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      01-07-2019, 02:59 PM   #1
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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's tax plan

From: http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/taxes...x2f?li=BBnb7Kz

Your thoughts on this?

Quote:
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has touted a plan that would tax multimillionaire Americans 60-70% to fund massive energy and infrastructure overhauls related to a plan that aims to reduce the country's carbon emissions to zero and eliminate fossil fuels in 10 years.

The New York's representative said in a "60 Minutes" interview Sunday that a new marginal tax rate would affect Americans making more than $10 million to help pay for the "Green New Deal."

"Once you get to the tippy-tops, on your $10 millionth dollar, sometimes you see tax rates as high as 60 percent or 70 percent," Ocasio-Cortez said. "That doesn't mean all $10 million dollars are taxed at an extremely high rate. But it means that as you climb up this ladder, you should be contributing more."

Ocasio-Cortez pointed to past American policies that implemented similar rates under administrations of both parties.

Policies under former President Dwight Eisenhower reached 90% in the 1950s. Through the administrations of presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson, the rate sat at 70%. President Ronald Reagan then sliced the top rate to 50% in the early 1980s before it eventually fell to 38% in 1986.

Analysis from The Washington Post found that if taxes on the approximately 16,000 Americans who earned more than $10 million in 2016 was raised from the 39.6% they paid that year to 70%, the federal government would earn an extra $72 billion each year.
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      01-07-2019, 03:13 PM   #2
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Sickening.
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      01-07-2019, 03:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kent11202 View Post
this has been tried by Trudeau in Canada, the net result has been less taxes paid as the rich have moved their jobs, money and life offshore. They have the accountants and lawyers to do it. So rather than collecting more money the government has in fact lost tax revenue. I doubt the US will be any different.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...-2016-despite/
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      01-07-2019, 03:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kent11202 View Post
Analysis from The Washington Post found that if taxes on the approximately 16,000 Americans who earned more than $10 million in 2016 was raised from the 39.6% they paid that year to 70%, the federal government would earn an extra $72 billion each year.
I suspect their analysis did not take into account the increased money spent on evading taxes, as well as the impact the reduced spending would have on the economy (because honestly, plenty of studies have shown that as taxes increase, people are more and more frugal with their money).

Anyways, not surprised by this coming from AOC.
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      01-07-2019, 03:16 PM   #5
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1) That would be the highest income tax rate in the developed world, higher than all of our major trading partners and competitors.

2) For decades polls have shown that most Americans believe no one should pay more than 25 percent of their income in taxes. (That is how much serfs paid in the Middle Ages.)

3) When the Democrats controlled the House, Senate, and White House in 1993, they raised the income tax—not to 70 percent—but to 39.6 percent. The Democrats then lost the House and Senate in 1994.

4) In 2008 when once again the Democrats won the House, Senate and presidency. Obama and Pelosi (who should now know better) raised the income tax top rate to just over 40 percent and lost the House and their Senate supermajority in 2010.

History is about to repeat itself in 2020. The Democrats are showing bared teeth and American taxpayers have a history of responding poorly to tax hikes dating back to 1773.

Let's look at some history. The personal income tax was imposed in 1913. The top tax rate on the very rich was 7 percent. We were all promised then that the new income tax was “a tax on the rich.” The one percent. In today’s dollars that 7% rate only hit those earning more than $11 million (sounds like the plan Democrats like AOC are pushing.) But within a few years, the lowest rate went above 7 percent. Today the bottom rate is 10 percent -- higher than the punitive tax rate that was supposed to hit only the Kennedy and Rockefeller kids.

New taxes are often imposed on “the rich” or “them.” Then over time, they trickle down to hit all of us. That is what happened with the personal income tax. Once targeted to the top one percent but now hitting half of Americans. Tax hikes on the rich never stay focused. They slip down to hit the rest of us.

Bill Clinton promised he would only raise taxes on the top 2 percent of earners. He then raised gas taxes on everyone. Obama promised, over and over, that he would never raise ANY taxes on ANYONE earning less than $250,000. But ObamaCare included at least seven direct tax increases on Americans making less than $250,000.

