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      01-16-2019, 04:24 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
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...unless we build a wall around our entire country, it can be bypassed.

Or flown over.

Or use a ladder.
Not that it's unique to you, but I've been quite amused by this argument. The absolute best part is that this position definitely proves that a physical barrier is effective.

By saying that someone can dig under; climb over; or choose a different route where no barrier is present, is absolutely proving that a barrier is impeding free passage where it is in place. The digging; climbing; or circumnavigating; itself is the proof of a barrier's effectiveness! If no barrier was in place none of these actions would be required. You'd just walk right on through. 💡
So you admit then that a wall is pointless since it can be circumnavigated.
No. I'm pointing out that the circumnavigation itself is proof of a physical barrier's effectiveness.
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      01-16-2019, 04:24 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Tuxedo View Post
Reading this article and your insistence that guard the walls makes a prison, what makes you so scared of a strip of land without a wall on.

20+ years ago when those who came here werenít afraid of Deportation they were afraid of the IRS. ALL of them have become legal and US citizens. If you want to deplore those making a home here then ask Lady Liberty to move on to another shore.
Another news flash for you. Most civilized countries have secure borders and guess what, armed guards at those crossings. Ever been to Europe? They actually have them! Shocking! It's not a prison, your lib fraudulent talking points are absolutely preposterous.

I don't deplore those wanting to make a home here I want them to do it the right way. I have relatives that came to this land and did it by the book. They went through Ellis Island and were checked out every which way to Sunday before being released. They quickly learned the language and became citizens. Most don't bother to do that now. I see them every single day.
I took the oath and wore the uniform as a USA Serviceman to protect this land and i worked with many immigrants who came here legally and who also took the oath to wear the uniform for their new country. No problem at all for me. Legal is legal. Illegal is illegal. It's that simple. Rushing the border shouldn't put them in front of others who've waited doing it by the book.

There's no other country on the planet that takes in more immigrants then the USA and it's been that way for a long, long time. Lady Liberty welcomes legal immigrants and so do I and the vast majority on the right do as well.
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      01-16-2019, 04:25 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Not that it's unique to you, but I've been quite amused by this argument. The absolute best part is that this position definitely proves that a physical barrier is effective.

By saying that someone can dig under; climb over; or choose a different route where no barrier is present, is absolutely proving that a barrier is impeding free passage where it is in place. The digging; climbing; or circumnavigating; itself is the proof of a barrier's effectiveness! If no barrier was in place none of these actions would be required. You'd just walk right on through. ��
Technically, you're not correct.

Walking is an action too. So in the case where there is no wall on the line of the border, you'd have to take the action to continue walking in order to cross illegally.

If a wall was in place, instead of taking the action of walking, you'd have to adopt the action of either digging or climbing over to cross illegally. (or flying over - I've been watching various videos of four drones tethered together that lifts people into the air to fly around for some time).

Either way, my point is there is still action to cross, and a person can cross. Therefore, if a person can cross, the wall is not effective.

It may be an impediment, but my point is for the cost, is it really the most effective method of stopping illegal crossing? I think we both have no problem with the general goal of stopping illegal crossing...where we differ is how to achieve that.

I bet there is technology out there that is mostly military / classified, that I don't know about, that would likely be just as effective or more so than an actual physical wall and cost less to boot.
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      01-16-2019, 04:27 PM   #92
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I apologize for the iPhone blunder. Actually youíve just made my point for me kinna. Unless we put a wall around the entire country well...
No apology necessary. I'm sure you're more than aware that a few thread contributors act like lawyers every now and then.
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      01-16-2019, 04:31 PM   #93
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Law you fucked up on this! You need to delete my shit, don't integrate it .
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      01-16-2019, 04:35 PM   #94
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...if a person can cross, the wall is not effective.

It may be an impediment...
Perhaps if I clarify that I'm saying a physical barrier is only ever going to be an impediment, you'll realize that you are reinforcing my only point I'm making right now?

