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      12-11-2018, 09:37 AM   #67
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China has arrested a former Canadian Diplomat

No surprise here.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/kov...sday-1.4940725
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      12-11-2018, 09:49 AM   #68
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Aiming at a woman to solve this international problem is just bad. She has no control of anything, it's the government and the company made decision. US just want to send an alert to all companies and government and try to punish china on this case, but by using this women as hostage? I would say no. It's between country and country.
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      12-11-2018, 10:00 AM   #69
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what international problem?

What really seems to be driving the Americans to chum the waters here is that the Chinese tech companies work too closely with the government, leading to the possibility that the Chinese will have electronic surveillance capabilities equal or superior to the Five Eyes, especially over 5G networks.
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      12-11-2018, 10:16 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkbluemn View Post
Aiming at a woman to solve this international problem is just bad. She has no control of anything, it's the government and the company made decision. US just want to send an alert to all companies and government and try to punish china on this case, but by using this women as hostage? I would say no. It's between country and country.
What does her gender have to do with the price of tea in China??? (I think that is the first time that saying actually made sense, almost)
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      12-11-2018, 11:14 AM   #71
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well...

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Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
What does her gender have to do with the price of tea in China??? (I think that is the first time that saying actually made sense, almost)
Surely if we're going to revive the medieval practice of negotiating by detaining our opponents elites while travelling, we should also invoke the code of chivalry.
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      12-11-2018, 11:28 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkbluemn View Post
Aiming at a woman to solve this international problem is just bad. She has no control of anything, it's the government and the company made decision. US just want to send an alert to all companies and government and try to punish china on this case, but by using this women as hostage? I would say no. It's between country and country.
The charges are specifically against her........
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      12-11-2018, 11:49 AM   #73
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no charges have been presented as yet...

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Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
The charges are specifically against her........
I'm going on record that there will be no extradition.
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      12-11-2018, 11:51 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
I'm going on record that there will be no extradition.
Agree. By the end of the week she will be on her way back to China.
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      12-11-2018, 12:13 PM   #75
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Michael Kovrig: Canadian ex-diplomat 'held in China' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46527975
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      12-11-2018, 01:16 PM   #76
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time travel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Michael Kovrig: Canadian ex-diplomat 'held in China' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46527975
First pointed out in post #65.
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      12-11-2018, 01:20 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
First pointed out in post #65.
I don't have time to go back a page! Plus, mine is a little more to the point. But props, you did have it 1st.
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      12-11-2018, 01:37 PM   #78
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and Grumpy second in post #67...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
I don't have time to go back a page! Plus, mine is a little more to the point. But props, you did have it 1st.
Likely he doesn't click on anyone else's link.
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      12-11-2018, 04:37 PM   #79
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Now that China has essentially taken a Canadian hostage, Canada would look like they caved to criminal demands if they didn't extradite the CFO.

Does Vegas have odds of this? My money is on Canada caving to China.
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      12-11-2018, 04:43 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Now that China has essentially taken a Canadian hostage, Canada would look like they caved to criminal demands if they didn't extradite the CFO.

Does Vegas have odds of this? My money is on Canada caving to China.
Probably so. The US put us in the position and have been silent ever since. Should have told them if you want her, get her yourself.
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      12-11-2018, 04:59 PM   #81
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It may have escaped your attention...

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Now that China has essentially taken a Canadian hostage, Canada would look like they caved to criminal demands if they didn't extradite the CFO.

Does Vegas have odds of this? My money is on Canada caving to China.
But your country is being run by a criminal. This makes it much harder for the West to claim the moral high ground. But there is no way Canada comes out of this looking good - which is precisely why I felt that the Trudeau government bungled this from the outset.
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      12-11-2018, 05:08 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Probably so. The US put us in the position and have been silent ever since. Should have told them if you want her, get her yourself.
You really want to play that game? What do you think would happen to Canada if you eliminated your extradition treaty with the USA?

