[ChiBimmer]

Originally Posted by JasH

I had a one hour test drive of the Tesla Model S, P85D version recently at the Canary Wharf Motor Expo.

The P85D is the most powerful Tesla, and has an additional motor on the front axle, as well as the rear motor the other Model S cars have. It is therefore 4WD.

The car was left hand drive and appeared fully loaded with options.

Looking at the car, it is attractive and very wide and long. Quality of body and paint work is not premium however, and is below the standard on modern Skodas.

The boot is huge, and in fact big enough to install 2 small rear facing seats in it. The front storage compartment is in fact around the same size as an i3's boot! This car is big.

Legroom is also huge, front and rear. In fact, with the driver's seat fully back, I could only just fully depress the accelerator pedal. However, for a 5 seater big family car, it has a major, and fatal, flaw. Rear headroom is lacking, to the point where my head was hitting the roof - albeit it is better than in the rear of the i8. However, the i8 is a 2+2, not a full 5 (7) seater family car.

The problem is that the Tesla has a badly designed sloping roofline. A terrible idea in a large family car, and truly a case of form over function. Combined with the rear seat being high due to the batteries underneath, it results in inadequate rear headroom.

Sitting in the front, the car is comfortable, spacious and airy. The large tablet style touch screen in the centre looks odd and out of place. Flashy yes, but it makes the car seems gimmicky. The instrument display is fine though.

The interior trim is cheap and flimsy, and not befitting a car in this price range. Nowhere near the quality of even the i3, never mind the i8.

This car had a lot of options, and I liked the height adjustable suspension feature a lot. I wish my i8 had this.

From discussion with Tesla, I would estimate that the real world range of the large battery version of the car, is under 200 miles when driven under similar conditions as my i3 REx test, which gave 79 miles range (i3 BEV estimated range 85 miles). A driver could reasonably extend each of these ranges by 20% if deliberately driving in a frugal manner and in eco mode.

Moving off, the Tesla is smooth, quiet and powerful. It immediately feels very nice indeed to drive. And just as calming and relaxing as the i3 and i8 (in e-drive).

The steering is extremely light, which suits the car. Putting the steering in Sport mode achieves nothing more than making it a little too heavy, as it still offers no true feedback whatsoever - in common with most other modern cars.

The P85D has a well publicised INSANE mode and I left the car in this mode the entire time. This affects the power delivery and basically gives you maximum power (and minimum range).

Moving off is astonishing At the traffic light Grand Prix, if you accelerate fully, it is quicker than any other car I have driven, unless you use launch control in a combustion car with 4WD.

I had so much fun moving off from the lights. Even motorbikes could barely get rolling by the time the Tesla was 3-4 car lengths ahead. It feels more powerful moving from stationary than when accelerating from a rolling start in fact, because of the instant maximum torque afforded by electric motors.

The manner of acceleration from standstill is similar to the i3 and i8, but more pronounced at the point of moving off, because it is all electric (unlike i8), very powerful, and you get 100% of the torque immediately. Simply fantastic! And I could not get enough of trying its acceleration. It also feels very fast because it moves off so silently, unlike the i8 in Sports mode.

Unlike the P85, the P85D did not have enough torque to spin its wheels on a straight dry road whilst moving. No doubt this was due to its 4WD system.

The acceleration is the single biggest selling point of this car, for me.

I should mention though that I had a long drive in my S1 Exige SC CC the next day, and truthfully, the Exige is far more "insane" that the P85D in insane mode.

The big downside of the Tesla though is that it is over 2 tonnes, and it feels heavy too. Furthermore, it can only run at maximum power for 15 seconds before it has to reduce power! This was confirmed by Tesla to me, and is due to massive heat being generated in the batteries when under maximum power. Its glycol cooling system cannot cope with so much heat at once. In real world driving, this is unlikely to be an issue however.

Grip levels are reasonable, and the car is well balanced when turning. However, under very hard acceleration it transfers so much of its massive weight to the rear that steering response is significantly reduced, and it feels less willing to turn. The P85D was better than the P85 in this respect though, and was also assisted by the fact I drove it mostly at minimum ride height.

It corners with little roll, thanks to its low centre of gravity. This is a heavy car though, and needs to be driven as such. It is not a car to throw around twisty roads. However, its massive power and acceleration do make you wish it were more nimble in its handling.

I did manage to cause it to break traction on a tight fast turn, and its behaviour was to slide the rear wheels a little before quickly stabilising through the electronics. It is very easy to drive with an ability to provoke slight oversteer if you try.

Overall, it is an impressive car that is very nice and enjoyable to drive. In P85D guise, it is also extremely quick, to the point where I cannot think of any car that will beat it off the lights up to around 40mph (not counting launch control activated runs in combustion cars). The fatal flaw in the car however is the rear headroom, which is unacceptable in a family 5/7 seater car.

That's a very thoughtful review of the Tesla. It's gets lumped sometimes with the i8 but they're very different. How did the Tesla feel compared to other big performance sedans like an E or S-class AMG, M5/6, Audi RS etc?

[JasH]

Originally Posted by ChiBimmer

That's a very thoughtful review of the Tesla. It's gets lumped sometimes with the i8 but they're very different. How did the Tesla feel compared to other big performance sedans like an E or S-class AMG, M5/6, Audi RS etc?

To be honest, I am not a huge fan of such cars, as I find them all boring, albeit comfortable. The Tesla is much the same, except for its wonderful party trick of the moving off at warp speed from traffic lights. That really is fun

On the other hand the interior styling is awful compared to those German cars. Truly awful.

Build and paint quality on the Tesla Model S is more akin to a bottom of the market cheap car than any of the German cars you listed. But I do find that is generally true of many (most? all?) American cars. Certainly all those I have seen.

The i8 by comparison feels like it is from another planet compared to the Tesla.

(In the interests of balance, let me just add that build and paint quality of my old hand built Lotus is also pretty dire, and worse than the Tesla. But new mass produced Lotus cars are far ahead of Tesla quality.)

[addm]

Tesla model S is not a track car. It is a full size sedan which has amazing acceleration because of its electric motors.
I bet Tesla can produce a electric car which is more track focused. Easy changes can include better cooling of batteries, decreasing wt and size, more gears instead of single gear to help with top speed. Producing a track car is definitely not their priority.
But it does not changes the fact that a full size electric sedan in its first generation can give serious drubbing to its more track focused race cars even if only in straight line.

[MalibuBimmer]

Sling shots also have very good straight line performance. But I wouldn't want to drive one.

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by addm

Tesla model S is not a track car. It is a full size sedan which has amazing acceleration because of its electric motors.
I bet Tesla can produce a electric car which is more track focused. Easy changes can include better cooling of batteries, decreasing wt and size, more gears instead of single gear to help with top speed. Producing a track car is definitely not their priority.
But it does not changes the fact that a full size electric sedan in its first generation can give serious drubbing to its more track focused race cars even if only in straight line.

I don't know if they could. The tesla roadster has VERY aggressive cooling but is only good for maybe 15 minutes when pushed. And you can only do so much with the weights of the battery.

[raysspl]

Nice comparison

[3s-a-charm]

Originally Posted by addm

Tesla model S is not a track car. It is a full size sedan which has amazing acceleration because of its electric motors.
I bet Tesla can produce a electric car which is more track focused. Easy changes can include better cooling of batteries, decreasing wt and size, more gears instead of single gear to help with top speed. Producing a track car is definitely not their priority.
But it does not changes the fact that a full size electric sedan in its first generation can give serious drubbing to its more track focused race cars even if only in straight line.

That's a key point - this is a FIRST GENERATION attempt by a new car company who's only other car was a repurposed Lotus. All things considered the Tesla is an insane car and I am thoroughly enjoying every minute in mine.

I had intended on buying a 6-GC which has in my opinion the nicest interior in the business - the Tesla certainly isn't oozing luxury like a 6, S-Class or A8 - but I have learned to appreciate the minimalist modern dash and the other parts of the experience are so great they outweigh the few downfalls of the car.

The Tesla certainly deserves more respect than a few here are giving it.

[3s-a-charm]

Originally Posted by Epirali

I don't know if they could. The tesla roadster has VERY aggressive cooling but is only good for maybe 15 minutes when pushed. And you can only do so much with the weights of the battery.

Yes I think it is very difficult to make an electric track car - what about the formula e cars? Can those be modeled for a road car?

[addm]

Originally Posted by 3s-a-charm

Yes I think it is very difficult to make an electric track car - what about the formula e cars? Can those be modeled for a road car?

I am biased toward tesla. Not because of Tesla itself but I like the concept of electric motor for propulsion. I mean if you compare an electric motor to a IC engine, an electric motor is so simple, efficient and trouble free. I know it is the battery technology which is the bottleneck, but Tesla has shown that it is not that difficult to produce a reasonable range with present technology.
If a Model S can have 400 miles practical range, you can wonder how many people will have range anxiety.
And 400 miles range is entirely possible even with incremental progress. It is a matter of time.
If electric cars becomes mainstream, we will definitely miss the amazing soundtrack of race cars of today. Maybe not in our lifetime.

[MalibuBimmer]

Part of range anxiety is recharging impatience.

One day electric cars will have extended range and either be charged by induction on the go, or charged very quickly. That day is not here. As a result, the Tesla is a transitional vehicle. The i8 is also a transitional vehicle. In exchange for a small ICE, the i8 eliminates both range anxiety and recharging impatience. And it's put together with fit and finish much better than the Tesla and doesn't handle like the QE2.

[Mightymousemighty]

Bang on.

Once battery tech moves on all hybrids and EVs will mature. In the UK, the charging infrastructure isn't there yet to remove range anxiety certainly on my long distance drives.

My problem is this. An eV makes perfect sense for short journeys but can you justify £90k on a car only doing a relatively small number of miles that can be charged up at home.

Nothing that hasn't been said before.

Great machine Tesla but they are clearly too focused on 0-60 times! I will be paying close attention to Apples efforts, I would expect them to force manufacturers to up their game.

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by 3s-a-charm

Yes I think it is very difficult to make an electric track car - what about the formula e cars? Can those be modeled for a road car?