A physical barrier is only an impediment. We agree on this. Just like locks, safes, and every other type of security I can think of are only impediments. Nothing is perfect. We can debate on how effective of an impediment it is, but it is clearly an impediment.
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      01-16-2019, 04:41 PM   #95
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Technically, you're not correct.

Either way, my point is there is still action to cross, and a person can cross. Therefore, if a person can cross, the wall is not effective.

Technically, you're not correct. Are locks on safes or locks on jail cells or gated communities perfect? No. Can they be bypassed or broken? Yes. Are they effective? Absolutely. Just because something is not perfect, does not mean that it is not effective.
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      01-16-2019, 04:54 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
Another news flash for you. Most civilized countries have secure borders and guess what, armed guards at those crossings. Ever been to Europe? They actually have them! Shocking! It's not a prison, your lib fraudulent talking points are absolutely preposterous.

I don't deplore those wanting to make a home here I want them to do it the right way. I have relatives that came to this land and did it by the book. They went through Ellis Island and were checked out every which way to Sunday before being released. They quickly learned the language and became citizens. Most don't bother to do that now. I see them every single day.
I took the oath and wore the uniform as a USA Serviceman to protect this land and i worked with many immigrants who came here legally and who also took the oath to wear the uniform for their new country. No problem at all for me. Legal is legal. Illegal is illegal. It's that simple. Rushing the border shouldn't put them in front of others who've waited doing it by the book.

There's no other country on the planet that takes in more immigrants then the USA and it's been that way for a long, long time. Lady Liberty welcomes legal immigrants and so do I and the vast majority on the right do as well.
My Italian lineage smuggled in with railroad cargo multiple times between 1890-1900 Buffalo NY, not Ellis Is. No records of my Great grandfather or grandfather until he applied for a passport in 1911 to bury his mother in the old country. My grandfather never knew when or where he was born. I love your story.

In the many states in this country donít have walls and each state has different laws. That scenario works far better then close the border wall us off and spend shit tons of money, prevent those Iowans coming into my Chicago. Building on the best of us instead always works better then build a wall between us.
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      01-16-2019, 05:00 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Perhaps if I clarify that I'm saying a physical barrier is only ever going to be an impediment, you'll realize that you are reinforcing my only point I'm making right now?

A physical barrier is only an impediment. We agree on this. Just like locks, safes, and every other type of security I can think of are only impediments. Nothing is perfect. We can debate on how effective of an impediment it is, but it is clearly an impediment.
If your point is only that a wall/barrier is going to be an impediment then we agree, yes. And I never disputed that point, I was only disputing your view that this proves the wall effective. I'll address effectiveness below.


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Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Technically, you're not correct. Are locks on safes or locks on jail cells or gated communities perfect? No. Can they be bypassed or broken? Yes. Are they effective? Absolutely. Just because something is not perfect, does not mean that it is not effective.
Webster defines effective as:
successful in producing a desired or intended result.

If the desired or intended result is to prevent illegal immigration / unauthorized entry to the US, and there is still illegal immigration (albeit likely in a somewhat reduced number, though I don't know what it would be), does it still meet the definition of effective?

On the contrary, if the wall is only meant to "reduce" the number of illegal immigrants, I'll agree that it would likely be effective...simply because the desired goal has changed and would therefore likely be met.

Admittedly, we are not disputing that something should be done...just is a wall something that would be effective at accomplishing it. I guess I pin my hopes (perhaps too heavily) on some advanced technology.
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      01-16-2019, 05:09 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Tuxedo View Post
My Italian lineage smuggled in with railroad cargo multiple times between 1890-1900 Buffalo NY, not Ellis Is. No records of my Great grandfather or grandfather until he applied for a passport in 1911 to bury his mother in the old country. My grandfather never knew when or where he was born. I love your story.

In the many states in this country donít have walls and each state has different laws. That scenario works far better then close the border wall us off and spend shit tons of money, prevent those Iowans coming into my Chicago. Building on the best of us instead always works better then build a wall between us.
What does this mean?
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      01-16-2019, 05:19 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Technically, you're not correct.

Walking is an action too. So in the case where there is no wall on the line of the border, you'd have to take the action to continue walking in order to cross illegally.

