BMW i
Forum for the BMW i3, i4 and i8
BMW i3 BMW i8
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

  BMW i Forums > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-20-2019, 12:00 PM   #1
Schwarzschild Radius
Field Marshal of the Cosmos
Schwarzschild Radius's Avatar
United_States
7107
Rep
8,892
Posts

Drives: 135i DCT
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Agua Caliente

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 135  [5.00]
A union-related legal question

It has to do with American Airlines and their machinist union. As my father is forced to switch planes and/or terminals for the 5th time in 2 days as he tries to go on a golf vacation to Hilton head, I'm wondering if said machinist union might be liable to a class action lawsuit if they are ruled against in the following lawsuit:

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/n...s-lawsuit.html

The union is obviously conspiring to delay and/or have the flight canceled. My dad, aged 75, deserves this vacation, but not this treatment from this stupid union.
Are there any torte attorneys on here that have anything to support a suit against the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers?
__________________
I need some warm warming up stuff -LUPS

Last edited by Schwarzschild Radius; 08-20-2019 at 12:13 PM..
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2019, 12:24 PM   #2
TheWatchGuy
Major
TheWatchGuy's Avatar
1803
Rep
1,373
Posts

Drives: 335xi
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: CO

iTrader: (0)

probably not.

but call them up and bitch and complain until they give you some free shit
__________________
@drunkcowatches on ig

Am I a watch guy, or do i watch guys?
Appreciate 1
      08-20-2019, 12:42 PM   #3
ScottSinger
Brigadier General
1475
Rep
4,202
Posts

Drives: M235i 6spd
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (0)

Had no idea this was happening. Fascinating. Out sourcing maintenance to El Salvador and S Korea.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...-possible/amp/
Appreciate 1
      08-20-2019, 12:43 PM   #4
Schwarzschild Radius
Field Marshal of the Cosmos
Schwarzschild Radius's Avatar
United_States
7107
Rep
8,892
Posts

Drives: 135i DCT
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Agua Caliente

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 135  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
probably not.

but call them up and bitch and complain until they give you some free shit
I called the mechanics union to complain.
__________________
I need some warm warming up stuff -LUPS
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2019, 01:48 PM   #5
Maestro
Major
535
Rep
1,179
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i Sedan
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (0)

By definition of a Union means you are bound to arbitration to resolve any issues, it is very hard to sue a Union or the company the union supports. Work slow downs are standard Union negotiation tactics to get concession from a company. Obviously this time it backfire on the Union.

My dad was Teamster for 40 yrs and I attend many a union meeting especially during contract negotiations and Union would tell the Rank and File to do things to harm the company's or government's operations to force a quick negotiation. I for one with an outsiders view the people running the union do not care if the workers suffer, they are not the ones who pay the price at the job.

Last edited by Maestro; 08-20-2019 at 02:03 PM..
Appreciate 1
      08-20-2019, 02:06 PM   #6
TheRos4
New Member
0
Rep
6
Posts

Drives: E90
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: bali

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
By definition of a Union means you are bound to arbitration to resolve any issues, it is very hard to sue a Union or the company the union supports. Work slow downs are standard Union negotiation tactics to get concession from a company. Obviously this time it backfire on the Union.

My dad was Teamster for 40 yrs and I attend many a union meeting especially during contract negotiations and Union would tell the Rank and File to do things to harm the company's or government's operations to force a quick negotiation. I for one with an outsiders view the people running the union do not care if the workers suffer, they are not the ones who pay the price at the job.
+1
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2019, 02:22 PM   #7
TheWatchGuy
Major
TheWatchGuy's Avatar
1803
Rep
1,373
Posts

Drives: 335xi
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: CO

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzschild Radius View Post
I called the mechanics union to complain.
they dgaf about you

but American Airlines can give you free stuff. The union cant give you shit
__________________
@drunkcowatches on ig

Am I a watch guy, or do i watch guys?
Appreciate 0
      08-22-2019, 07:53 AM   #8
stevenc
Coming Soon
United_States
112
Rep
943
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW M4 Alphine White MT
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (0)

I fly for a cruise on Saturday and Norwegian booked me on AA with a connection. Im shitting balls that im going to be delayed and miss the cruise. Of course Norwegian wont care that i my flight got delayed or cancelled!
Appreciate 0
      08-22-2019, 10:42 AM   #9
Maynard
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
1030
Rep
1,649
Posts

