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      01-11-2019, 01:25 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Z K View Post

But when I made the insurance claim to fix my car (the person crushed my hood, windshield and part of my roof), it was an accident and I was at fault. Apparently because the at fault party is not another vehicle, the insurance can not claim it from the other person's insurance. In any accident involving a person and your car, no matter what the police report says, they will put it as you at fault in your claim.
Must be a jurisdictional thing. Back in my days as an insurance adjuster, I did in fact pursue subrogation against a homeowner's insurance for the damage caused by his jaywalking teenager to an insured's vehicle. The third-party insurer called the two witnesses, paid our subrogated interest, and reimbursed our insured's deductible.

OP, when you ask a question like this, you do need to account for differences in jurisdiction that may impact the answer. Generally speaking, when an accident involves two vehicles, one is considered the dominant one and liability is presumed to rest with the other creating an onus on the servient driver to prove negligence (full or contributory) on the dominant vehicle. For example, the vehicle with the stop sign is considered servient. All insurers use the same rough fault chart to determine liability. The vehicle with the stop sign is assumed 100% at fault unless evidence establishes that the dominant vehicle was speeding. That would create 75/25 split in favour of the dominant driver. If reckless/excessive speed was established, that might flip the liability.

The same generally holds true of non-vehicular combatants (cyclists are considered vehicles). A pedestrian jaywalking mid-block at night would be presumed liable unless your negligence can be established. Well-lit street, the pedestrian wearing bright clothes with reflective strips, and there to be seen from a block away ... that might do it. The circumstances you describe ... not so much.

All that said, I haven't touched a claim file in 20 years so there might be more current knowledge on this board ... but liability is liability.
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      01-11-2019, 01:32 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
Must be a jurisdictional thing. Back in my days as an insurance adjuster, I did in fact pursue subrogation against a homeowner's insurance for the damage caused by his jaywalking teenager to an insured's vehicle. The third-party insurer called the two witnesses, paid our subrogated interest, and reimbursed our insured's deductible.

OP, when you ask a question like this, you do need to account for differences in jurisdiction that may impact the answer. Generally speaking, when an accident involves two vehicles, one is considered the dominant one and liability is presumed to rest with the other creating an onus on the servient driver to prove negligence (full or contributory) on the dominant vehicle. For example, the vehicle with the stop sign is considered servient. All insurers use the same rough fault chart to determine liability. The vehicle with the stop sign is assumed 100% at fault unless evidence establishes that the dominant vehicle was speeding. That would create 75/25 split in favour of the dominant driver. If reckless/excessive speed was established, that might flip the liability.

The same generally holds true of non-vehicular combatants (cyclists are considered vehicles). A pedestrian jaywalking mid-block at night would be presumed liable unless your negligence can be established. Well-lit street, the pedestrian wearing bright clothes with reflective strips, and there to be seen from a block away ... that might do it. The circumstances you describe ... not so much.

All that said, I haven't touched a claim file in 20 years so there might be more current knowledge on this board ... but liability is liability.
In my situation, the person was a foreign tourist from Ireland visiting the USA. I don't think they have homeowners insurance in the USA... or if they do I don't know if their insurance will cover a US claim from overseas?
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      01-11-2019, 01:45 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Z K View Post
In my situation, the person was a foreign tourist from Ireland visiting the USA. I don't think they have homeowners insurance in the USA... or if they do I don't know if their insurance will cover a US claim from overseas?
I'd be guessing as my experience is pretty dated. I know my homeowner's insurance does not have an exclusion for overseas coverage and I suspect it's pretty boilerplate. But that's a Canadian policy so it might be different. All that said, it may just not have been worth the cost of trying to subrogate overseas for the insurer to pursue.
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      01-11-2019, 02:39 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Z K View Post
But when I made the insurance claim to fix my car (the person crushed my hood, windshield and part of my roof), it was an accident and I was at fault. Apparently because the at fault party is not another vehicle, the insurance can not claim it from the other person's insurance. In any accident involving a person and your car, no matter what the police report says, they will put it as you at fault in your claim.
That sucks.
The point of assigning fault or not in the system is to evaluate your risk as the insured. It's not to indicate if they were able to recover costs. But they use it for the latter.
Never trust insurance companies' commercials when they use terms like "we protect you and your family".
BS. They only protect their own interest.
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      01-11-2019, 02:44 PM   #27
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yeah but what if you hit this fool, and the cops give you a tint ticket, no front plate, and find some contraband. just shit luck right? or get rid of the contraband....the tints didn't allow you to see...thats gotta be worth something in the "reach our hand into the nexts guy's pocket" american legal system lol. putting on flame suit.
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      01-11-2019, 02:54 PM   #28
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In California. Yes. Your guilty
Yeah kind of true, I know in Calf if someone steps off the curve and cars do not stop the driver is in trouble even if the person is crossing against the light. You getting ticket if you did not stop.