If a wall was in place, instead of taking the action of walking, you'd have to adopt the action of either digging or climbing over to cross illegally. (or flying over - I've been watching various videos of four drones tethered together that lifts people into the air to fly around for some time).

Either way, my point is there is still action to cross, and a person can cross. Therefore, if a person can cross, the wall is not effective.

It may be an impediment, but my point is for the cost, is it really the most effective method of stopping illegal crossing? I think we both have no problem with the general goal of stopping illegal crossing...where we differ is how to achieve that.

I bet there is technology out there that is mostly military / classified, that I don't know about, that would likely be just as effective or more so than an actual physical wall and cost less to boot.
I feel like this is the Obamacare argument in reverse.

For Obamacare - Obamacare isn't that great and it is going to cost a lot, but it is a good step forward and we will improve it over the years.

Opposition - If it isn't great and it is going to cost a lot, then why do it?

For Wall - It will cost a lot and it will deter some people for now, we can improve on the technology over the years.

Opposition - If it isn't great and it is going to cost a lot, then why do it?
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      01-16-2019, 05:28 PM   #100
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I feel like this is the Obamacare argument in reverse.

For Obamacare - Obamacare isn't that great and it is going to cost a lot, but it is a good step forward and we will improve it over the years.

Opposition - If it isn't great and it is going to cost a lot, then why do it?

For Wall - It will cost a lot and it will deter some people for now, we can improve on the technology over the years.

Opposition - If it isn't great and it is going to cost a lot, then why do it?
Not well versed in Obamacare since it didn't matter to me, but based on what you said above, I'd point out one key difference:

I said that "something" should be done (likely involving technology). Whereas the opposition above is saying basically, why bother doing anything.
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      01-16-2019, 05:30 PM   #101
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Not well versed in Obamacare since it didn't matter to me, but based on what you said above, I'd point out one key difference:

I said that "something" should be done (likely involving technology). Whereas the opposition above is saying basically, why bother doing anything.
I was really just bored and half joking. But in both situations the opposition said do something better, while the people for them said it will get better over time.
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      01-16-2019, 05:35 PM   #102
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Law you fucked up on this! You need to delete my shit, don't integrate it .
Sorry, Anna. Too many wall threads.

All together, there were at least six wall threads that I can remember:
1) There's the main one, about the Wall and the political development/debate of that whole situation,
2) Then there's the for/against one with the poll,
3) The one about the GoFundMe campaign to fund the Wall,
4/5) Two separate threads talking about the effectiveness/ineffectiveness of walls,
6) And one arguing the morality of walls within the context of Schumer and Pelosi.

4 & 5 were merged together as were 1 & 6.


This is the part where I tell you not to blame the janitor for picking up your "shit" and putting them into their proper bins
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      01-16-2019, 05:44 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Law View Post
Sorry, Anna. Too many wall threads.

All together, there were at least six wall threads that I can remember:
1) There's the main one, about the Wall and the political development/debate of that whole situation,
2) Then there's the for/against one with the poll,
3) The one about the GoFundMe campaign to fund the Wall,
4/5) Two separate threads talking about the effectiveness/ineffectiveness of walls.
6) And one arguing the morality of walls within the context of Schumer and Pelosi.

4 & 5 were merged together as were 1 & 6.


This is the part where I tell you not to blame the janitor for organizing your "shit" into bins
My aim was solid! The bin was made from the best historical examples known for an invasion or escapes near our time!

I get it, just in the future erase my sarcastic shit instead of integrating it with the stinky shit. Mokoesel does it all the time, I won't be offended.

All good in your end? I'm not sure my ego handled well the night I've had. It seems like I will be in for hell, and my mean kids ain't helping again


You fucking janitor, my shit don't mix!
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      01-16-2019, 05:46 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Technically, you're not correct. Are locks on safes or locks on jail cells or gated communities perfect? No. Can they be bypassed or broken? Yes. Are they effective? Absolutely. Just because something is not perfect, does not mean that it is not effective.
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Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
If your point is only that a wall/barrier is going to be an impediment then we agree, yes. And I never disputed that point, I was only disputing your view that this proves the wall effective. I'll address effectiveness below.