Part of what I like the i8 is that it is one of the "third way" cars. It has just enough battery and motor to give the initial boost, then the smaller ICE comes on to provide power when emotor fades. And because it doesn't need a giant battery the overall weight of the car is very well managed.

I appreciate what Tesla is trying to do (hey I own one!), but I don't respect that for that price they are paying no attention to the fit/finish/feel of the interior. Specially for what they want to charge. I have tried over and over to get myself to buy one, but I just can't do it. I even had a reservation on a Model X to replace two cars (AWD and an electric) but just ended up canceling after I saw the pictures of the Model X at shows and saw the interior.

I mean can you imagine a Lambo or Ferrari having the look/feel of a Honda? (yes I am exaggerating just a little bit here to make a point).

[JasH]

Originally Posted by Epirali

I mean can you imagine a Lambo or Ferrari having the look/feel of a Honda? (yes I am exaggerating just a little bit here to make a point).

I really think you are being being very unfair comparing the build, fit and finish of the Tesla P85 with Hondas.

























....Hondas are much better built than the P85.

[Epirali]

You really had me there for a second!

[MalibuBimmer]

Originally Posted by Epirali

Part of what I like the i8 is that it is one of the "third way" cars. It has just enough battery and motor to give the initial boost, then the smaller ICE comes on to provide power when emotor fades. And because it doesn't need a giant battery the overall weight of the car is very well managed.

I appreciate what Tesla is trying to do (hey I own one!), but I don't respect that for that price they are paying no attention to the fit/finish/feel of the interior. Specially for what they want to charge. I have tried over and over to get myself to buy one, but I just can't do it. I even had a reservation on a Model X to replace two cars (AWD and an electric) but just ended up canceling after I saw the pictures of the Model X at shows and saw the interior.

I mean can you imagine a Lambo or Ferrari having the look/feel of a Honda? (yes I am exaggerating just a little bit here to make a point).

Epi - if you own a Tesla why do you write "I have tried over and over to get myself to buy one, but I just can't do it." Did you get your Tesla as a gift?

[3s-a-charm]

Originally Posted by Epirali

Part of what I like the i8 is that it is one of the "third way" cars. It has just enough battery and motor to give the initial boost, then the smaller ICE comes on to provide power when emotor fades. And because it doesn't need a giant battery the overall weight of the car is very well managed.

I appreciate what Tesla is trying to do (hey I own one!), but I don't respect that for that price they are paying no attention to the fit/finish/feel of the interior. Specially for what they want to charge. I have tried over and over to get myself to buy one, but I just can't do it. I even had a reservation on a Model X to replace two cars (AWD and an electric) but just ended up canceling after I saw the pictures of the Model X at shows and saw the interior.

I mean can you imagine a Lambo or Ferrari having the look/feel of a Honda? (yes I am exaggerating just a little bit here to make a point).

I certainly appreciate your comments. The Model X looks hideous and will perform (straight-line) like nothing else - which is a pity.

Having owned and driven a lot of vehicles my January-build P85D is quite excellent for fit/finish and the materials are a solid 8-9/10. The BMW/Audi interiors are much better but the joy I get out of driving/owning the Tesla surprised me. I will one day add a small, light-weight car as I miss that element (M2?) but for my use the P85D is awesome - I would have paid even more than the $150k it cost me - and that is saying a lot.

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

Epi - if you own a Tesla why do you write "I have tried over and over to get myself to buy one, but I just can't do it." Did you get your Tesla as a gift?

Sorry I am being confusing. I own a Tesla Roadster, which I love. I was talking about Model S and Model X.

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by 3s-a-charm

I certainly appreciate your comments. The Model X looks hideous and will perform (straight-line) like nothing else - which is a pity.

Having owned and driven a lot of vehicles my January-build P85D is quite excellent for fit/finish and the materials are a solid 8-9/10. The BMW/Audi interiors are much better but the joy I get out of driving/owning the Tesla surprised me. I will one day add a small, light-weight car as I miss that element (M2?) but for my use the P85D is awesome - I would have paid even more than the $150k it cost me - and that is saying a lot.

Hope you didn't take my comments negatively. It is just my opinion, obviously a lot of people like the car a lot.

I find a Nissan Leaf is good bang for the little bucks, i8 I would pay even more, and the i3 and Tesla S to be not worth the dollars, but just for me.

[3s-a-charm]

Originally Posted by Epirali

Hope you didn't take my comments negatively. It is just my opinion, obviously a lot of people like the car a lot.

I find a Nissan Leaf is good bang for the little bucks, i8 I would pay even more, and the i3 and Tesla S to be not worth the dollars, but just for me.

No offense taken.

[Aye-eight]

Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky

Pretty surprised to see the i8 does decent against the p85D

Now, let's do this 0-250. Seeing how the Tesla loses steam in the upper 100s, I wonder if it would ever get there ... ;-)

[rap427]

May be a dumb question but how are you adding your cars to your post.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by rap427

May be a dumb question but how are you adding your cars to your post.

I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, but I think you're referring to "signatures". You can edit yours here: http://bmwi.bimmerpost.com/forums/pr...=editsignature