One might hope she is alone in this effort. But to date, not a single elected Democrat has denounced this opening gambit in the drive for higher income taxes, business taxes and energy taxes.
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      01-07-2019, 03:18 PM   #6
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      01-07-2019, 03:23 PM   #7
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      01-07-2019, 03:37 PM   #8
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Good luck with that.
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      01-07-2019, 03:49 PM   #9
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Did anyone watch the non-science guy AFTER her that says he can break the sugars from cellulose???

I'm afraid he might suicide himself with multiple shots to the head after hearing he thinks he can take 30% of petroleum market for autos.

Sugar that doesn't rot your teeth is rather ironic in his particular case though
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      01-07-2019, 03:54 PM   #10
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I like her !
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      01-07-2019, 03:56 PM   #11
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Everyone calm down, she's talking about a marginal tax rate.

Which was much higher at a lower bracket in the 80s. You know, when we didn't have a massive deficit.
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      01-07-2019, 03:57 PM   #12
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Nuts!
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      01-07-2019, 04:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Everyone calm down, she's talking about a marginal tax rate.

Which was much higher at a lower bracket in the 80s. You know, when we didn't have a massive deficit.
Again, it always starts at the top marginal rate.....then down the ladder it comes like a waterfall.

The personal income tax was imposed in 1913. The top tax rate on the very rich was 7 percent. We were all promised then that the new income tax was “a tax on the rich.” The one percent. In today’s dollars that 7% rate only hit those earning more than $11 million (sounds like the plan Democrats like AOC are pushing.) But within a few years, the lowest rate went above 7 percent. Today the bottom rate is 10 percent -- higher than the punitive tax rate that was supposed to hit only the top marginal rate 1% earners.

New taxes are often imposed on “the rich” or “them.” Then over time, they trickle down to hit all of us. That is what happened with the personal income tax. Once targeted to the top one percent but now hitting half of Americans. Tax hikes on the rich never stay focused. They slip down to hit the rest of us.
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      01-07-2019, 04:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Everyone calm down, she's talking about a marginal tax rate. Which was much higher at a lower bracket in the 80s. You know, when we didn't have a massive deficit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
I like her !
Want Higher Taxes? Pay Them Yourself.

The Federal Government of the United States accepts donations. Seriously. They go right into the general fund, just like your taxes. If you’re so inclined, you can apparently even earmark your donation for the specific purpose of reducing the federal debt.

Here ya go:

https://www.pay.gov/public/form/start/23779454

At Pay.gov, you can contribute online by credit card, debit card, PayPal, checking account, or savings account.
You can write a check payable to the Bureau of the Fiscal Service, and, in the memo section, notate that it's a gift to reduce the debt held by the public. Mail your check to:

Attn Dept G
Bureau of the Fiscal Service
P. O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188
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      01-07-2019, 04:07 PM   #15
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Well, look at what happened with the last tax cut. The top brackets got the biggest break and the rest of us got a smaller one.

Let's also face it, the Top 1% don't pay their taxes via an income tax. Even Romney admitted he only pays around effectively 14-15% because of the way he makes his income.
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      01-07-2019, 04:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
this has been tried by Trudeau in Canada, the net result has been less taxes paid as the rich have moved their jobs, money and life offshore. They have the accountants and lawyers to do it. So rather than collecting more money the government has in fact lost tax revenue. I doubt the US will be any different.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...-2016-despite/
God you love to use hyperbole in place of fact. This has NOT been "tried by Trudeau" and you again prove that you're just completely blinded by your overt partisanship. The highest marginal tax rate for federal income tax in Canada is 33% on income over $210,000. 33% is 33%, not "60% to 70%".

Further, the article you linked to made the following point: "Tax experts caution that establishing a clear link between one policy change and federal revenues is a challenge because so many other factors are at play ..." In other words, there is a clear lack of empirical evidence linking a 1% increase in highest marginal tax rate to tax revenue.