Webster defines effective as:
successful in producing a desired or intended result.

If the desired or intended result is to prevent illegal immigration / unauthorized entry to the US, and there is still illegal immigration (albeit likely in a somewhat reduced number, though I don't know what it would be), does it still meet the definition of effective?

On the contrary, if the wall is only meant to "reduce" the number of illegal immigrants, I'll agree that it would likely be effective...simply because the desired goal has changed and would therefore likely be met.

Admittedly, we are not disputing that something should be done...just is a wall something that would be effective at accomplishing it. I guess I pin my hopes (perhaps too heavily) on some advanced technology.
A better word than 'effective' is probably 'impediment.'
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      01-16-2019, 05:49 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Lups View Post
My aim was solid! The bin was made from the best historical examples known for an invasion or escapes near our time!

I get it, just in the future erase my sarcastic shit instead of integrating it with the stinky shit. Mokoesel does it all the time, I won't be offended.

All good in your end? I'm not sure my ego handled well the night I've had. It seems like I will be in for hell, and my mean kids ain't helping again


You fucking janitor, my shit don't mix!
Note taken.

Your argument, no matter how sarcastic, was relevant to the discussion of effectiveness/ineffectiveness of walls.

At least that's how my brain processed it anyways (mind you, being able to process Lups-speak and comprehend it should be a commendable thing in its own right).

But again, duly noted, even if your shit does stink!
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      01-16-2019, 05:58 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by 3.0L View Post
A better word than 'effective' is probably 'impediment.'
Other than one is an adjective that describes something and the other is a noun that is something, okay - why not?
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      01-16-2019, 06:09 PM   #107
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Did we need the wall 5yrs ago? 10, 20, 60? No and donít need it now. Its a Bilking of the American people.

Did we need the internet 60 years ago?
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      01-16-2019, 06:09 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Law View Post
Note taken.

Your argument, no matter how sarcastic, was relevant to the discussion of effectiveness/ineffectiveness of walls.

At least that's how my brain processed it anyways (mind you, being able to process Lups-speak and comprehend it should be a commendable thing in its own right).

But again, duly noted, even if your shit does stink!
Do you know how much hurt will be landing on your screen for that claim?

"I comprehend Lups-speak"

Your funeral.



Lawie, I saw the surroundings I was creating it to, so I was just being a bitch, an anomality as you know!

Now I've used you for an excuse for not sharing what I came to share for long enough, now I can be all man in my manly renovating thread (not).

We must have a serious discussion on the odors of shit. That thread was a loud fart at best. You know I can stink too!
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      01-16-2019, 06:38 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Tuxedo View Post
My Italian lineage smuggled in with railroad cargo multiple times between 1890-1900 Buffalo NY, not Ellis Is. No records of my Great grandfather or grandfather until he applied for a passport in 1911 to bury his mother in the old country. My grandfather never knew when or where he was born. I love your story.

In the many states in this country donít have walls and each state has different laws. That scenario works far better then close the border wall us off and spend shit tons of money, prevent those Iowans coming into my Chicago. Building on the best of us instead always works better then build a wall between us.
Your family's story is good also but I'll wager that your great grandfather wasn't handed wheelbarrows full of cash by politicians when he came here. Didn't get all the free stuff I mentioned earlier with the vast majority of immigrant flooding the border down south are expecting, thanks to the dems

We're a nation of 50 states and share that solidarity, just like any other nation we should take care of our own first even though many don't share the same beliefs. Little surprised that you can try and associate Americans traveling through American states and foreign countries the same and justify open borders using that as reasoning. That's a head scratcher.

Just reported on the news( video included) that Guatemalan soldiers with rifles stopped the Hondurans at their border and making arrests of felons in the mob.
Are they wrong for stopping foreigners trying to force themselves into their sovereign country? No, it's a normal thing for a country to do.
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      01-16-2019, 08:04 PM   #110
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Other than one is an adjective that describes something and the other is a noun that is something, okay - why not?
The word 'effective' is both a noun and an adjective. But hey, why not?
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