Nord Stream 2

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by Ivan Ivanov

When a person speaks so loudly that he stated facts, he usually applies and proofs.
You did not put any proofs, I wonder why? Probably you were just shy about leading irrefutable facts?
I'm attaching your proof, which you somehow lost, here it is - an article in Wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne...ian_Federation
This is your reliable fact - an article in Wikipedia written by hundreds of authors?
And why did you choose the English version of Wikipedia, or do you not know that in Wikipedia you can write anything and it exists in many languages?
Why did not you take as a basis the Ukrainian version of these events?
https://uk.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/&#10..._(з_2014)
Or the Russian version of events in the Crimea?
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Крымский_кризис

Or is the English version "the most correct"?)

on a scale of 1 to vodka, how drunk are you?

[Real Dodger]

Originally Posted by Ivan Ivanov

When a person speaks so loudly that he stated facts, he usually applies and proofs.
You did not put any proofs, I wonder why? Probably you were just shy about leading irrefutable facts?
I'm attaching your proof, which you somehow lost, here it is - an article in Wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne...ian_Federation
This is your reliable fact - an article in Wikipedia written by hundreds of authors?
And why did you choose the English version of Wikipedia, or do you not know that in Wikipedia you can write anything and it exists in many languages?
Why did not you take as a basis the Ukrainian version of these events?
https://uk.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/&#10..._(з_2014)
Or the Russian version of events in the Crimea?
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Крымский_кризис

Or is the English version "the most correct"?)

Is the russian version written by the FSB, or Fancy Bears?

Russia's Crimea plan detailed, secret and successful - BBC News
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26644082
Mar 19, 2014 - The annexation of Crimea was the smoothest invasion of modern times. It was over before the outside world realised it had even started.

International Criminal Court: Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine Is A 'Crime ...
https://www.forbes.com/.../internati...of-ukraine-is-...
Nov 20, 2016 - International Criminal Court: Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine Is A 'Crime,' Not A Civil ... ICC: Crimea is occupied by Russia, not a part of Russia.

How annexing Crimea allowed Putin to claim he had made Russia ...
https://www.theguardian.com/.../mar/...sia-great-agai...
Mar 22, 2017 - Russia's annexation of Crimea returned post-Soviet Russia to a narrative ... in Russia, it does seem clear that Putin's campaign to make Russia ..

Ukraine Crisis - CNN - CNN International
https://www.cnn.com/specials/europe/ukraine
The Ukraine crisis has become the bloodiest European conflict since the wars ... Europe won't even think about relaxing sanctions on Russia unless it sticks to a ...

The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know - The ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../t...ing-than-you-k...
Apr 9, 2018 - More than 10,000 people have been killed in this persistent conflict; 2,800 ... Separatist forces, abetted by Russia, began fighting the Ukrainian ...
Videos

And there's lots more.......

[Ivan Ivanov]

Originally Posted by Real Dodger

Is the russian version written by the FSB, or Fancy Bears?

And there's lots more.......

Yes, why exactly FSB - personally Putin wrote this article in Wikipedia and Lenin helped him.
Gentlemen, this topic is called not "Crimean Crisis" is not "Putin eats children" not "Putin is a doctor evil" topic called “Nord Stream 2”. If you are not ready to discuss on the thread topic - why do I write all this to you?

P.S. In Russian there is an idiom that is closest to English: Apples and oranges. So we have here ))

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Ivan Ivanov

Yes, why exactly FSB - personally Putin wrote this article in Wikipedia and Lenin helped him.
Gentlemen, this topic is called not "Crimean Crisis" is not "Putin eats children" not "Putin is a doctor evil" topic called “Nord Stream 2”. If you are not ready to discuss on the thread topic - why do I write all this to you?

P.S. In Russian there is an idiom that is closest to English: Apples and oranges. So we have here ))

You have to work on your English, or let the more capable members here translate your message.


This is a thing all Europeans should be wary of, but I think none of us have the energy to handle this shit.

I'm bad at English, known by all here but at least I fix my posts when told I need to clarify something. You're playing the Nigerian letter scam on us, and this is not a forum where it goes down too smoothly.

[Ivan Ivanov]

Thank you for the advice - I really do not have enough practice.

In addition, Putin's agents are constantly watching me (crossed out)...

