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      01-09-2019, 10:15 AM   #67
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the researchers estimated that roughly 320,000 non-citizens were registered to vote prior to the 2016 election.

^ but if all these illegals are "untraceable" how do any of these organizations know?

Serious question, I just can't wrap my head around how these organizations make up these numbers.
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      01-09-2019, 10:15 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Look, I think we all know that numerous illegal aliens probably voted in the last election and probably voted in elections prior as well. To say that there were enough to have swung the election one way or the other, or to say that the votes Hillary got over Trump were nearly all attributed to illegal aliens voting for Hillary is hyperbole and borderline nut-job conspiracy theory nonsense.

Researchers from Old Dominion University and George Mason University analyzed 2016 participation rates by non-citizens using data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Studies. With this data, the researchers estimated that roughly 320,000 non-citizens were registered to vote prior to the 2016 election. Even assuming that nearly 3 out of 4 voted for Hillary (or even voted at all), that would still only total a couple hundred thousand.

A problem, for sure, and a problem that certainly should be addressed through proper photo style voter ID cards, but hardly the issue you are saying it is.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfac...oted-midterm-/

https://cis.org/Huennekens/Aliens-and-Voter-Fraud

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciar...illegal-voting


Jeez, Helena, don’t take everything I say as a statement of fact, please. It was a throwaway comment, that’s all. It actually is my opinion, though, to which I am entitled and I’m also entitled to express it.
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      01-09-2019, 10:17 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
the researchers estimated that roughly 320,000 non-citizens were registered to vote prior to the 2016 election.

^ but if all these illegals are "untraceable" how do any of these organizations know?

Serious question, I just can't wrap my head around how these organizations make up these numbers.
Magic.
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      01-09-2019, 10:17 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herdalum View Post
They let their dogs vote out there, lol...
"Sure, I may let her drive once in a while, but she's never EVER off her leash"

or allowed to vote
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      01-09-2019, 10:17 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
the researchers estimated that roughly 320,000 non-citizens were registered to vote prior to the 2016 election.

^ but if all these illegals are "untraceable" how do any of these organizations know?

Serious question, I just can't wrap my head around how these organizations make up these numbers.
You answered your own question, didn’t you? They make them up.
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      01-09-2019, 10:20 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
"Sure, I may let her drive once in a while, but she's never EVER off her leash"

or allowed to vote
Yeah, but you’re a rare breed out there, not being a looney lefty...or an illegal...
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      01-09-2019, 10:21 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herdalum View Post

Don’t take everything I say as a statement of fact.


LOL. Check! I feel this should be posted in the FAQ section of the political forums, haha.

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      01-09-2019, 10:21 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herdalum View Post
They let their dogs vote out there, lol...
Hey, my dog's a border collie. He should be able to vote. Though the cat hassling lobby would really go after his vote..........
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      01-09-2019, 10:25 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Hey, my dog's a border collie. He should be able to vote. Though the cat hassling lobby would really go after his vote..........
Border collies are very smart. Yours would no doubt cancel your vote.
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      01-09-2019, 10:32 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Circuit Hunter View Post
San Diego resident checking in, no border concerns here. Those long lines waiting to get into the U.S. are filled with scary surfer dudes coming back from baja with 10 boards on top of their 95' Isuzu Trooper and hungry U.S. peeps who make a day trip to Puerto Nuevo for yummy lobster. Not to mention the thousands of Tijuana residents who cross the border daily to commute to their careers in the U.S., some of whom I work with.

Lets spend the dough beefing up the U.S. Coast Guard, current border entries, increase technology and resources to locate smuggling tunnels and repair the fence that already exists as needed.

The "Wall" is publicity stunt, nothing more. Amazing how many fall for this fear tactic...
First, the American voters and the Border Patrol disagree with you. But hey it sounds like you have it all figured out. Perhaps you should run for office if you really think everyone agrees with you.
How easily we forget! The majority of voters did not vote for Donald Trump.
This repeated rhetoric smacks of desperation. We all know the presidential election isn't determined by a straight majority. I always hear this argument like someone claiming their team won the Super Bowl because they had the most time of possession. That just isn't how we determine the victor!

