[cc3]

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http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Se...ric-cars-need/

[3toM]

All batteries will become obsolete over time. I expect probably we will be seeing an i3 with double the range in its next iteration, at the same cost. That's why it makes more sense to lease an electric than buy it for now.

[JasH]

It really will not be a big deal to swap out the batteries in an i3 in 10-12 years time with the latest technology ones. Probably get more range and/or lighter weight as a result.

The i3 being aluminium and carbon fibre should then be almost like new again

[ORIGIN M.]

The batteries in my keyboard may soon be obsolete.

[MattBianco]

Originally Posted by JasH

It really will not be a big deal to swap out the batteries in an i3 in 10-12 years time with the latest technology ones. Probably get more range and/or lighter weight as a result.

The i3 being aluminium and carbon fibre should then be almost like new again

A very optimistic view, but I have never seen a car company roll out tech improvements that are backward compatible. There simply is no financial incentive.

If in the future they release an updated battery that adds 10% to the range that would be great. Whole new technology? I don't think so. Also, in 10-12 years the rest of the car is likely nearly obsolete.

Even today's batteries cost about $8k excluding install, disposal fee of old batteries (a cost that will eventually be added), new wiring harnesses, etc. Also, add new software, new controllers, new battery safety box.....It is much more involved than what it may seem at first.

Parts diagram showing cost per module.

[MalibuBimmer]

The concern trolling is precious.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

The concern trolling is precious.

Well BMW said themselves pushing the reverse compatible nature of the design.

Personally if a company can create a product that doesn't need to be refreshed every 4 years it's more profitable. If they don't need to update the tooling for the batteries and holder it's better for them and the customer .

I'm a designer at an OEM transportation company and we strive to create parts that can last for decades before being refreshed.

The exterior and interior facade can change but the bones can last for years and years without needing updating.

It's all part of smart design.

[jadnashuanh]

I'd be surprised if someone, that may include BMW, did not offer battery upgrades for the i3 as the ones in it start to degrade enough for people to consider it. It also wouldn't surprise me, with the bolt-on panels, that you could update the look of the vehicle if you wished as well.

Even when the i3's batteries can only hold the 70% BMW considers 'failed', there is a LOT of life left in them. If you read the press reports, BMW has started a reuse program for them to provide backup power banks. They would be ideal, verses lead-acid batteries, for your PV panel array, or a wind turbine. As a result, there is still a lot of value in the things, and there should be a decent 'core' charge available when turning in a set.

[MattBianco]

I think it is a great car as is, without hope for tech/battery upgrades. As others have chimed in battery improvement is part of the evolution. Holding out from buying a car one wants now because something better will come along in a few years would be an unhappy existence for me.

[boggtj01]

Originally Posted by MattBianco

A very optimistic view, but I have never seen a car company roll out tech improvements that are backward compatible. There simply is no financial incentive.

If in the future they release an updated battery that adds 10% to the range that would be great. Whole new technology? I don't think so. Also, in 10-12 years the rest of the car is likely nearly obsolete.

Even today's batteries cost about $8k excluding install, disposal fee of old batteries (a cost that will eventually be added), new wiring harnesses, etc. Also, add new software, new controllers, new battery safety box.....It is much more involved than what it may seem at first.

Parts diagram showing cost per module.

I think you've forgotten that Tesla just rolled out newer battery technology in addition to some other improvements for the Roadster which it no longer produces.

So, yes, there is a possibility that the advancement in battery technology could be compatible with current generation electric vehicles.

[Kiwi]

Their is going be huge battery improvements by the time the face lift come out. Tesla has an announcement coming for home batteries in the next 3 weeks. BMW is new to battery cars and changes will come thick and fast as well pricing dropping or with more accessories free which is BMW's way.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by Kiwi

BMW is new to battery cars

BMW is not new to battery cars as they have made them for over 40 years now, they have had a rich history with battery vehicles dating back to 1972. .

True mini and 1 series were just a test bed leading up to this car but all together they have put probably more R&D into this car than many other OEM's to date.



http://www.businessinsider.com/bmw-h...c-cars-2012-12

[Kiwi]

Originally Posted by -c-

BMW is not new to battery cars as they have made them for over 40 years now, they have had a rich history with battery vehicles dating back to 1972. .

