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      12-07-2018, 11:18 AM   #23
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I don't believe this is an extraditable offence...

I'm extremely disappointed with the Canadian government, which I generally support.
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      12-07-2018, 12:04 PM   #24
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I suspect the financial side of the transaction(s) went through the US banking system at some point. This is how the US is able to levy penalties against foreigners for sanctions violations.
Yeah - not saying that there is any legal issue with the arrest and extradition, just that I am unsure of whether or not it is the smartest move. I don't see how this will affect any positive outcome for anyone.
Keep in mind it was made public that her father (Mr. Ma) and founder of the company was a member of the Chinese Communist Party.
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      12-07-2018, 01:04 PM   #25
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Keep in mind it was made public that her father (Mr. Ma) and founder of the company was a member of the Chinese Communist Party.
Sorry - maybe I'm just not comprehending the obvious. I'm not understanding how that relates what I said that you quoted.
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      12-07-2018, 04:22 PM   #26
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Keep in mind it was made public that her father (Mr. Ma) and founder of the company was a member of the Chinese Communist Party.
Sorry - maybe I'm just not comprehending the obvious. I'm not understanding how that relates what I said that you quoted.
Well you were questioning whether it was a smart move. The US might by telling China that even family members of the communist party are not immune from being prosecuted.
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      12-07-2018, 04:39 PM   #27
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Well you were questioning whether it was a smart move. The US might by telling China that even family members of the communist party are not immune from being prosecuted.
Gotcha - sorry, I didn't mean for that to come across as condescending or anything. I legitimately didn't understand what you were getting at.

I am still unsure if this is a smart move. I don't see how this is going to help anyone or solve anything. If the company did indeed break the law with respect to sanctions or an embargo, the USA is still going to have to prove in a court of law that she was complicit in the decision to go against those laws and sell to that country anyway. That's a tough bar to get over. Someone better have some seriously legit proof of something, or we just seriously pissed of China for no reason whatsoever.

Irrespective of all that - sanctions and embargo's are still useless and it is silly we use them anyway.
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      12-07-2018, 06:06 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
I'm extremely disappointed with the Canadian government, which I generally support.
Disappointed in a treaty that has been around for decades and is now being used against a billionaire foreign national who is accused of committing crimes in the US? Did you cry salty tears when the treaty was used to transfer murderers and criminals between the two countries or is just because Trump is President?
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      12-07-2018, 07:04 PM   #29
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Sanctions fill the gap between doing nothing and using force. What will fill this gap if we no longer use sanctions?
I don't have an answer, but sanctions and embargo's are not the answer. My wife endured both in her country until she was in her late teens. They decimated the quality of life for nearly all of the civilians in her country.

What gives the US Government the right to deprive citizens of another country of life and liberty because we don't agree with their government? A government that is frequently not even elected by the people.

Unless we have de-facto proof that a country building nuclear weapons is building them for the sole purpose of using them against the USA, we should leave them alone. If we have proof that they are going to use WMD's against the USA as soon as they build them, then that is an act of war and should be dealt with accordingly, rather than pussyfooting around with sanctions anyway.

Not only do sanctions have a terrible impact on the citizens of a country without really impacting those in charge, they have a history of not achieving their objectives anyway. So we oppress hardworking citizens for no gain or change in governmental policy we don't like.

Sanctions are terrible. They are the same as gun control laws - they may make a few people feel warm in fuzzy, but they don't actually solve anything and end up hurting the law abiding citizens in the long run anyway.
I have a few comments...

1. Sanctions are imposed against countries for far less than WMD and threats against the homeland. While we haven't seen any yet, we can reference the Saudi situation. There are calls for sanctions even though no threat to America exists.

2. You speak of the terrible impact of sanctions... but again sanctions are a middle ground between no action and force. Surely force would have the potential for far greater suffering than sanctions.

3. Citizens suffer from the decisions governments make all the time. I see the suffering from sanctions as the fault of the government's actions and not the sanctions.