When I first moved out there I use to step off and wait like I use to do back east and was amazed when cars would come to a stop and really pissed if you didn't cross at that time. I also got ticket for stopping too far into the cross walk.

One time a few people I worked with walked across the road not at an intersection and there were no cars near by but we still ran, turns out a CHP saw us and attempted to follow us into the company we worked at. He made a big stink about it and attempted to get someone to own up they were the one's he saw.

California takes this stuff seriously, way to seriously. In the east if you are stupid enough to step into traffic its your fault, but recently I have been seeing signs saying must stop for pedestrian in cross walks.
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      01-11-2019, 03:19 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by sxyblue View Post
So last night around 8:30PM I was cruising along a pretty dark street near my house. Three lanes a side, median and a break for turn traffic. I知 doing probably 35 in the middle lane with a car to my right one car length behind other wise no traffic. I知 passing by a hospital on the left hand side but even so the amount of street lights is pretty sparse. All of a sudden a 50s-ish dude in dark clothes appear in front of my headlights and I stomp on the brakes and am less than 5 feet from him as he panics and dashes past my car and then almost gets hit by the car next to me, who also slam on their brakes even though I知 sure they couldn稚 see him.

At this point both of our cars had set off from a red light about a 1/4 mile ago and the guy has jaywalked more than half the road and has plenty of time to see us coming. More than that, we池e much easier for him to spot at night than he is for us to see.

I知 curious as to wether any liability or how much would have been to me in situations like this?
Long and short it depend on where you live and the laws in your state and whether the person wants to make your life miserable. If the law says its not your fault does not preclude someone from making an issue of it and suing you. Also depend on insurance in your state.

I'll give you a stupid example that happen to a friend of mine.

my friend was drive home at night with his loaner BMW and hit a deer, generally not an issue covered under comprehensive. But the Cop who came on the scene decide it was not the deer's fault since there was sign down the down road that said deer crossing and my friend was driving too fast for condition (the conditions was deer could be crossing) so it was an at fault accident. Got a ticket and his insurance refuse to cover it under compressive the dealer deductible was $2000. Friend tried fighting the ticket, loss since the officer said his evidence he was driving too fast was the fact he hit the deer, judge bought it and my friend ended up having to pay to repair the loaner BMW.
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      01-11-2019, 04:13 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sxyblue View Post
So last night around 8:30PM I was cruising along a pretty dark street near my house. Three lanes a side, median and a break for turn traffic. I知 doing probably 35 in the middle lane with a car to my right one car length behind other wise no traffic. I知 passing by a hospital on the left hand side but even so the amount of street lights is pretty sparse. All of a sudden a 50s-ish dude in dark clothes appear in front of my headlights and I stomp on the brakes and am less than 5 feet from him as he panics and dashes past my car and then almost gets hit by the car next to me, who also slam on their brakes even though I知 sure they couldn稚 see him.

At this point both of our cars had set off from a red light about a 1/4 mile ago and the guy has jaywalked more than half the road and has plenty of time to see us coming. More than that, we池e much easier for him to spot at night than he is for us to see.

I知 curious as to wether any liability or how much would have been to me in situations like this?
Doesn't seem like you'd be liable here. you have to be negligent: at night, dark clothes, no crosswalk and you applied brakes. I worked for insurance company and handled these sort of cases all the time.
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      01-15-2019, 02:31 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY View Post
the tints didn't allow you to see...thats gotta be worth something in the "reach our hand into the nexts guy's pocket" american legal system lol. putting on flame suit.
I've wondered about that too...not sure if someone could criminally be held liable for vehicle "mods," but what about in civil suits? I mean, if someone in a lifted truck, that has ~5% tint on the windshield, and shitty re-based HID bulbs shoved into a halogen housing runs into a car/person, there's gotta be evidence pointing towards negligence due to illegally/knowingly modifying ones vehicle outside the scope of what's allowable, no? The above situation would be far from "an accident" IMO.
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      01-15-2019, 05:32 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by FCobra94 View Post
I've wondered about that too...not sure if someone could criminally be held liable for vehicle "mods," but what about in civil suits? I mean, if someone in a lifted truck, that has ~5% tint on the windshield, and shitty re-based HID bulbs shoved into a halogen housing runs into a car/person, there's gotta be evidence pointing towards negligence due to illegally/knowingly modifying ones vehicle outside the scope of what's allowable, no? The above situation would be far from "an accident" IMO.
To your point I live in PA and PA law clearly states you can not add or delete any thing on the car if it did not come from the factory. If someone can prove the accident happen due to a modification you could be come liable for the accident. It is kind of like the warranty law, if the mod did not cause the warranty failure they have to fix but if it did then they do not have to fix.

