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      01-15-2019, 01:39 PM   #1
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A real comparison of liberal vs conservative governments

So, as many of you may know - I work in Bristol, TN. What makes this town so unique is that it straddles the border of TN and VA. If one ever wanted to see a live example of the difference between a long term, low tax, small government state and a higher tax, more progressive state - then this is the perfect example.

I thought this was worthy to note since Virginia is about to pass the largest gun confiscation scheme to date in the USA, essentially outlawing all guns with no grandfather clause. See links:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...ation-n2539010

https://freebeacon.com/issues/va-gov...-of-residents/

I'll be curious to see how this evolves with the research below when it comes to crime rates.

Someone recently published a long term analysis of the two cities, and I thought I would share the details of what the difference is between a progressive and a conservative agenda. Same city. Same demographics. Same everything. Below is also a short story on the dichotomy of the two cities as well:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.40d0529cfde9


Which appears to be doing better in the survey results below?
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      01-15-2019, 01:42 PM   #2
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In addition, here are two sets of google photos taken on the exact same road with a separation of less than 0.5 miles, nothing changed other than the State - TN vs VA.

Note that the road names might have changed due to it being called something different in each state.

The first set shows the same road with TN first, then VA. The second set shows the same, TN followed by VA.
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      01-15-2019, 02:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
So, as many of you may know - I work in Bristol, TN. What makes this town so unique is that it straddles the border of TN and VA. If one ever wanted to see a live example of the difference between a long term, low tax, small government state and a higher tax, more progressive state - then this is the perfect example.

I thought this was worthy to note since Virginia is about to pass the largest gun confiscation scheme to date in the USA, essentially outlawing all guns with no grandfather clause. See links:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...ation-n2539010

https://freebeacon.com/issues/va-gov...-of-residents/

I'll be curious to see how this evolves with the research below when it comes to crime rates.

Someone recently published a long term analysis of the two cities, and I thought I would share the details of what the difference is between a progressive and a conservative agenda. Same city. Same demographics. Same everything. Below is also a short story on the dichotomy of the two cities as well:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.40d0529cfde9


Which appears to be doing better in the survey results below?
Can you post the same comparison at the state level?
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      01-15-2019, 02:02 PM   #4
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      01-15-2019, 02:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Can you post the same comparison at the state level?
No, this was specifically a research project done on this particular town, due to the near identical demographics, size, racial makeup, etc.
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      01-15-2019, 02:06 PM   #6
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Have an example of a Libertarian town?
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      01-15-2019, 02:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
Have an example of a Libertarian town?
I wish, although Bristol, TN and the neighboring towns that make up the Tri-Cities (Bristol-Kingsport-Johnson City) are pretty close to that. I live here and the general consensus of our government is to pretty much leave everyone alone.
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      01-15-2019, 02:44 PM   #8
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instead of right wing panic nonsense can you post the actual text of the legislation?
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      01-15-2019, 03:05 PM   #9
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What are the specific policy differences that lead to the disparity?
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      01-15-2019, 04:03 PM   #10
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A small town has a much different demographic than large cities. I think there's definitely a benefit for smaller govt in these kind of places as things that help large cities may not work in a small town.
That said, I don't think "small govt" could work for a place like SF.

There is a lack of teachers not because the cities can't afford to hire them - it's because the teachers can't make enough to live in those places. There is a huge amount of SF teacher job openings that people are not filling. I have friends who quit teaching because it is not possible to make a living wage on the low teacher salaries.

Also, city owned properties are making a lot of money from businesses and tenants that lease the space. City owned spaces were acquired a long time ago when land was cheap. With land and property prices skyrocketing on the private market (SF commercial rent is $80 per square foot), the city's properties and land is dirt cheap for businesses to lease. As such city owned leases are much more desirable than private leases.
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      01-15-2019, 04:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Well.... I mean, you can expand the rationale of my post to larger groups and areas in the past where Big Government Control versus the Free Market has had equal footing as well, and I believe the results were about the same.

Think East and West Berlin. Think North and South Korea.
Those are extreme cases... Socialism doesn't mean Totalitarianism.

Markets need to be controlled in some way so everyone is playing on a level playing field. Without regulation and oversight, large corporations do not have people's interests in mind and would screw over people to get profits for shareholders. A great example of this is in China where capitalism is unfettered and large companies have huge amounts of power and sway. Terrible working conditions, low wages and mass environmental pollution.