Drives: 2016 228iX
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Upstate NY

iTrader: (0)

Is it just me, or is the idea of farming out airplane maintenance to the lowest overseas bidder a scarier prospect than a delayed flight? I hope that if you call the airline to gripe, that the first thing you complain about is outsourcing maintenance. God knows what undercutting they would come up with if it weren't for unions and government regulations - I know they can be a PITA in some ways, but there is something to be said for high standards in some areas, as well as paying Americans a good wage to look after us.
Appreciate 1
      08-22-2019, 10:45 AM   #10
Schwarzschild Radius
Field Marshal of the Cosmos
Schwarzschild Radius's Avatar
United_States
7107
Rep
8,892
Posts

Drives: 135i DCT
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Agua Caliente

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 135  [5.00]
My dad finally made it....after the third plane on the 2nd day wasn't called back. The first lady at the union I talked to, I asked her if she would want that to happen to her 75 year old dad. The DC union guy who finally called me denied the whole thing. I called him a liar.
__________________
I need some warm warming up stuff -LUPS
Appreciate 0
      08-22-2019, 10:48 AM   #11
Schwarzschild Radius
Field Marshal of the Cosmos
Schwarzschild Radius's Avatar
United_States
7107
Rep
8,892
Posts

Drives: 135i DCT
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Agua Caliente

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 135  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maynard View Post
Is it just me, or is the idea of farming out airplane maintenance to the lowest overseas bidder a scarier prospect than a delayed flight? I hope that if you call the airline to gripe, that the first thing you complain about is outsourcing maintenance. God knows what undercutting they would come up with if it weren't for unions and government regulations - I know they can be a PITA in some ways, but there is something to be said for high standards in some areas, as well as paying Americans a good wage to look after us.
I told the DC union rep that I fully supported them on the outsourcing thing. He lied again and said they were not doing the maintenence thing on purpose. I also told him they needed to grow some balls and strike. The maintainence thing is such bs. Especially 5 times, and 3 terminals.
__________________
I need some warm warming up stuff -LUPS
Appreciate 0
      08-22-2019, 10:51 AM   #12
Run Silent
Run Deep
Run Silent's Avatar
United_States
10427
Rep
2,934
Posts

Drives: Back and Forth To Work
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: The Mountains

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maynard View Post
.....if it weren't for unions and government regulations - something to be said for high standards....



Laughing at "unions" and "high standards".

__________________
Nou gaan ons braai!
Appreciate 3
UncleWede7374.00
MKSixer13466.50

      08-22-2019, 08:01 PM   #13
vreihen16
Private First Class
United_States
313
Rep
146
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW i3 BEV
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Orange County, NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenc View Post
I fly for a cruise on Saturday and Norwegian booked me on AA with a connection. Im shitting balls that im going to be delayed and miss the cruise. Of course Norwegian wont care that i my flight got delayed or cancelled!
Did you buy travel insurance?

Norwegian will hold the ship if any ship-provided shore excursion has not returned at departure time, and it might be worth checking to see if they have a similar policy for inbound flights that they booked for you. Worst case, they should pick up the tab to fly you to the first cruise stop, and you get a private SOLAS drill upon boarding.

One of my strongest suggestion to cruisers is to always spring for the passport book, even though the cheaper passport card works fine on ships and for land crossings in many common cruise destinations. Last thing that you want to do is get stuck in a foreign country waiting for the local embassy to get you a passport book so that you can fly home/onwards to the next port.

Going any place interesting?????
__________________
2015 BMW i3 BEV, Giga World (Lodge interior), Tech/Driving Assist Packages, 16K miles
Appreciate 1
      Yesterday, 10:19 AM   #14
Maestro
Major
535
Rep
1,179
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i Sedan
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vreihen16 View Post
Did you buy travel insurance?

Norwegian will hold the ship if any ship-provided shore excursion has not returned at departure time, and it might be worth checking to see if they have a similar policy for inbound flights that they booked for you. Worst case, they should pick up the tab to fly you to the first cruise stop, and you get a private SOLAS drill upon boarding.