I notice no rebuttal regarding the official CBP position that a physical barrier is a critical component of border security.
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      01-09-2019, 10:33 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
This repeated rhetoric smacks of desperation. :
Sure
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      01-09-2019, 10:35 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herdalum View Post
Yeah, but youíre a rare breed out there, not being a looney lefty...or an illegal...
Hey, now, several on my wife's side are/were. Almost all have now gone thru the process and been naturalized. Wife even has FMS
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      01-09-2019, 11:29 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herdalum View Post
Border collies are very smart. Yours would no doubt cancel your vote.
Are those the kind that guard our border?
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      01-09-2019, 11:45 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
prooooobably the wrong section of the forum for you....

BTW when you say "stirring crap and fallacies" do you mean like the one a couple posts above about wide spread illegal voting?

Let me ask you a question. What logic dictates that only someone from the US can have an opinion about the POTUS when the POTUS creates policies that effect the entire world?

Seems pretty narrow minded if you ask me.
Not the wrong section. I have answered you in another thread, and if you had read the response, you would have known why I come to this section. Suggest you read that first.

The illegal voting is not a fallacy nor is B.S.. Noone knows for sure, and I don't know enough to opiniate on it, given I am not in USA. I have not seen the intelligence reports or any reports on the matter to be sure.

What I do know is of the economical policies and the tax policies as does do concern me and affect my practice. Aside from the crumbling deficit due to the tax cut coupled to the previous expenditure from Obama/Bush/Clinton administrations whom have amassed tons of debt (especially Obama), I see all of Trump's policies positively, including the Trade War with China, the NAFTA, TPP and other renegotiations. Some nations may have been literally "screwed" but it was benefitial for America and many other countries, as there was a significant portion of proctetionist barriers coupled in those treaties related to those inside of it (just like the EU zone. I have exported to the EU zone, and I find it the worse place ever. Even my crappy country, is better to deal with in terms of imports).

America's markets will have an awful 2019, but that is to be expected as by APT or CAPM, the reasons are plenty obvious, especially given the 10 or so years of growth and the increase in FED rates. Don't see that as Trump's fault, although his tax cut, has not exactly made things easier here.

I believe we as citizens from other places have to respect the opinion of Americans who elected Trump. His policies may affect others, but we get no say on the matter, as frankly we did not make the choice, and Trump gives 2 shits about us. He is doing at he genuinely feels is best for America, and so far he has achieved a great deal of success for Americans. I just believe the method of economic impulsion through cheap credit that Obama used and Trump keeps referring to, is risky in terms of the obscene American Debt.

Besides there will always be winners and losers in any form of policy. You may have been screwed from his policies, I for one haven't and have gained from it, and compared to the policies favoured by the vast majority of Democrats and a minority of Republicans, things are great.

I have read all the reports on the Russian Dossier, in fact I read pretty much every document released. I do genuinely believe Trump Jr's head will roll, as he is a massive moron, and so will Kuschner's and Manafort's, but other than that I saw nothing that got my attention. The Trump Tower in Russia (and apparently one in China too), has not even started to be constructed, although the permit was released in 2016, it will be hard to correlate the two to financial gain, as so far nothing has been gained to it. There is no way to say Russians meddled with the election, or if there was meddling there is no way to say Trump was aware. Flynn, Gates and Manafort got screwed from totally unrelated things (illegal lobbying in 2006 to 2010, tax evasion and money laundering), that relate to past crimes (from even before Trump started stating he was a candidate). This is my take from a neutral outsider. I frankly do not care if he is indicted or not or impeached or not (as Pence is probably even better in economical speak), but I have seen plenty of evidence to get a ton of people screwed in there.

This is my take.
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      01-09-2019, 11:51 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
1. Not a Trump hater here. Simply a patriot. You should be too. If you read before you typed, you'd know I have said a few positive things about Trump policies in the "hit or miss" thread.
2. My fallacies are?

