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      02-04-2021, 06:14 AM   #1
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Do I really need a Level 2 charging station?

My wife drives about 5,000 miles per year. I would really like to hear all sides of your opinions. Will a levrr we l 1 charger be sufficient?
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      02-04-2021, 07:33 AM   #2
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Per year is not important, per day is the better deciding factor. My wife drives 50 miles a day with our 120ah i3 and easily could get by with nightly Level 1 charging. But with Level 2 installed we plug it in every 2-3 days and know it will be topped off in ~3-4 hours.
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      02-04-2021, 08:26 AM   #3
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I was commuting 22 miles/day pre-COVID, and used the i3's included Level 1 cord overnight on every second night with the tiny 60ah battery. We have a Level 2 charger as well, which my wife used every other evening pre-COVID to charge her Kia Niro EV when she was commuting 100 miles/day. The daily mileage on the Kia was close to the limits of what a Level 1 charger could put back in overnight, so getting a Level 2 charger was a no-brainer for us with two EV's in the driveway.....
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      02-05-2021, 02:43 AM   #4
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The decision to install a real charger was not due to charging times for me but electric safety. Normal outlets were never designed for the load charging puts on them
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      02-11-2021, 11:19 AM   #5
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IGNORE THESE NUMBERS AND SEE CORRECTED POST BELOW

A Level 1 on a common 15A circuit can draw 12A. That's about 1.32 kW. Figure at about 3.33 kWh/mile and you will need about 2.5 hours of charging for each mile of travel. Looks like you could travel only 4 miles every day (1460/yr) if you charged for 10 hours every night. You could travel 13.6 miles every other day (2482/yr) if you charged a full day plus 10 hours between trips. You could travel 23.2 every third day (2822/yr) if you charged for two full days plus 10 hours between trips. It is NOT looking good for traveling 5000 miles a year on a basic Level 1 charger and 15A (12A usable) circuit.

Last edited by JohnWasser; 02-13-2021 at 07:21 AM.. Reason: Incorrect Numbers
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      02-11-2021, 06:06 PM   #6
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Your math seems *way* off from my real-world observations.....
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      02-12-2021, 04:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vreihen16 View Post
Your math seems *way* off from my real-world observations.....
OK. What are your observations?
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      02-12-2021, 05:27 PM   #8
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4-5 miles of range per hour of charging on the factory Level 1 USA cord, and about 25 miles of range per hour of charging on a full Level 2.

I have come home from work many an evening with a low 60Ah battery, charged it overnight with the factory Level 1 cord, and left home the next morning with a full charge.....
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      02-13-2021, 07:18 AM   #9
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It looks like my consumption number was way off. I think I got kWh/100km (about 12.9) mixed up with kWh/mi (about 0.208). You are right that the charge rate should be more like 4.2 mi per hour (880W). Thanks for the correction.

Let me try with the corrected value:
A Level 1 on a common 110V 15A circuit has an effective charge rate of about 880W. Figure at about 208 Wh/mile and you will get about 4.2 miles of travel for each hour of charging. Looks like you could travel 42-59 miles every day (15,000-21,000/yr) if you charge for 10-14 hours every night. An 80% charge will take about 17 hours.

Looks like I was wrong and the included Level 1 charge chord would be fine for someone typically doing under 50 miles a day.
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      02-16-2021, 07:56 PM   #10
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We survived 6 months on the L1 charging. The logic you used of 10 hours charging a night is good in theory, but did not work out for us in practice. There would be those nights where you did not plug in the car or we had to go on any errands in the day vs just driving to work and home, we would need to charge during the day. The i3 became more usable once we got the L2 charging.
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      02-19-2021, 10:16 AM   #11
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I lived with level 1 charger for 2 years but I had access to level 1&2 at work
I bought a inexpensive level 2 for home about 2 years ago and life is definitely better. 400$ for the charger then install simple dryer type outlet. Easy to do.
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      02-26-2021, 10:03 PM   #12
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Levels 2s also need less power to charge your car. For the entire duration of the charge, the car runs the battery's thermal management system to keep it at an optimal temperature. The longer you charge, the more power is needed to maintain that temp. So, a faster charge (level 2) uses less power to charge the battery the same amount.
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      03-02-2021, 01:02 PM   #13
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I have a level 2 charger, and as many say, if you don't deplete your battery during the day, a nightly level 1 charge will probably top you up just fine.

The advantage of the level 2 is that if you forgot to charge, get home with a low charge and need to go for a drive later in the evening, a level 2 will get you quite a range boost in just an hour or so while you eat dinner or something.
Not to sure what it is like for you, but for me it's a lot cheaper to charge at home than at the superchargers.

I have personally never used a fast charger or a level 1 charger on mine, I just use my level 2 and set both car and charger to change between midnight and 7 AM.
I can typically get 4-5 days out of a fully charged battery.

Obioban:
You still have that Imola E46 M3?
Been a while since my M3 days, sold my CB 7 years ago, do miss it some times
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      03-05-2021, 08:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noggie View Post
I have a level 2 charger, and as many say, if you don't deplete your battery during the day, a nightly level 1 charge will probably top you up just fine.