Every single criminal on the run in America would immediately jump the border to Canada and you would just become a giant vacuum cleaner for all the criminals in America. It would be devastating to Canada.
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      12-11-2018, 05:12 PM   #83
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why would we do that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
You really want to play that game? What do you think would happen to Canada if you eliminated your extradition treaty with the USA?

Every single criminal on the run in America would immediately jump the border to Canada and you would just become a giant vacuum cleaner for all the criminals in America. It would be devastating to Canada.
Of course, that sounds like the kind of threat we could expect from Trump if we refused to follow the procedure in this case. But I suspect that the Canadian spies involved in this arrest see the world in much the same way that your spies do.
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      12-11-2018, 05:14 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Probably so. The US put us in the position and have been silent ever since. Should have told them if you want her, get her yourself.
You really want to play that game? What do you think would happen to Canada if you eliminated your extradition treaty with the USA?

Every single criminal on the run in America would immediately jump the border to Canada and you would just become a giant vacuum cleaner for all the criminals in America. It would be devastating to Canada.
You're giving them too much credit if you think they're thinking that far ahead. They can't see past their hate for POTUS. They'd probably side with China over the United States just to show that they hate President Trump. That's part of why my money is on Canada caving to China's hostage demands. Notice there has only been condemnation of POTUS and not one peep of disdain towards the Chinese government that just detained a Canadian citizen.
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      12-11-2018, 05:16 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
Of course, that sounds like the kind of threat we could expect from Trump if we refused to follow the procedure in this case. But I suspect that the Canadian spies involved in this arrest see the world in much the same way that your spies do.
Not sure I follow how an extradition treaty signed decades ago lines with our current president, but who knows?

I personally don't agree with sanctions and embargo's, but they are the current rules, and it appears she is alleged to have violated them. Extradition isn't anything new. It happens hundreds of times all over the world. Are you saying that this one person is above the law because of what they do for a living or who her daddy was?
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      12-11-2018, 05:18 PM   #86
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She was granted bail, unless that was already posted.
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      12-11-2018, 05:27 PM   #87
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yes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Not sure I follow how an extradition treaty signed decades ago lines with our current president, but who knows?

I personally don't agree with sanctions and embargo's, but they are the current rules, and it appears she is alleged to have violated them. Extradition isn't anything new. It happens hundreds of times all over the world. Are you saying that this one person is above the law because of what they do for a living or who her daddy was?
When I was CEO of an American company visiting my small buying operation in China I expected not to be arrested based on some cooked up charge because of a complex dispute between the countries that I had no control over. Of course I recognized that Chinese CEOs could easily be arrested on cooked up charges in China. International business depends on civil servants and governments exercising a deference here that hasn't been respected. And to what end?
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      12-11-2018, 05:35 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
When I was CEO of an American company visiting my small buying operation in China I expected not to be arrested based on some cooked up charge because of a complex dispute between the countries that I had no control over. Of course I recognized that Chinese CEOs could easily be arrested on cooked up charges in China. International business depends on civil servants and governments exercising a deference here that hasn't been respected. And to what end?
Therein lies the disconnect. It isn't a 'cooked up charge' - the FBI had credible evidence to convince a judge to issue an arrest warrant for a felony crime committed through the United States. She is alleged to have broken United States Federal Laws that she was very obviously aware of.

I personally don't agree with the USA that what she supposedly did should be a crime, since I don't agree that sanctions are the right way to go about things. The point being, however, is that she likely did break those laws. Doesn't matter if we don't agree with it.

If you happen to think that murder is fine and shouldn't be legal, should we have not requested extradition for a murderer that was found in Canada? I know that is an extreme comparison, but it ultimately is the same thing.

She is alleged to have broken a federal law and is alleged to have committed a serious crime. We have extradition treaties with Canada. By law, Canada was required to arrest her and transfer her to the USA.
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