Again, very different than small businesses in small town USA.
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      01-15-2019, 04:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
Those are extreme cases... Socialism doesn't mean Totalitarianism.

Markets need to be controlled in some way so everyone is playing on a level playing field. Without regulation and oversight, large corporations do not have people's interests in mind and would screw over people to get profits for shareholders. A great example of this is in China where capitalism is unfettered and large companies have huge amounts of power and sway. Terrible working conditions, low wages and mass environmental pollution.

Again, very different than small businesses in small town USA.

Dude, I nearly spit out my coffee. I am assuming you are just being funny and your post wasn't serious?

1) Socialism doesn't mean Totalitarianism?
Yes it does. It may not at first, but it will always lead to totalitarianism if left long enough.

2) Large corporations do not have people's interests in mind and would screw over people to get profits for shareholders.
But only large ones? Small corporations are benevolent in your eyes? When is the switch over? I'm dying to know.
Also: People = Shareholders. They are the same thing.

3) A great example of this is in China where capitalism is unfettered.
I don't even know where to start.... China.....unfettered capitalism? Oh. My. God.
See link: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...hina-have.html

Thanks man. That really made me chuckle as I wrapped up my day.
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      01-15-2019, 04:46 PM   #13
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Pathetically comical to watch democrats enact firearm laws when they know nothing about firearms. They have no concept on what makes one rifle different and illegal when another one isn't..

Of course they also assume criminals will obey gun laws.

And even with obeying a firearm law: Someone reasonably competent can easily get of 100 shots in under a minute with a relatively tame Glock 26 handgun.

Liberalism is indeed a mental disease.
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      01-15-2019, 04:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Dude, I nearly spit out my coffee. I am assuming you are just being funny and your post wasn't serious?

1) Socialism doesn't mean Totalitarianism?
Yes it does. It may not at first, but it will always lead to totalitarianism if left long enough.

2) Large corporations do not have people's interests in mind and would screw over people to get profits for shareholders.
But only large ones? Small corporations are benevolent in your eyes? When is the switch over? I'm dying to know.
Also: People = Shareholders. They are the same thing.

3) A great example of this is in China where capitalism is unfettered.
I don't even know where to start.... China.....unfettered capitalism? Oh. My. God.
See link: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...hina-have.html

Thanks man. That really made me chuckle as I wrapped up my day.
1. This is where most people get confused so I understand your confusion. Socialism is not Marxist-Leninst. Maxist-Leninst is a sub type of socialism. Kinda like saying how all believers in God are alike... but the catholics, protestants would argue otherwise.

Here is a list of the top socialist countries in the world:
China
Denmark
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Sweden
Norway
Ireland
New Zealand
Belgium

How many of them are totalitarian?

2. Corporations, even some small companies do not have the public in mind. Yes, shareholders are people too, but most shareholders are not company employees and so they do not have the people who work for the company in mind when they make decisions. A true people focused company would be things like a cooperative - they work and succeed because the people working there have a say in the every day operations and decisions of the company.

3. Yes, China is communist in name, but have you been there? Political and economical policy are two different things. Politically it's communist, but economically it is a free market. If you go you'll find the most capitalistic economy in the world - much more free from regulation than anything in the USA. If you have the money, you can pay off the police, you can pay off regulators and buy influence. Environmental regulations? None! Patent regulation? None! Govt safety inspections? None! It is a perfect free market with massive growth because there is no regulation. Competition is fierce and much more competitive than the US market. Anything goes if you have money and whole cities can get built in days because there's no govt regulation! It is pure capitalism!

Even Deng Xiaoping, the leader of China in the 1980s and 1990s said, "致富光荣" (zhf guāngrng: To get rich is glorious!)

Many articles, here's a few:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors.../#5d58fb1e659e
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-...talist-2015-10
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...ce-capitalism/
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      01-15-2019, 05:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
1. This is where most people get confused so I understand your confusion. Socialism is not Marxist-Leninst. Maxist-Leninst is a sub type of socialism. Kinda like saying how all believers in God are alike... but the catholics, protestants would argue otherwise.

Here is a list of the top socialist countries in the world:
China
Denmark
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Sweden
Norway
Ireland
New Zealand
Belgium

How many of them are totalitarian?