The advantage of the level 2 is that if you forgot to charge, get home with a low charge and need to go for a drive later in the evening, a level 2 will get you quite a range boost in just an hour or so while you eat dinner or something.
Not to sure what it is like for you, but for me it's a lot cheaper to charge at home than at the superchargers.

I have personally never used a fast charger or a level 1 charger on mine, I just use my level 2 and set both car and charger to change between midnight and 7 AM.
I can typically get 4-5 days out of a fully charged battery.

Obioban:
You still have that Imola E46 M3?
Been a while since my M3 days, sold my CB 7 years ago, do miss it some times
Ha, yep, best car ever! Plus an M3 converted wagon. I do all my projects on it in the winter now, so the coupe is in full project move--wavetrac diff, monoball control arms, solid subframe mounts, vincebar, Slonik chassis stiffener plate, new suspension etc going in. If I have enough time when that's done, I have a leather dash for it ready to go in
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      03-05-2021, 10:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Ha, yep, best car ever! Plus an M3 converted wagon. I do all my projects on it in the winter now, so the coupe is in full project move--wavetrac diff, monoball control arms, solid subframe mounts, vincebar, Slonik chassis stiffener plate, new suspension etc going in. If I have enough time when that's done, I have a leather dash for it ready to go in
Nice, I sometimes miss my M3, that color is the best ever BMW color, I hated my Carbon Black in the end.

Sold mine and got a M550d that I had for 5 year before getting an Imola red M5 2 years ago.
I still have my old 850i and I'm doing some work to that.
Funny enough I'm moving towards comfort and not performance anymore, must be an age thing
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      03-05-2021, 04:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Nice, I sometimes miss my M3, that color is the best ever BMW color, I hated my Carbon Black in the end.

Sold mine and got a M550d that I had for 5 year before getting an Imola red M5 2 years ago.
I still have my old 850i and I'm doing some work to that.
Funny enough I'm moving towards comfort and not performance anymore, must be an age thing
We also have an e39 M5. It’s my old man mobile
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      07-12-2021, 11:01 PM   #17
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Maybe someone can point me in right direction. We are getting close to buying a i3 and have talked with Avista Power about installing us a 240v tower in the driveway, and wondered is it worth the expense? Thanks for help
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      07-13-2021, 03:07 AM   #18
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Maybe someone can point me in right direction. We are getting close to buying a i3 and have talked with Avista Power about installing us a 240v tower in the driveway, and wondered is it worth the expense? Thanks for help
You can usually get a federal tax credit for installing an EVSE. Some states have credits too. My power company offered me $600 in rebates (though it was a few years ago). Overall my original EVSE was basically free to me. I think total it cost around $1000 with the electrician and ChargePoint home, but in my case its only a few feet from the electrical panel.

Yeah, its worth it long term. Electric isn't going anywhere.
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      07-14-2021, 05:20 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garys3 View Post
Maybe someone can point me in right direction. We are getting close to buying a i3 and have talked with Avista Power about installing us a 240v tower in the driveway, and wondered is it worth the expense? Thanks for help
You can usually get a federal tax credit for installing an EVSE. Some states have credits too. My power company offered me $600 in rebates (though it was a few years ago). Overall my original EVSE was basically free to me. I think total it cost around $1000 with the electrician and ChargePoint home, but in my case its only a few feet from the electrical panel.

Yeah, its worth it long term. Electric isn't going anywhere.


Did you say your power company helped out with the credit for charger installation?
I never thought to see if my cheap ass power company would do that. I just automatically assumed .. no. Off to researching. Thanks !
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      07-14-2021, 07:03 AM   #20
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Maybe someone can point me in right direction. We are getting close to buying a i3 and have talked with Avista Power about installing us a 240v tower in the driveway, and wondered is it worth the expense? Thanks for help
I wouldn’t go without LV2 charger. As for whether it’s worth it, it comes down to cost.

Electricians here wanted 3k for it…and forget that. Drill the garage wall, split the dryer 240 and run wire on the ceiling to a cheapo Siemens unit next to the garage door. Came down to $500 for the unit.
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      07-14-2021, 07:57 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by MsGoGoMoto View Post


Did you say your power company helped out with the credit for charger installation?
I never thought to see if my cheap ass power company would do that. I just automatically assumed .. no. Off to researching. Thanks !
Ours does, but it is mostly funded by blue-state grants and requires a permanent change to net metering...which will happen over my cold, dead, twitching body.

Since I already had a 220V/50A welder outlet just inside our detached garage's door, I bought an OpenEVSE kit and have it plugged into the welder outlet as our Level 2 charger.....
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      07-21-2021, 09:52 PM   #22
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Did you say your power company helped out with the credit for charger installation?
Yep, our local utility had a $600 incentive ($200 check + $400 in rebates) to install a Level 2 "Wi-Fi enabled" charger. Requirements were it had to be new, installed by a licensed professional, and with a city permit.

Just checked again and they're still offering it. Looks like they're now offering another $250 in additional rebates if you buy a new EV locally as well.

Research, you might find money out there. I had to apply for the program before I got my permit or started work.
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