One of my strongest suggestion to cruisers is to always spring for the passport book, even though the cheaper passport card works fine on ships and for land crossings in many common cruise destinations. Last thing that you want to do is get stuck in a foreign country waiting for the local embassy to get you a passport book so that you can fly home/onwards to the next port.

Going any place interesting?????
I believe there is some stupid law which dates back to before WWII which forces you to board the ship in the US (if not a US flagged ship), if you miss the departure you can not board the ship outside the US then return to the US. Once the ship leaves the US it can not go to another US port without going to a non-US port especially if it not a US flagged ship. There is some pretty complicated rules which governing shipping and cruise ships are covered by default. If you miss the boarding you are pretty much screwed depending on where the ship is going.

Last edited by Maestro; Yesterday at 12:36 PM..
Appreciate 0
      Yesterday, 06:55 PM   #15
vreihen16
Private First Class
United_States
313
Rep
146
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW i3 BEV
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Orange County, NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
If you are referring to the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA), cruise lines are supposedly pretty experienced at dealing with collecting the fine (~$800 USD) for passengers who miss the required foreign port of call. If you missed embarkation on a flight that they booked, I would think that either the cruise line or the travel insurance would pay the airfare and PVSA fine to get you to the first port of call for boarding.

Although the laws for crew and employees may vary from paying passengers, I was on a Norwegian Dawn cruise where they offloaded a comedian and picked up a new one during our Cayman Islands port call. I was on the tender with the departing comedian carrying his suitcases, and joked that I thought that his show the previous evening was good enough where they didn't need to throw him off of the ship. He said that he was flying directly home to the USA, since he had been on the cruise circuit for almost a year and wanted to see his kids.

The funny part was that I was sitting in the reserved balcony seats for the new comedian's first show. As the warmup act was on stage, he plopped into the seat next to me and was asking in the third-person about what I knew about the main act (him). Recognizing him from the poster at the door and playing along, I told him the story about how the captain put the last comedian off the ship at Grand Cayman, and how that comedian didn't want to talk about what happened on the tender ride to shore (none of it true). He then admitted who he was, that he had just flown in from the USA, and was in a panic because he had never performed on the cruise ship circuit before and was afraid that the last comedian was involuntarily disembarked because his act was too dirty for the passengers! Did I mention that I love messing with comedian's minds? Let's just say that his first show was, um, funny to me for the way he was fumbling for "safe" material.....
__________________
2015 BMW i3 BEV, Giga World (Lodge interior), Tech/Driving Assist Packages, 16K miles
Appreciate 0
      Yesterday, 10:43 PM   #16
JohnnyCanuck
Major
Canada
993
Rep
1,187
Posts

Drives: 2016 M235i xDrive
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (1)

So, from someone who represents management at the bargaining table (two deals down this year, two to go) as a chief spokesperson.

Some things to consider. There is a difference between working to rule and a slowdown. Working to rule is a completely legitimate tactic (in or out of bargaining) for a union to bring pressure on an employer. It is exactly what it sounds like (my lunch starts at 11:30, I put my tools down at 11:30, don't even bother to finish to tighten the bolt I'm working on). A slowdown occurs when you deliberately perform your work inefficiently so that it takes longer. Surprised the unions would bother with a slowdown when work to rule is usually really effective (contrary to popular belief, most employees ... non-union or not ...care about their work and do more than the bare minimum of their workplace and work rules).

Second, four years without a deal means that one side is patently uninterested in getting bargaining done. I've been involved in two rounds that were close to two years (one was my first at the table and I was second chair and the second I was lead negotiator). Both of those had proper strike votes and job action and were not caused by either side not wanting to negotiate but by legitimate differences at the bargaining table (including a concessionary agenda on our part at one point). If American has been deliberately not wanting to negotiate, I think that's a shitty thing to do to your employees. If you need concessions, negotiate them or have the brass to lock them out to get what you need. If it's the company but it's not concessionary, the Union should get a strike mandate from their members. If they can't get a strong enough one, then they need to go back to the table and get what they can. If it's the Union, then the company should use the tools it has to force them back to the table (another use for lockout).

However, in answer to your question up top (and there may be some quirks to Texas law that may apply) my gut tells me you have no cause of action against the union. The company sold your Dad the ticket, it's the company's problem to fix. If they want to try and go after the union for damages in some fashion, that's between them and the union.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:09 AM.




bmw
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST