[M5Rick]

Pic of the day

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by minn19

I hope the changes next year actually allow a car to follow close behind without overheating everything and destabilizing it so bad it makes racing nearly impossible.
They were trying to hype the coming fight late in the race between HAM and PER but almost everyone knew he would catch him but wouldn’t be able to pass because of it. Even with three DRS zones, no bueno.

That cars can't follow behind other cars is imho a design choice, both aerowise and powerwise. I think they can easily design a car that is not hampered by that so much, but that car won't be as fast in free air.

That PER couldn't pass HAM is imho not because of that, but it's because he had no time. PER only came into striking distance in the last lap or so. Yes at the end of the race he was faster but for PER passing HAM he should have been there 2 or 3 laps earlier so he had time to prepare and plan his attack at the ideal spot.

Also passing shouldn't be made too easy, otherwise we wouldn't have had that fight between RIC and BOT. RIC held off BOT pure on experience.
And passing is a talent. If anyone can do that, then it won't be something that can give better drivers the edge.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

That cars can't follow behind other cars is imho a design choice, both aerowise and powerwise. I think they can easily design a car that is not hampered by that so much, but that car won't be as fast in free air.

That PER couldn't pass HAM is imho not because of that, but it's because he had no time. PER only came into striking distance in the last lap or so. Yes at the end of the race he was faster but for PER passing HAM he should have been there 2 or 3 laps earlier so he had time to prepare and plan his attack at the ideal spot.

Also passing shouldn't be made too easy, otherwise we wouldn't have had that fight between RIC and BOT. RIC held off BOT pure on experience.
And passing is a talent. If anyone can do that, then it won't be something that can give better drivers the edge.

Not shocking we don't agree here either. Of course it's the design, it prevents passing in a lot of situation by even the top drivers without DRS help.

Too easy? It's near impossible without DRS, a massive pace advantage or a mistake by a driver. It's the other way and far too hard to pass. Part of it is the tracks as well.

Which, is why I posted I hope the changes make for more passing/interesting racing next year.

[EnVe46]

Having only recently got into F1 in last 4-5 years, its kind of like any sport in my opinion. They change something with hoping to improve but hurt something else. The spending cap, which I understand, has allowed Red Bull to be more competitive this year which makes races a lot more fun to watch. But now its swinging to Red Bull dominating. While I find myself rooting for HAM, it is fun watching VER challenge and beating him. I am wondering however how much of it is money spent on development throughout the year versus pure skill.

[GuidoK]

So on what basis should passing be possible if not because of DRS, not because of pace difference and not because of mistake by the other driver?

It even used to be way more difficult to pass in F1

The only thing I can imagine (and which is already partly in place) is a spending cap, to give 'lesser teams' the same chance to develop a competative car (although from a historical standpoint F1 should be about the highest level of technology imho), and that engines should either be sold by an independant broker. That last measurement takes care of that teams can't influence other teams. So a manufacturer either doesn't sell their engines, or they sell their engines but for a fixed price (I think that that may already become a rule) and have no say to whom they sell their engines.

Although the budget cap might result in the future in a very undesired direction, like it has happened with virtually all industries that need to compete on price....

But regarding sunday's race, nothing significant would have changed the outcome of the race if passing was no big deal.
Max passed HAM and BOT on talent. He managed to get a little slipstream from BOT, placed his car next to BOT on the racing line and managed to break really late. All on talent, no DRS needed.
The only thing we would have missed this race was the excellent fight between BOT and RIC for 10th place or so, were BOT would have passed RIC right away, but the top 5 was never really within striking distance so that would have stayed the same imho.
So all in all we would have had a more boring race in Mexico if passing was easy....

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

'MAX 'MAXimized in 'MAXico !!!

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

So on what basis should passing be possible if not because of DRS, not because of pace difference and not because of mistake by the other driver?

It even used to be way more difficult to pass in F1

The only thing I can imagine (and which is already partly in place) is a spending cap, to give 'lesser teams' the same chance to develop a competative car (although from a historical standpoint F1 should be about the highest level of technology imho), and that engines should either be sold by an independant broker. That last measurement takes care of that teams can't influence other teams. So a manufacturer either doesn't sell their engines, or they sell their engines but for a fixed price (I think that that may already become a rule) and have no say to whom they sell their engines.

Although the budget cap might result in the future in a very undesired direction, like it has happened with virtually all industries that need to compete on price....

But regarding sunday's race, nothing significant would have changed the outcome of the race if passing was no big deal.
Max passed HAM and BOT on talent. He managed to get a little slipstream from BOT, placed his car next to BOT on the racing line and managed to break really late. All on talent, no DRS needed.
The only thing we would have missed this race was the excellent fight between BOT and RIC for 10th place or so, were BOT would have passed RIC right away, but the top 5 was never really within striking distance so that would have stayed the same imho.
So all in all we would have had a more boring race in Mexico if passing was easy....

Not saying it wasn’t a brilliant move (it was) but that is a very different scenario from a stand still to the first corner. Even he has had a hard time this year (and the past) following cars and not able to pass at times due to the turbulence from the car in front and the ensuing issues.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Pic of the day

HAM was faster in the first straight ...
But the braking feeling in MAX's 'Left foot is like magic !!!