4. I don't think anyone can broadly say that sanctions don't achieve their objectives. Sanctions are like any penalty... Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

5. I'm repeating myself but this is the most important point. There isn't a viable substitute for sanctions. We don't want to do nothing but give statements of disapproval (i.e. nothing); and we don't want to drop bombs all the time. We need sanctions.
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      12-08-2018, 12:06 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Sanctions fill the gap between doing nothing and using force. What will fill this gap if we no longer use sanctions?
I don't have an answer, but sanctions and embargo's are not the answer. My wife endured both in her country until she was in her late teens. They decimated the quality of life for nearly all of the civilians in her country.

What gives the US Government the right to deprive citizens of another country of life and liberty because we don't agree with their government? A government that is frequently not even elected by the people.

Unless we have de-facto proof that a country building nuclear weapons is building them for the sole purpose of using them against the USA, we should leave them alone. If we have proof that they are going to use WMD's against the USA as soon as they build them, then that is an act of war and should be dealt with accordingly, rather than pussyfooting around with sanctions anyway.

Not only do sanctions have a terrible impact on the citizens of a country without really impacting those in charge, they have a history of not achieving their objectives anyway. So we oppress hardworking citizens for no gain or change in governmental policy we don't like.

Sanctions are terrible. They are the same as gun control laws - they may make a few people feel warm in fuzzy, but they don't actually solve anything and end up hurting the law abiding citizens in the long run anyway.
I have a few comments...

1. Sanctions are imposed against countries for far less than WMD and threats against the homeland. While we haven't seen any yet, we can reference the Saudi situation. There are calls for sanctions even though no threat to America exists.

2. You speak of the terrible impact of sanctions... but again sanctions are a middle ground between no action and force. Surely force would have the potential for far greater suffering than sanctions.

3. Citizens suffer from the decisions governments make all the time. I see the suffering from sanctions as the fault of the government's actions and not the sanctions.

4. I don't think anyone can broadly say that sanctions don't achieve their objectives. Sanctions are like any penalty... Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

5. I'm repeating myself but this is the most important point. There isn't a viable substitute for sanctions. We don't want to do nothing but give statements of disapproval (i.e. nothing); and we don't want to drop bombs all the time. We need sanctions.
Condensed version. Sanctions suck, but doing nothing sucks more. I would agree.
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      12-08-2018, 12:33 AM   #31
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Condensed version. Sanction suck, but doing nothing sucks more. I would agree.
True. Sanctions suck except for all the other options.
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      12-08-2018, 08:24 AM   #32
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umm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriphill View Post
Disappointed in a treaty that has been around for decades and is now being used against a billionaire foreign national who is accused of committing crimes in the US? Did you cry salty tears when the treaty was used to transfer murderers and criminals between the two countries or is just because Trump is President?
I'm a little happier now that the publication ban has been lifted, but the decision to charge an officer of a company with fraud over alleged sanctions violations is a little unusual, to say the least. Is Trump influencing the DOJ here? I can't say, but we all know he tries.
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      12-08-2018, 09:04 AM   #33
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I'm extremely disappointed with the Canadian government, which I generally support.
This has nothing to do with the Canadian Government, this is a matter for law enforcement and the courts based on extradition agreements and international law.
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      12-08-2018, 10:01 AM   #34
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oh sure...

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This has nothing to do with the Canadian Government, this is a matter for law enforcement and the courts based on extradition agreements and international law.
This came down to the cop on the beat. Not. The government was advised at the highest level that this operation was underway. The charge - which has yet to be fully specified - won't likely pass the smell test. Given the unusual circumstances surrounding the charges the government could have exercised ministerial discretion up front, rather than putting our economic interests at risk by carrying water for the Americans.
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      12-08-2018, 10:23 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
This came down to the cop on the beat. Not. The government was advised at the highest level that this operation was underway. The charge - which has yet to be fully specified - won't likely pass the smell test. Given the unusual circumstances surrounding the charges the government could have exercised ministerial discretion up front, rather than putting our economic interests at risk by carrying water for the Americans.
I don't think anyone said it would be left up to a beat cop. The request would come to the RCMP with the appropriate documentation. A crown would likely be consulted and the warrant then executed, likely by the Fugitive Squad. It wouldn't be up to Canada to validate the grounds for the US requesting the arrest and extradition as long as the request was properly made.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/men...tion-1.4937146
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      12-08-2018, 04:27 PM   #36
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Call for imposition of sanctions? Depends on whether they're a friend or a foe.