2. Corporations, even some small companies do not have the public in mind. Yes, shareholders are people too, but most shareholders are not company employees and so they do not have the people who work for the company in mind when they make decisions. A true people focused company would be things like a cooperative - they work and succeed because the people working there have a say in the every day operations and decisions of the company.

3. Yes, China is communist in name, but have you been there? Political and economy policy are two different things. Politically it's communist, but economically it is a free market. If you do you'll find the most capitalistic economy in the world - much more free from regulation than anything in the USA. If you have the money, you can pay off the police, you can pay off regulators and buy influence. Environmental regulations? None! Patent regulation? None! Govt safety inspections? None! It is a perfect free market with massive growth because there is no regulation. Anything goes if you have money and whole cities can get built in days because there's no govt regulation! It is pure capitalism!

Many articles, here's one:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors.../#5d58fb1e659e

LOL. I started to respond to this and then realized I would be wasting my time. It is seriously like trying to have a conversation with someone that is so.... you know, I cannot even come up with an analogy. You are that ridiculous. Just completely out of touch with reality that nothing will ever come of it.

You keep enjoying your 'pretend fairy tail land' and the rest of us will understand reality.
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      01-15-2019, 05:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
LOL. I started to respond to this and then realized I would be wasting my time. It is seriously like trying to have a conversation with someone that is so.... you know, I cannot even come up with an analogy. You are that ridiculous. Just completely out of touch with reality that nothing will ever come of it.

You keep enjoying your 'pretend fairy tail land' and the rest of us will understand reality.
As I said, I agree with you on a small scale. But take small govt to a national scale... you have some serious issues which I am pointing out.

I'm sorry that you find a factual discussion funny but if it's entertaining to you then I'm glad I make you happy.

Cheers!
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      01-15-2019, 05:27 PM   #17
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California already has similar mag cap laws gun manufacturers can make and sell magazines that are compliant with almost any gun
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      01-15-2019, 05:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Here ya go, little buddy!

https://www.governor.virginia.gov/ne...837540-en.html

Will ban any firearm that is equipped with a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds of ammunition. Since nearly every single handgun sold today (except revolvers or 1911 models and similar) hold more than that, it will make almost all handguns illegal.

Since the vast majority of semiautomatic rifles in the state are sold standard with magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds, the proposed ban would affect nearly all rifles as well.

Additionally, the announcement of the ban did not include any grandfathering provision and specifically includes a provision for "possession" to be illegal as well. When you make possession of a firearm illegal with no grandfather clause, you are confiscating guns. No hyperbole about it.
NJ just tried to pass something along these lines regarding outlawing clips for handguns with 10 rounds. This included off duty LEO. How fing stupid is that? So basically an off duty cop is breaking the law if he is carrying. It got shot down. No pun intended.
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      01-15-2019, 05:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
California already has similar mag cap laws gun manufacturers can make and sell magazines that are compliant with almost any gun
People drive over to another state to buy larger magazines. Just can't use them at a range as someone might report it.
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      01-15-2019, 06:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Socialism doesn't mean Totalitarianism?
Yes it does.
Nope
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      01-16-2019, 07:48 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Yep - I think the Virginia bill even goes a step further with plans to ban any gun that has the 'ability' to hold more than 10 rounds.

This means, that even if you get the 'CA Approved' version, it would still be illegal.

Again - Glad I live in TN.
Unless there is federal law to limit magazine size it's pretty useless.
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      01-16-2019, 08:32 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
LOL. I started to respond to this and then realized I would be wasting my time. It is seriously like trying to have a conversation with someone that is so.... you know, I cannot even come up with an analogy. You are that ridiculous. Just completely out of touch with reality that nothing will ever come of it.

You keep enjoying your 'pretend fairy tail land' and the rest of us will understand reality.
I'm actually curious what you find to be so completely incorrect about what he wrote?

If you're interested in the subject look up some comparisons of MN and WI, and our Dayton vs. their Walker, and how the states have performed under Democrat vs. Republican governors. It's a big subject with a lot of variables but generally speaking it can be argued the MN citizens have done better - wages, health care coverage, etc. If nothing else, you can at least see that it isn't a very big difference.

I get your first post and it's a lot of information and time taken to share it, but it doesn't necessarily apply to the country as a whole. I'm guessing you would agree to that?
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