[Sea-Tac]

Originally Posted by Ivan Ivanov

When a person speaks so loudly that he stated facts, he usually applies and proofs.
You did not put any proofs, I wonder why? Probably you were just shy about leading irrefutable facts?
I'm attaching your proof, which you somehow lost, here it is - an article in Wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne...ian_Federation
This is your reliable fact - an article in Wikipedia written by hundreds of authors?
And why did you choose the English version of Wikipedia, or do you not know that in Wikipedia you can write anything and it exists in many languages?
Why did not you take as a basis the Ukrainian version of these events?
https://uk.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/&#10..._(з_2014)
Or the Russian version of events in the Crimea?
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Крымский_кризис

Or is the English version "the most correct"?)

Hi Ivan…

Thanks for your note.

I don’t use Wikipedia as an information source for exactly the reasons you stated. Its terribly unreliable. Its near impossible to tell who authored any given article and much of the information is grossly inaccurate. I really can’t say which is a better version English or Russian. I think you would probably agree that, in general terms, Wikipedia is an unreliable source of information.

The statistic I quoted you was from a 2016 New York Times article. This article used a secondary reference which refers to the statistics I gave in my last post to you. The source of the statistic was the United Nations. Here’s the link.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/04/w...civilians.html

incidently, I did further research and I found another statistic. Unfortunately, this one paints an even darker picture of the Ukraine killings to date. Thus far, according to the report, more than 10,000 people which includes almost 2800 civilian have been killed. Unfortunately, the toll appears to be climbing. The source of this information was also the UN.

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/...x?NewsID=21730

If you can’t read these articles just let me know and I’ll post copies for you.

Take care…

[Sea-Tac]

Originally Posted by Lups

You have to work on your English, or let the more capable members here translate your message.


This is a thing all Europeans should be wary of, but I think none of us have the energy to handle this shit.

I'm bad at English, known by all here but at least I fix my posts when told I need to clarify something. You're playing the Nigerian letter scam on us, and this is not a forum where it goes down too smoothly.

I can only imagine how difficult it would be for me to speak and write in Russian. My hat is off to the guy. I think Ivan does a pretty good job communicating in English.

[Sea-Tac]

Originally Posted by Ivan Ivanov

Thank you for the advice - I really do not have enough practice.

In addition, Putin's agents are constantly watching me (crossed out)...

Keep writing Ivan. You're doing great. In America, we say, practice makes perfect. Go for it.

[Sea-Tac]

Originally Posted by Ivan Ivanov

My dear friend, I am very aware of your russophobia, but now I have a question absolutely not about Georgia and not about Ukraine, and not even about Australia, India and not about a lot of other wonderful countries.

I have a very simple question about what the US has to do with the gas pipeline between Russia and Germany, what is the role of the US in this matter?

Hi Ivan...

It may be a simple question but the answer is very complex and it has to do with our very complex relationships with the EU and other world partners. In the past, the United States stood shoulder to shoulder with the United Kingdom and the EU. Today, that relationship is at best, very strained. But we still have a relationship with this part of the globe.

In a nut shell the US does not believe it is wise to have their allies dependent upon an adversary (Russia) for their energy needs. There are obviously more reasons and I'm sure someone will speak about those. But as far as I am concerned, its because of our very strained relationship with Russia and we don't want our allies depending on Russia to meet, to a larger degree, their energy needs...just my opinion.

[Real Dodger]

Putin had two paths to go on back in 2000. He could've negotiated huge arms reduction treaties, particularly on nuclear weapons. He could've integrated Russia into the EU, or struck a deal. He could have helped the average Russian lead a better life.

He chose a different path. Wanting to restore the Russian Empire. On the backs of the average Russian citizen

[Sea-Tac]

Originally Posted by Real Dodger

Putin had two paths to go on back in 2000. He could've negotiated huge arms reduction treaties, particularly on nuclear weapons. He could've integrated Russia into the EU, or struck a deal. He could have helped the average Russian lead a better life.

He chose a different path. Wanting to restore the Russian Empire. On the backs of the average Russian citizen

RD...

Do we know factually that the average Russian isn't leading a better life today under Putin than they were lets say, under Yeltsin.

I'm only asking because I don't know the answer.

[Real Dodger]

Originally Posted by Sea-Tac

RD...

Do we know factually that the average Russian isn't leading a better life today under Putin than they were lets say, under Yeltsin.