True mini and 1 series were just a test bed leading up to this car but all together they have put probably more R&D into this car than many other OEM's to date.



http://www.businessinsider.com/bmw-h...c-cars-2012-12

I didn't know this:- interesting

[JasH]

Originally Posted by MattBianco

A very optimistic view, but I have never seen a car company roll out tech improvements that are backward compatible. There simply is no financial incentive.

If in the future they release an updated battery that adds 10% to the range that would be great. Whole new technology? I don't think so. Also, in 10-12 years the rest of the car is likely nearly obsolete.

Actually, my view is realistic. Yours is overly pessimistic.

Heard of Tesla? Their first car I drove was based on the Elise chassis, and called the Roadster. Up to 200 mile range if I recall. Tesla no longer make this car, but they recently announced a retrofit battery upgrade to at least double the range.

Obsolete i3? I own a series 1 Exige. A car that is about 15 years old now. Nothing about that car is obsolete, and some of its construction tech is still ahead of what Ferrari do in their newly announced F488 GTB due 2015/16. I refer to the bonded aluminium chassis. Now that Exige is made of aluminium and fibreglass. Very little steel anywhere to rust.

If the Exige is still cutting edge in many ways, what about a carbon fibre and aluminium car that is also ahead of its time like the i3?

You really are a glass half full person

[MattBianco]

Originally Posted by JasH

Actually, my view is realistic. Yours is overly pessimistic.
.....You really are a glass half full person

You raise great points. I hope the retrofit approach is embraced and offered in reasonable terms. For now, lets wait until Tesla actually release the new battery and tells us the cost. So far it is a press release, a Musk core skill.

You can't over look the fact that manufacturers seldom offer retrofits. How many cars from 2006-2012 could use a radio/bluetooth/navi retrofit? Nearly all of them, and none offered by the manufacturers. For repairs they still sell the original components for $1500-2500 (as nothing with the electronics is practically repairable), when they can make new units that do more with bluetooth, screen resolution, map informant, etc. Also applies to headlight housing retrofits that should be LED as soon as the cost comes down in 2-3 years.

The glass is twice as large as it should be.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by MattBianco

You raise great points. I hope the retrofit approach is embraced and offered in reasonable terms. For now, lets wait until Tesla actually release the new battery and tells us the cost. So far it is a press release, a Musk core skill.

You can't over look the fact that manufacturers seldom offer retrofits. How many cars from 2006-2012 could use a radio/bluetooth/navi retrofit? Nearly all of them, and none offered by the manufacturers. For repairs they still sell the original components for $1500-2500 (as nothing with the electronics is practically repairable), when they can make new units that do more with bluetooth, screen resolution, map informant, etc. Also applies to headlight housing retrofits that should be LED as soon as the cost comes down in 2-3 years.

The glass is twice as large as it should be.

Well you should know BMW is very big with retrofitting, look up stuff on realoem.com and you'll see lots of retrofit able stuff for their cars.

Big money in it for dealers and BMW alike. In fact theirs lots of money in retrofitting a car that has been purchased and long been paid off. As BMW can charge to give that car a second life. The fact it will never rust to the ground makes it a solid car to invest in the long term, at least in the northern states.

It's the same with video game companies making expandable downloadable content for their games so even though you bought the game they can still make money off you as you buy more cars and tracks Ect. They will still make new games but their making a game that would just have garnered 60 dollars turn into a game that can double its price point as the customer keeps wanting to expand the game he loves....

The base structure of a normal car will last probably a few facelifts or more usually a decade before updating as that's been BMW norm but that's usually with steel, the investment of the carbon life module may mean even longer life cycle and if BMW can install new technology in the same footprint or adapt it to the same footprint without retooling a new base they will.

Even if they redesigned the life module the aluminum battery tray may be able to carry over from one model to the next.

I don't think this car can be looked at the same way as other more normal everyday vehicles as this is not a normal product.

Again just speculation on my part. Everyone's entitled to their opinion whether it's right or wrong

[JasH]

Originally Posted by -c-

Well you should know BMW is very big with retrofitting

And I would argue that BMW are far more likely to want to retrofit the i cars, as it fits in with their minimising carbon footprint, and recycling ethos. Great PR at the very least

[-c-]

Originally Posted by JasH

And I would argue that BMW are far more likely to want to retrofit the i cars, as it fits in with their minimising carbon footprint, and recycling ethos. Great PR at the very least

Yep!