I have 53 Ford Pickup and when I was in high school you can imagine I got pulled over for just being a kid driving a flashy vehicle, and a few time I had police try to give me a ticket for not wearing a seat belt. Had to got to court once and pulled out the PA law which said I was not require to have seatbelt since the vehicle never came equipped with them. Ticket tossed and officer pissed.
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      01-15-2019, 07:02 PM   #33
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i just got a cell phone ticket. I have two cell phones. That are in my cupholder. Reach for my chapstick the cell hpone falls on to gear selector. I look down; pick up phone; shift gears; brake; signal;clutch in and out; oh and also steer; and cop comes out and says I was texting. LMAO. Like u just cannot make this stuff up. Plus he is in a parking lot; my windows at 18% tinted and he says he saw me in the car????? lol mandatory court apperance; so the judge can baby me and say how dangerous it text and drive...my screen time is avg 30 mins. I dont text anyone. U also gotta go to court for having snow on ur car and not clearing it off. Like the amount of time it takes to fight this; might as well just bend over and take it. Meanwhile people are facetiming in the left lane and just continue on their merry ways. Legit haven't taken the M out in 2 weeks and a 5 min trip to the chiropractor I get a ticket in my hometown of 26 years; by the son of a police chief whom was ousted on misconduct violations. ugh.

meanwhile houses in my neighboorhood were robbed during broad daylight; and this ass hat is posted on a intersection during rush hour to ticket traffic violations.

What happened to actual police work. Its so easy to be a cop, in a rich ass town. Nothing bad happens. Whereas LA cops have to legit fear for their lives every second.

Idk i aint MLK, so Im just venting, but god damn can a man get a break out here


TL;DR--> you are guilty until proven innocent in MUNCIPAL court. simple as that. there aint no jury, and the muncipal judges are appointed by the mayor; in a bankrupt town with some of the highest tax rates in the state.

I know; I know. it is what it is. Damn shame.

I know off topic; but like people on a two lane mediated highway have been crossing the road and walking up and down it at night; and the cops let it slide. Cause u pick a bum up and drop him off somewhere and thats the end of it no revenue. Only for you to pop him with your car.
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      01-16-2019, 09:02 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY View Post
i just got a cell phone ticket. I have two cell phones. That are in my cupholder. Reach for my chapstick the cell hpone falls on to gear selector. I look down; pick up phone; shift gears; brake; signal;clutch in and out; oh and also steer; and cop comes out and says I was texting. LMAO. Like u just cannot make this stuff up. Plus he is in a parking lot; my windows at 18% tinted and he says he saw me in the car????? lol mandatory court apperance; so the judge can baby me and say how dangerous it text and drive...my screen time is avg 30 mins. I dont text anyone. U also gotta go to court for having snow on ur car and not clearing it off. Like the amount of time it takes to fight this; might as well just bend over and take it. Meanwhile people are facetiming in the left lane and just continue on their merry ways. Legit haven't taken the M out in 2 weeks and a 5 min trip to the chiropractor I get a ticket in my hometown of 26 years; by the son of a police chief whom was ousted on misconduct violations. ugh.

meanwhile houses in my neighboorhood were robbed during broad daylight; and this ass hat is posted on a intersection during rush hour to ticket traffic violations.

What happened to actual police work. Its so easy to be a cop, in a rich ass town. Nothing bad happens. Whereas LA cops have to legit fear for their lives every second.

Idk i aint MLK, so Im just venting, but god damn can a man get a break out here


TL;DR--> you are guilty until proven innocent in MUNCIPAL court. simple as that. there aint no jury, and the muncipal judges are appointed by the mayor; in a bankrupt town with some of the highest tax rates in the state.

I know; I know. it is what it is. Damn shame.

I know off topic; but like people on a two lane mediated highway have been crossing the road and walking up and down it at night; and the cops let it slide. Cause u pick a bum up and drop him off somewhere and thats the end of it no revenue. Only for you to pop him with your car.
That's NJ for you... a state that doesn't even let people pump their own gas.
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      01-16-2019, 10:45 AM   #35
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Out of interest...

Did this fall under collision or comprehensive, e.g. a deer is comprehensive?

Did the insurance say it was your "fault" b/c you were not in control of your vehicle, e.g. same as if you rear end another car?

When you say "fault" is that b/c your insurance paid and you paid a deductible or b/c the insurance company considers it a "chargeable" accident meaning you exceed the payout threshold and therefore your insurance counted it against you.