[///M Power-Belgium]

*****

[///M Power-Belgium]

[Blindside_137]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

[NickyC]

Fell asleep twice during the race, it was really surprising to me that with three DRS zones nobody could pass anybody. Especially the long straight down to turn 1, you'd think that would be prime DRS passing time but it just didn't happen.

Nice job by Max of course, but this thing is far from over. I still think that RB car is going to fail at some point in the next four races and this thing will go down to the wire.

[Bongoxxx]

Originally Posted by EnVe46

Having only recently got into F1 in last 4-5 years, its kind of like any sport in my opinion. They change something with hoping to improve but hurt something else. The spending cap, which I understand, has allowed Red Bull to be more competitive this year which makes races a lot more fun to watch. But now its swinging to Red Bull dominating. While I find myself rooting for HAM, it is fun watching VER challenge and beating him. I am wondering however how much of it is money spent on development throughout the year versus pure skill.

The spending cap has had really no impact on RB becoming more competitive. RB has always been spending similar to what MERC has been spending.

The rule changes to the aero of the cars is what has allowed RB to be more competitive. The changes were directly made to slow down MERC and have had a much more dramatic impact to the low rake vs. high rake designs.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

Cheers Val!

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

*****

Yeah nerves of steel and a magic left foot brake like no other on the limit but on the racing line with Max grip to take the bend fast and power out of it leaving Hammy

[Killed by Death]

Max Verstappen slowing down to hold up Botta$$ in his fastest lap attempt

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

Cheers !

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Yeah nerves of steel and a magic left foot brake like no other on the limit but on the racing line with Max grip to take the bend fast and power out of it leaving Hammy

You guys literally give max too much credit (yes he's an insanely talented driver but you guys just blow everything out of proportion)..... Sure it takes nerves to brake super late especially on the first lap with alot of unknowns, but that's not the only factor. Like I said you guys cannot see anything objectively.

On the first corner of the race it is mostly dependent on the car and how well it manages brake temperatures (which cool after sitting on the grid waiting for the end of the formation lap) leading up to the first turn. Then you have to factor in the down force levels generated by each car which results in more traction, the more grip you have the later you can brake because you can carry more cornerning speeds and we know the RB has way faster cornerning speeds than the merc this year due to the floor regulation. Plus max was 3rd so he had that little bit less waiting time on the grid which means less time for the brakes to cool down and for the tires to cool down, and when everything is insanely close every bit of temperature counts - so again Max had more of an advantage here too.

So in essence if you have a really damn good car that gives you the confidence you need to brake late into the first turn of the race, that is the difference maker. So honestly you guys are giving max way too much credit for this.... If it was later in the race when everything is up to temp then more credit can be given to the driver, but on the first corner it is pretty much a massive gamble and all up to the car (mainly up to the car, you just have to have the guts to gamble - all this left foot feel is nonsense specifically on that first lap because it is all dependent on how long the grid takes to form and that influences how much the brakes cool).

[EnVe46]

Originally Posted by Bongoxxx

The spending cap has had really no impact on RB becoming more competitive. RB has always been spending similar to what MERC has been spending.

The rule changes to the aero of the cars is what has allowed RB to be more competitive. The changes were directly made to slow down MERC and have had a much more dramatic impact to the low rake vs. high rake designs.

I must have misunderstood because a lot of what I read, RB has been able to spend more on the current car than Mercedes has been. Guess that's an excuse HAM was using for getting waxed

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by F87source

You guys literally give max too much credit (yes he's an insanely talented driver but you guys just blow everything out of proportion)..... Sure it takes nerves to brake super late especially on the first lap with alot of unknowns, but that's not the only factor. Like I said you guys cannot see anything objectively.

On the first corner of the race it is mostly dependent on the car and how well it manages brake temperatures (which cool after sitting on the grid waiting for the end of the formation lap) leading up to the first turn. Then you have to factor in the down force levels generated by each car which results in more traction, the more grip you have the later you can brake because you can carry more cornerning speeds and we know the RB has way faster cornerning speeds than the merc this year due to the floor regulation. Plus max was 3rd so he had that little bit less waiting time on the grid which means less time for the brakes to cool down and for the tires to cool down, and when everything is insanely close every bit of temperature counts - so again Max had more of an advantage here too.

So in essence if you have a really damn good car that gives you the confidence you need to brake late into the first turn of the race, that is the difference maker. So honestly you guys are giving max way too much credit for this.... If it was later in the race when everything is up to temp then more credit can be given to the driver, but on the first corner it is pretty much a massive gamble and all up to the car (mainly up to the car, you just have to have the guts to gamble - all this left foot feel is nonsense specifically on that first lap because it is all dependent on how long the grid takes to form and that influences how much the brakes cool).

Mate , what's your objective view of the Mercedes dominance in the last 7 years ?

BTW : Your forgot 5 things in your statement :

• Driver Skills
• Racecraft
• Born on the track
• B@lls
• The 2021 F1 World Champion

[fiveohwblow]

The single reason I don’t want max to be a WDC has absolutely zero to do with Max…

[F87source]

Originally Posted by fiveohwblow

The single reason I don’t want max to be a WDC has absolutely zero to do with Max…

I think I know what you're implying.



Me personally I don't care lol, if he's a champ then good stuff if not then good stuff to the other champ.

I just want more close races and I want to see the 2022 cars. Hope they bring alot of cool little innovations.