I care significantly about America, and other than his cheap government credit formula which Obama has already saturated and Trump insists on, I see no real problem with his presidency to any American. As I stated in my previous post here in this thread, I see his presidency as an outsider, and comparting his error or mistakes to his "hits" I believe he is one of the best leaders in the last 2 decades America has had. He is a con man in the way he sells his image, but other than that, all is well.


I see a ton of false cause falacy atributing to Trump things which can not be directly correlated, tons of burden proof descrediting others, instead of looking it up, and slippery slope fallacies.

That is all
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      01-09-2019, 11:53 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosM4 View Post
Not the wrong section. I have answered you in another thread, and if you had read the response, you would have known why I come to this section. Suggest you read that first.

1.The illegal voting is not a fallacy nor is B.S.. Noone knows for sure, and I don't know enough to opiniate on it, given I am not in USA. I have not seen the intelligence reports or any reports on the matter to be sure.

What I do know is of the economical policies and the tax policies as does do concern me and affect my practice. Aside from the crumbling deficit due to the tax cut coupled to the previous expenditure from Obama/Bush/Clinton administrations whom have amassed tons of debt (especially Obama), I see all of Trump's policies positively, including the Trade War with China, the NAFTA, TPP and other renegotiations. Some nations may have been literally "screwed" but it was benefitial for America and many other countries, as there was a significant portion of proctetionist barriers coupled in those treaties related to those inside of it (just like the EU zone. I have exported to the EU zone, and I find it the worse place ever. Even my crappy country, is better to deal with in terms of imports).

.

I have read all the reports on the Russian Dossier, in fact I read pretty much every document released. I do genuinely believe Trump Jr's head will roll, as he is a massive moron, and so will Kuschner's and Manafort's, but other than that I saw nothing that got my attention. The Trump Tower in Russia (and apparently one in China too), has not even started to be constructed, although the permit was released in 2016, it will be hard to correlate the two to financial gain, as so far nothing has been gained to it. There is no way to say Russians meddled with the election, or if there was meddling there is no way to say Trump was aware. Flynn, Gates and Manafort got screwed from totally unrelated things (illegal lobbying in 2006 to 2010, tax evasion and money laundering), that relate to past crimes (from even before Trump started stating he was a candidate). 2. This is my take from a neutral outsider. I frankly do not care if he is indicted or not or impeached or not (as Pence is probably even better in economical speak), but I have seen plenty of evidence to get a ton of people screwed in there.

This is my take.
1. Which is it?
2. You are not neutral. You are using Trump sound bites.
3. Excuse my phrase "you should be too" from a previous post as you are not an American.
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      01-09-2019, 11:57 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
Are those the kind that guard our border?
I don’t know about that, but our MSM and academia are the border collies for the leftist loonies, keeping them nicely herded along the socialist path.
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      01-09-2019, 11:59 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosM4 View Post
I care significantly about America, and other than his cheap government credit formula which Obama has already saturated and Trump insists on, I see no real problem with his presidency to any American. As I stated in my previous post here in this thread, I see his presidency as an outsider, and comparting his error or mistakes to his "hits" I believe he is one of the best leaders in the last 2 decades America has had. He is a con man in the way he sells his image, but other than that, all is well.


I see a ton of false cause falacy atributing to Trump things which can not be directly correlated, tons of burden proof descrediting others, instead of looking it up, and slippery slope fallacies.

That is all
You see things more clearly from Brazil than the Trump deranged do from here.
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      01-09-2019, 12:00 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herdalum View Post
I donít know about that, but our MSM and academia are the border collies for the leftist loonies, keeping them nicely herded along the socialist path.
That is one of the worst analogies I have ever heard. Are you still hung over from the Clemson national championship parties?
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      01-09-2019, 12:02 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
That is one of the worst analogies I have ever heard. Are you still hung over from the Clemson national championship parties?
Maybe because it wasn't even an analogy
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      01-09-2019, 12:03 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
That is one of the worst analogies I have ever heard. Are you still hung over from the Clemson national championship parties?
Haha... no, you have to stop partying to be hungover...

(truth in advertising to the anal among us, that was a joke, I’m not really still partying)
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      01-09-2019, 12:10 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Maybe because it wasn't even an analogy
Counterpoint: Your sources?
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