Try using facts for once.
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      01-07-2019, 04:14 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Want Higher Taxes? Pay Them Yourself.
No, no, no. He doesn't want higher taxes for himself, he wants higher taxes for other people.

What's the saying? Democracies work great until the people realize they can vote themselves bread and circuses?
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      01-07-2019, 04:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Well, look at what happened with the last tax cut. The top brackets got the biggest break and the rest of us got a smaller one.

Let's also face it, the Top 1% don't pay their taxes via an income tax. Even Romney admitted he only pays around effectively 14-15% because of the way he makes his income.

Meh - I see nothing wrong with that. For giggles, I looked up my previous 3 years of ETR's, noted below:

2017: 10.17%
2016: 10.91%
2015: 11.24%

So - he is still paying nearly 50% more than I am and makes far more money.
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      01-07-2019, 04:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
God you love to use hyperbole in place of fact. This has NOT been "tried by Trudeau" and you again prove that you're just completely blinded by your overt partisanship. The highest marginal tax rate for federal income tax in Canada is 33% on income over $210,000. 33% is 33%, not "60% to 70%".

Further, the article you linked to made the following point: "Tax experts caution that establishing a clear link between one policy change and federal revenues is a challenge because so many other factors are at play ..." In other words, there is a clear lack of empirical evidence linking a 1% increase in highest marginal tax rate to tax revenue.

Try using facts for once.
I didn't say Trudeau imposed those specific taxes, my point was that Trudeau wanted to increase taxes on the rich. And the net result was a negative one. The first paragraphs from my attached article :

The Liberal government’s tax on Canada’s top 1 per cent failed to produce the promised billions in new revenue in its first year, as high-income earners actually paid $4.6-billion less in federal taxes.

The Liberal Party’s campaign platform said a new top tax bracket would raise nearly $3-billion a year, but an analysis of recently released data from the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) shows the expected benefit didn’t materialize.


The other issue with taxes in Canada are that by the time we pay federal and provincial income tax, HST on every single purchase, property tax, user fees, hidden fees, healthcare supplement, and now carbon taxes, one level of government or another is taking well over 50% of my family's gross income. At what point do you think that government is getting enough of our money, 60%, 70%? What government needs to do is get back to it's core business and be efficient about it, the waste is ridiculous and habitual.

Last edited by Grumpy Old Man; 01-07-2019 at 04:39 PM..
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      01-07-2019, 04:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naz24 View Post
Sickening.
You mean 1950-1980 America when we had the period of great prosperity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
this has been tried by Trudeau in Canada, the net result has been less taxes paid as the rich have moved their jobs, money and life offshore. They have the accountants and lawyers to do it. So rather than collecting more money the government has in fact lost tax revenue. I doubt the US will be any different.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...-2016-despite/
So what you're saying is we can just lower the a taxes to nothing and THEN we'll collect more revenue?

OR....

We can actually fix the loopholes that allow this abuse of the tax system and collect the revenue that we are losing out on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 90TT View Post
I suspect their analysis did not take into account the increased money spent on evading taxes, as well as the impact the reduced spending would have on the economy (because honestly, plenty of studies have shown that as taxes increase, people are more and more frugal with their money).

Anyways, not surprised by this coming from AOC.
What spending? Most of this money is already held offsore and isn't being used in the economy as a whole. And it's not like they can just pick up with toys and go to another America with the same size markets.

Good luck on that.
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      01-07-2019, 04:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Meh - I see nothing wrong with that. For giggles, I looked up my previous 3 years of ETR's, noted below:

2017: 10.17%
2016: 10.91%
2015: 11.24%

So - he is still paying nearly 50% more than I am and makes far more money.
See, that's not how progressive taxes are suppose to work.

I'm sure you make more than me and I pay more in taxes. That kinda pisses me off.

Good for you. But it pisses me off.
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      01-07-2019, 04:36 PM   #22
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AOC looks like my ex wife
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