[MattBianco]

Originally Posted by -c-

Well you should know BMW is very big with retrofitting, look up stuff on realoem.com and you'll see lots of retrofit able stuff for their cars. ....

Realoem.com and dealers sell upsells and upgrades -you can tune your car. They have never replaced broken or obsolete pieces with improved versions, unless so mandated by a soft (internal) or hard recall. Technology improvements are not delivered backward compatible. Even the 6WB instrument cluster that is a standard in some cars and some models today in ROW, has been rolled out as an upgrade (two years later, last Nov.), but not a replacement for failing clusters in the US (nearly a plug and play + 15 minutes of coding). No one can get a higher resolution iDrive screen or Connected Drive for their 5 year old BMW, because it is not produced.

To speculate that BMW will offer better batteries as the current ones degrade or fail is just that, speculation. Sure, I expect them try to up-sale more power. My dealer has always done that to every BMW i have had (M Performance Power Kits -performance tuning chips). Can market competition drive makers to do so in the future? Hopefully and certainly possible.

Finally test drove (8 miles) the i3 yesterday. My first electric experience as the drive. Drove freeway, hills, flats....loved the REx it as it is without hope of longer ranger or more power.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by MattBianco

Realoem.com and dealers sell upsells and upgrades -you can tune your car. They have never replaced broken or obsolete pieces with improved versions, unless so mandated by a soft (internal) or hard recall. Technology improvements are not delivered backward compatible. Even the 6WB instrument cluster that is a standard in some cars and some models today in ROW, has been rolled out as an upgrade (two years later, last Nov.), but not a replacement for failing clusters in the US (nearly a plug and play + 15 minutes of coding). No one can get a higher resolution iDrive screen or Connected Drive for their 5 year old BMW, because it is not produced.

To speculate that BMW will offer better batteries as the current ones degrade or fail is just that, speculation. Sure, I expect them try to up-sale more power. My dealer has always done that to every BMW i have had (M Performance Power Kits -performance tuning chips). Can market competition drive makers to do so in the future? Hopefully and certainly possible.

Finally test drove (8 miles) the i3 yesterday. My first electric experience as the drive. Drove freeway, hills, flats....loved the REx it as it is without hope of longer ranger or more power.

Actually untrue for one example with mini and anyone who didn't buy the premium sound system which was a Harmon Kardon BMW came out with a completely new system that was not licensed by Harmon Karmen called the digital sound module and was an 1800 dollar upgrade. So yes they have made upgrades in the past that was better than OEM and was for an older model car and was not an option code to buy from the factory. No recalls or failed system just another option. Though their not an everyday option but it is done

Also note in 2015 BMW is upgrading the readout with SOC display and it's free update even for past i3's. No charge. It's not needed but a welcome update non the less.


Besides all this arguing is pointless as we are just saying what BMW have said in the past and you are arguing against what BMW themselves have said. I find you arguing your point against the point of the manufacture is very funny and odd, if it's BMW's prerogative to make a backwards compatible option for the cars than so be it . They have pointed out the backward compatibility in many press releases so obviously if they didn't want to do it they wouldn't and wouldn't bring it up. And it's very likely the upgraded range system is nearing completion and getting ready for testing as it takes years before bringing into production. So you can keep your opinion as nobody here is going to change your mind.

The last point I want to make is BMW have said the reason for the reverse compatibility being possible is due to storage and manufacturing costs. As technology changes at an accelerated rate it is more expensive for them to keep making older battery tech and store that teck. It's cheaper to make a system that as it progresses they only need to store and produce the latest technology. Latency costs are a real big factor.

Like before I just had regular alkaline batteries to pop into my keyboard that lasted 4 months now I have lithium batteries that last for years.

You see you answered your own question their not doing it to be nice their doing it to save them money in the long run. If I could make a car that didn't need out of date battery teck to keep on the road I don't need to keep old battery teck in my warehouses
and spend money on outdated parts like batteries and these new batteries will simply supersede the old ones hence cheaper for the OEM and better for the customer it's a win win.

[JasH]

Originally Posted by -c-

Also note in 2015 BMW is upgrading the readout with SOC display and it's free update even for past i3's. No charge. .

I've not heard about this. What is it please?

[websterize]

In the U.S., and perhaps in all markets, battery state of charge (like ambient temperature or odometer) will be one of the selections in the instrument display's onboard computer in Spring 2015.

See http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...ould/index.htm