Either way couldn't you sue the person to recover damages?
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      01-16-2019, 10:49 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
Someone close by my work tried to cross the freeway and got hit 3 times couple days ago.
You're certainly liable if, after hitting said person, you put the car in reverse and hit them again. ........
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      01-16-2019, 11:12 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by omasou View Post
Out of interest...

Did this fall under collision or comprehensive, e.g. a deer is comprehensive?

Did the insurance say it was your "fault" b/c you were not in control of your vehicle, e.g. same as if you rear end another car?

When you say "fault" is that b/c your insurance paid and you paid a deductible or b/c the insurance company considers it a "chargeable" accident meaning you exceed the payout threshold and therefore your insurance counted it against you.

Either way couldn't you sue the person to recover damages?
Collision. Pedestrian knockdowns are always collision.
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      01-16-2019, 11:15 AM   #38
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      01-16-2019, 01:13 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY View Post
i just got a cell phone ticket. I have two cell phones. That are in my cupholder. Reach for my chapstick the cell hpone falls on to gear selector. I look down; pick up phone; shift gears; brake; signal;clutch in and out; oh and also steer; and cop comes out and says I was texting. LMAO. Like u just cannot make this stuff up. Plus he is in a parking lot; my windows at 18% tinted and he says he saw me in the car????? lol mandatory court apperance; so the judge can baby me and say how dangerous it text and drive...my screen time is avg 30 mins. I dont text anyone. U also gotta go to court for having snow on ur car and not clearing it off. Like the amount of time it takes to fight this; might as well just bend over and take it. Meanwhile people are facetiming in the left lane and just continue on their merry ways. Legit haven't taken the M out in 2 weeks and a 5 min trip to the chiropractor I get a ticket in my hometown of 26 years; by the son of a police chief whom was ousted on misconduct violations. ugh.

meanwhile houses in my neighboorhood were robbed during broad daylight; and this ass hat is posted on a intersection during rush hour to ticket traffic violations.

What happened to actual police work. Its so easy to be a cop, in a rich ass town. Nothing bad happens. Whereas LA cops have to legit fear for their lives every second.

Idk i aint MLK, so Im just venting, but god damn can a man get a break out here


TL;DR--> you are guilty until proven innocent in MUNCIPAL court. simple as that. there aint no jury, and the muncipal judges are appointed by the mayor; in a bankrupt town with some of the highest tax rates in the state.

I know; I know. it is what it is. Damn shame.

I know off topic; but like people on a two lane mediated highway have been crossing the road and walking up and down it at night; and the cops let it slide. Cause u pick a bum up and drop him off somewhere and thats the end of it no revenue. Only for you to pop him with your car.

You do realize towns can not make money solving robberies.
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      01-16-2019, 01:17 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
You're certainly liable if, after hitting said person, you put the car in reverse and hit them again. ........
As my uncle use to say (he was truck driver) if you hit someone make sure you kill them, they can not sue you and they can not be witness against you. He only said this because the laws this country create to protect idiots.
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      01-16-2019, 01:25 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by CTinline-six View Post
That's NJ for you... a state that doesn't even let people pump their own gas.
are you kidding?! That's the ONLY reason I live here, I hate pumping my own gas on a cold, hot, rainy and pretty much any day.
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      01-16-2019, 03:57 PM   #42
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are you kidding?! That's the ONLY reason I live here, I hate pumping my own gas on a cold, hot, rainy and pretty much any day.
dude idk, its generally good practice to not be in your car when it's being pumped

in turkey you have attendants because unemployment through the roof but even there i step out and wait until it's ready to go
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      01-16-2019, 04:12 PM   #43
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are you kidding?! That's the ONLY reason I live here, I hate pumping my own gas on a cold, hot, rainy and pretty much any day.
My dad was extremely upset when they started making you pumping your own gas. Now I find it interest people complain that NJ will not allow them to pump their own gas.

I am with you, anytime I can I stop in NJ and let them fill my gas and saving $0.20/Gallon i am all for it.

We have 4 stations in Doylestown PA which will pump your gas, clean your windows and check your oil if you like and they are $0.10 less than all the other station. Did not take my daughter long to find them and only use them. She would tell you why would anyone pump their own gas and pay more.

Last edited by Maestro; 01-16-2019 at 05:58 PM.
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      01-16-2019, 04:13 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrickem View Post
are you kidding?! That's the ONLY reason I live here, I hate pumping my own gas on a cold, hot, rainy and pretty much any day.
I'm with you. I'm proud to come from the land of I don't pump my own gas. I work in NJ and live in NY. I've always filled up in NJ as it was so much cheaper than home. Now with the new gas tax in NJ it's pretty much the same but I still gas up in NJ as a lot of the stations in NY don't have full serve pumps.
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