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      01-09-2019, 03:12 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
Yeah, pretty much.
The Framers knew the importance of guaranteeing each State more or less an equal voice on the Federal level.
This is, again, what separates the US system from a lot of other systems, where provinces derive their authority, budget, and power from the central government in the national capital.
In the United States, it's the opposite (as we see in the current shutdown).
Federal funding and power is ultimately vested in State representatives, which must agree, or it's not happening.
Democrats especially need to recognize that it is also precisely thanks to this arrangement that prevents the Federal Government and the Executive Branch from unilaterally deciding on issues (such as the President unilaterally funding the wall without approval of the States/Congress).

So, to be fair, it's an arrangement that sometimes works in favor and sometimes works against parties on both sides of the isle, which is fair, because ultimately it prevents one branch, party, state, person, etc. from imposing its unilateral will over another.
This is exactly what the Framers wanted in the balance of power where a plurality is not enough to suffice, as they very-much feared tyranny resulting from power concentrated in the hands of the few.
Which, is why this will go nowhere as it has in the past when brought up. We might even see it brought up by the Republicans if they lose two Presidencies due to the electoral college, but won the popular vote. If we live that long of course.

I do wish there was a federal law/rule that stated either it is winner take all for the state or split them like a couple of them do. To be honest I think it would be most fair if they were split in all states and not just winner take all.
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      01-09-2019, 03:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
Yeah, pretty much.
The Framers knew the importance of guaranteeing each State more or less an equal voice on the Federal level.
This is, again, what separates the US system from a lot of other systems, where provinces derive their authority, budget, and power from the central government in the national capital.
In the United States, it's the opposite (as we see in the current shutdown).
Federal funding and power is ultimately vested in State representatives, which must agree, or it's not happening.
Democrats especially need to recognize that it is also precisely thanks to this arrangement that prevents the Federal Government and the Executive Branch from unilaterally deciding on issues (such as the President unilaterally funding the wall without approval of the States/Congress).

So, to be fair, it's an arrangement that sometimes works in favor and sometimes works against parties on both sides of the isle, which is fair, because ultimately it prevents one branch, party, state, person, etc. from imposing its unilateral will over another.
This is exactly what the Framers wanted in the balance of power where a plurality is not enough to suffice, as they very-much feared tyranny resulting from power concentrated in the hands of the few.
Which, is why this will go nowhere as it has in the past when brought up. We might even see it brought up by the Republicans if they lose two Presidencies due to the electoral college, but won the popular vote. If we live that long of course.

I do wish there was a federal law/rule that stated either it is winner take all for the state or split them like a couple of them do. To be honest I think it would be most fair if they were split in all states and not just winner take all.
Yeah, it's a dead-end and nonsensical proposal.

Regarding split or winner take all, the way I see it, if States feel like that a particular arrangement works for them, then so be it.
In theory, allowing split electoral votes is a lot more sensical than abolishing the electoral college.
But again, I would argue let that decision stay with the States, reason being since it was never explicitly mandated Federally (on whether votes are to be split or winner-take-all), then we have to look to the Enumeration Clause:

Quote:
Originally Posted by "US Constitution"
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
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      01-09-2019, 03:20 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
I do wish there was a federal law/rule that stated either it is winner take all for the state or split them like a couple of them do. To be honest I think it would be most fair if they were split in all states and not just winner take all.
A Federal Law would dig into limited and necessary power the States have in this area.
Very few people today (not you) have much understanding of American History-sadly.
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      01-09-2019, 03:24 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
A Federal Law would dig into limited and necessary power the States have in this area.
Very few people today (not you) have much understanding of American History-sadly.
Yup, I get that, which is why I said "wish."
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      01-09-2019, 03:26 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
A Federal Law would dig into limited and necessary power the States have in this area.
Very few people today (not you) have much understanding of American History-sadly.
Good comment... except the “not you” should have been “yes, you”...
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      01-09-2019, 04:13 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
For those wanting to abolish the Electoral College, they should go ahead and knock out the Senate, also. Same rational for its existence. To put a check on the more populated states. Except Texas, which by treaty, can break up into 5 states anytime it wants to (and get those extra Senators).
I mean, fuck the Dakotas and their 4 senators
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      01-09-2019, 04:21 PM   #29
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I can now proudly say I pulled a Lups It just tickled the back of my head, and I glossed over it a bit, until I read the last couple exchanges. Having the capital F really helped. I kept seeing the farmers . . .
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      01-09-2019, 04:23 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Which, is why this will go nowhere as it has in the past when brought up. We might even see it brought up by the Republicans if they lose two Presidencies due to the electoral college, but won the popular vote. If we live that long of course.

