...30/50/20, 30/40/30, doesn't really matter because there's no one 'best' macro. Just make sure you have enough protein =) And you can split those values up however you want into as many or as little meals as you want.

Btw, after you loose large amounts of weight quickly, it's quite common to have to have a combination of loose skin with fat underneath the surface...aka skinny fat. It's a bitch and there's really not much you can about it at the moment (unless you want to consider a tummy tuck). Personally, I'd recommend a nice LONG clean bulk to fill out your frame, then try cutting again.

Last edited by hayjoelb; 08-29-2008 at 11:28 PM.
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      08-29-2008, 11:28 PM   #63
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oh, epeen time, done with this thread. Best of luck OP.
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      08-30-2008, 12:21 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_Light View Post
I don't have before and after pics nor do I intend to take pictures. I certainly wouldn't put a pic of myself with my shirt off as my avatar on a car forum. Here I am LOOKING MAD SKINNY with the LA Avengers.
lol, I can see why you wouldnt post any pix with your shirt off.

































...I wouldnt either.
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      08-30-2008, 12:39 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Suareezay View Post
Paul Chek is lunatic nutjob. You could get the same advice from residents at a mental institution. Quoting him in a discussion is worse than an ad hominem.

There is also a difference between living a healthy lifestyle and using supplements - which is what I am talking about -, and living like an average 'Merican and subsisting off McDonalds and Oreos - which what you apparently believe me to be talking about.
Chek is well-educated man with speaking engagements all over the world regarding health, wellness, holistic healing, and fitness training. The book and articles he has written are exceptional. Chek has his own multi-level certification. Not many individuals can say that. Chek is right on about a lot of things. Spiritually he can be out there at times, but you cannot deny he is in incredible shape for his age and he can physically out duel people 20+ years his junior.

Whether a healthy person is taking them or not, supplements are processed, piecemeal garbage a lot of the time. Their health benefits need to be called into question. Evolutionarily speaking, they are new substances for the body. We are used to substances that the supplements try to mimic being in their natural state, not as powders or suspended in liquid. When it comes down to it, eating a chicken breast (organic, free range of course) is superior to drinking a whey protein shake in my opinion.
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      08-30-2008, 12:43 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by OO---OO View Post
lol, I can see why you wouldnt post any pix with your shirt off.
Go set the timer on you camera for another avatar pic. I have an athletic build. I am a receiver in professional football.
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