I'm only asking because I don't know the answer.

Good question.

Another question would be, are they living a better life than otherwise if they have someone else other than Putin as their leader.

[Sea-Tac]

Originally Posted by Real Dodger

Good question.

Another question would be, are they living a better life than otherwise if they have someone else other than Putin as their leader.

I suspect that with a more open economy that the 'average' Russian citizen would fare better. Just a thought...

[Real Dodger]

Originally Posted by Sea-Tac

I suspect that with a more open economy that the 'average' Russian citizen would fare better. Just a thought...

And what if we could negotiate on reducing all the armaments . Especially the nuclear ones

[Sea-Tac]

Originally Posted by Real Dodger

And what if we could negotiate on reducing all the armaments . Especially the nuclear ones

I don't think we trust each other enough just yet...in my book, its status quo for the foreseeable future.

[Ivan Ivanov]

Originally Posted by Sea-Tac

Hi Ivan...

It may be a simple question but the answer is very complex and it has to do with our very complex relationships with the EU and other world partners. In the past, the United States stood shoulder to shoulder with the United Kingdom and the EU. Today, that relationship is at best, very strained. But we still have a relationship with this part of the globe.

In a nut shell the US does not believe it is wise to have their allies dependent upon an adversary (Russia) for their energy needs. There are obviously more reasons and I'm sure someone will speak about those. But as far as I am concerned, its because of our very strained relationship with Russia and we don't want our allies depending on Russia to meet, to a larger degree, their energy needs...just my opinion.

Well, at last, at least someone answered something definite! Thank you.

[DerEisbaer]

Originally Posted by Sea-Tac

RD...

Do we know factually that the average Russian isn't leading a better life today under Putin than they were lets say, under Yeltsin.

I'm only asking because I don't know the answer.

Talking to my Russian colleagues, all of them have seen major improvements in their personal life since the early 80s.

Additionally, a lot of young Russians have never experienced another leader (/President) other than Putin. Similar to a lot of young Turks who never experienced another leader than Erdogan. So even if some conditions turned to the worse, they would have no comparison.

[Ivan Ivanov]

Originally Posted by DerEisbaer

Additionally, a lot of young Russians have never experienced another leader (/President) other than Putin. Similar to a lot of young Turks who never experienced another leader than Erdogan. So even if some conditions turned to the worse, they would have no comparison.

Personally, I do not think that the irremovability of power is so dramatic. I think most of those who now live in Russia would prefer the irremovability of power than uncertainty in the near future. Although maybe it's such a mentality.

and generally, these young people never experienced another leader too ))

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by Ivan Ivanov

Personally, I do not think that the irremovability of power is so dramatic. I think most of those who now live in Russia would prefer the irremovability of power than uncertainty in the near future. Although maybe it's such a mentality.

and generally, these young people never experienced another leader too ))

thats the ideology that your current regime has brainwashed you guys into believing.

irremovability of power gives way to leaders that are corrupt and only perform in their best interest. there is no incentive to help the people more than the absolute minimum to stop an uprising.

[Real Dodger]

Originally Posted by Ivan Ivanov

Personally, I do not think that the irremovability of power is so dramatic. I think most of those who now live in Russia would prefer the irremovability of power than uncertainty in the near future. Although maybe it's such a mentality.

and generally, these young people never experienced another leader too ))

The big difference is the German people have a choice. Accountability.
If she wanted to take back Konigsberg, for example, she would have to get approval from the Bundestag. (Not that the Germans would have any problem, they outclass the Russians like the Russians outclassed the Ukranians in Crimea). Putin was legitimately elected at one time, but not in the past 12 years. No accountability to his people.

[glennQNYC]

We don't even need to get into the international affairs realm to answer this... The US has a recent history of simply opposing pipelines on the grounds that it promotes the use of fossil fuels. This isn't at all unique to foreign lands, as referenced by the Keystone XL pipeline inside the US.

Let me know when the US opposes Russian (or any) "renewable" energy expansion.

[Real Dodger]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

thats the ideology that your current regime has brainwashed you guys into believing.

irremovability of power gives way to leaders that are corrupt and only perform in their best interest. there is no incentive to help the people more than the absolute minimum to stop an uprising.

The word "sheeple" comes to mind, concerning the Russian people.