Sanctions violated? Again, turn a blind-eye depending on who the culprit is.
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      12-08-2018, 05:13 PM   #37
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China calls on Canada to free Huawei CFO or face consequences.
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...e-consequences

For those who aren't aware, both Bell and Telus use Huawei's wireless network technology in Canada.
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      12-08-2018, 05:45 PM   #38
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More on this here..

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/aRhK10iF3cm1NNeJtYR5lw

Since this is related to Iran we all know who is behind this..
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      12-08-2018, 06:13 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
More on this here..

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/aRhK10iF3cm1NNeJtYR5lw

Since this is related to Iran we all know who is behind this..
Who?
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      12-08-2018, 06:30 PM   #40
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Who?
Maybe it is the Canadians,Germans,Japanese,Swiss,Thai,Cubans,Mexic ans or perhaps the Norwegians behind all of this.. After all it must have been them who were pushing to withdraw from the Iran peace treaty that Obama signed with everyone at the UN

Put the pieces of the puzzle together. Netanyahu spoke out earlier on. As if Robert Lighthizer is a non biased person with no conflicts of interest nor heavily influenced either

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmo.../#6c21c0594865


Washington seems to be heavily influenced by current US Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer, a Regan White House veteran with strong involvement in its Japan strategy.



And more on Robert Lighthizer here..

https://mobile.twitter.com/nine11inr...71221803397121

Last edited by stylinexpat; 12-08-2018 at 06:50 PM.
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      12-08-2018, 08:13 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
LOL. Uh, no.

Seriously though - sanctions bug the crap out of me - I don't know why we do them and we really are the only country that uses them on a continued basis these days. Hold a special place in my heart because my wife's home country was under sanctions for nearly 30 years. Didn't do a damn thing other than stifle those who lived there.
There are some double standards to these sanctions and Boycotts by those imposing them. Against Iran they are ok but against Israel and they are anti-Semitic and biased Then again you can see that those involved in passing such Boycotts and Sanctions to be passed are biased hypocrites themselves.
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      12-08-2018, 08:54 PM   #42
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I agree that sanctions affect the citizens most, but sometimes that is done on purpose. We put sanctions on countries that we know will not care about their citizens with the hope that those citizens will revolt internally. Instead of a foreign war, we hope for a civil war. Not the most ethical of practices.
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      12-08-2018, 11:03 PM   #43
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I agree that sanctions affect the citizens most, but sometimes that is done on purpose. We put sanctions on countries that we know will not care about their citizens with the hope that those citizens will revolt internally. Instead of a foreign war, we hope for a civil war. Not the most ethical of practices.
Who is Israel to decide whether or not Iranian people could buy smartphones from Huawei or not and who is Israel to say whether or not Chinese people can sell Huawei smartphones to Iran Last but not least who is America to decide what other manufacturers in other countries can sell to others
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      12-09-2018, 12:01 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsaad1 View Post
I agree that sanctions affect the citizens most, but sometimes that is done on purpose. We put sanctions on countries that we know will not care about their citizens with the hope that those citizens will revolt internally. Instead of a foreign war, we hope for a civil war. Not the most ethical of practices.
Who is Israel to decide whether or not Iranian people could buy smartphones from Huawei or not and who is Israel to say whether or not Chinese people can sell Huawei smartphones to Iran Last but not least who is America to decide what other manufacturers in other countries can sell to others
Any idea what state sponsor corporate espionage is? There is much more to this than meets the public eye.
You may become objective when you put down the anti Semitic and anti US pipe. Hate affects logic. :
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