I do wish there was a federal law/rule that stated either it is winner take all for the state or split them like a couple of them do. To be honest I think it would be most fair if they were split in all states and not just winner take all.
Agreed the electoral votes should be split to show the percentage of each state that votes each way.
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      01-09-2019, 04:29 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
I can now proudly say I pulled a Lups It just tickled the back of my head, and I glossed over it a bit, until I read the last couple exchanges. Having the capital F really helped. I kept seeing the farmers . . .
Do you need a bag of milk?
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      01-09-2019, 04:39 PM   #32
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its dated. time for it to go. let the will of the people decide the election.
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      01-09-2019, 04:43 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Do you need a bag of milk?
Did you just offer me HER bags????
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      01-09-2019, 04:47 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stbm5 View Post
its dated. time for it to go. let the will of the people decide the election.
Did you read the comments in this thread, or just blindly post something random?

So, in your opinion, you feel that the will of the people of five states should determine the outcome of every presidential election, and that the remaining states should get no vote?

Also - might want to brush up on civics, specifically this definition:

https://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_q76.html

https://legaldictionary.net/constitutional-republic/


Also - note that in your desired form of government, the United States would turn into a true democracy, and that a democracy, in the true sense of the word, does not protect the minority majority rules. As such, your desire would eliminate the protections of blacks, gays, Latino's, women, and any other minority in the country. In your scenario, we could have never overturned slavery, woman's suffrage wouldn't exist, et al.

Awesome plan you got.


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      01-09-2019, 04:53 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
As such, your desire would eliminate the protections of ... Latino's, ...
Not so much any more, is it???
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      01-09-2019, 07:50 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Did you read the comments in this thread, or just blindly post something random?

So, in your opinion, you feel that the will of the people of five states should determine the outcome of every presidential election, and that the remaining states should get no vote?

Also - might want to brush up on civics, specifically this definition:

https://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_q76.html

https://legaldictionary.net/constitutional-republic/


Also - note that in your desired form of government, the United States would turn into a true democracy, and that a democracy, in the true sense of the word, does not protect the minority majority rules. As such, your desire would eliminate the protections of blacks, gays, Latino's, women, and any other minority in the country. In your scenario, we could have never overturned slavery, woman's suffrage wouldn't exist, et al.

Awesome plan you got.


I'm going to refer you back to my previous post. Fundamentally I find the system broken where my vote is not weighted as much as someone else from another, smaller state. Yes, I understand the why, but I simply do not agree with it. It's because of this reason why I want the electoral college gone.
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      01-09-2019, 08:22 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
So, screw all the minorities then? Gotcha.

What? I am a minority. If you are trying to place the race card you can go ahead and put that back in the deck. I'm not going to go there with you.

Regardless, fundamentally each person's vote should equal any other person's vote in a different state. This is my opinion. If you can't accept that, I don't know what the fuck to tell you.
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      01-10-2019, 01:40 AM   #38
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Do you need a bag of milk?
I am not a milk torturing Canadian!
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      01-10-2019, 01:53 AM   #39
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This thread is as pointless as the bill itself. You might as well say water is wet or that the sun will rise in the east and set in the west tomorrow. Regardless about how I or anyone else feels about the Electoral College, there's no way a supermajority of states is going to amend the Constitution to eliminate it. So, for that, thank you, Captain Obvious.

Edit: Now, if the OP had asked whether the Electoral College is a good/bad idea, that's a different topic, and there are perfectly rational reasons on both sides. However, this thread's topic is specifically about the bill. Which, again, is pointless.
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      01-10-2019, 03:28 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smrtypants44 View Post
As a democrat in a red state (Oklahoma) my vote already doesn't count in a presidential election.

The current state of the electoral college and political makeup of the US favors the swing states- so a presidential candidate only has to tailor their policy towards a small subset of voters in the entire country. Making each vote in the country count equally means that people in non swing states have the chance to change the outcome of the election also.
EXACTLY!!!!! When a potential POTUS loses, even though they have over 2-3 MILLION more Votes... Yeah, something DEFINITELY needs to be done. PERIOD!!!
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      01-10-2019, 03:31 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stbm5 View Post
its dated. time for it to go. let the will of the people decide the election.
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      01-10-2019, 03:44 PM   #42
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I'd be fine if it just went away. One citizen, one vote. Everyone gets a federal ID that you can use to vote (just once!) at any post office or ATM. Done.
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      01-10-2019, 03:50 PM   #43
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Wrong as fuck you cant let the population densities control what happens everywhere. How about you do it by land mass then. More of the country by volume thinks the way big cities govern is retarded. You want to be ass backwards in a city have at it. Rest of country wants something completely different.
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      01-10-2019, 04:05 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Democrats Introduce Bill To Abolish Electoral College
So, I'm reading, and I see that a guy, Steve Cohen, a Democrat from TN, has introduced this. One guy in 435, but you seem to making it out that all democrats have done this and are calling it a war? Huh. I'd have said "Some dumb Democrat introduced a bill to abolish electoral college that will go nowhere".

I could be wrong, maybe it's tens, hundreds of Democrats doing this, but it looks like just the one guy. And if that's the case, WTF are you worked up about? This is an example of how reading biased news sources can mess with your brain.
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