Login
|
Post Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
01-16-2019, 09:52 AM | #23 | |
Run Deep
![]() 6102
Rep 1,964
Posts
Drives: Back and Forth To Work
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: The Mountains
|
Quote:
With respect to your other question, I believe the straight answer is 'give it time'. Many times when a location is just a little left, or has only been left for a small period of time, the difference may not be much if any at all. But the left always wants to go further left and as that occurs over time, the variance gets larger and larger. Socialism will always eventually lead to Totalitarianism or a despotic regime and will always eventually be bad for the people as a whole
__________________
Вести себя? да, после дождя в четверг.
|
|
Appreciate
1
MKSixer9941.50 |
01-16-2019, 09:56 AM | #24 | |
Major General
![]() ![]() 5706
Rep 9,234
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
You can detect right away those that are going to be shaky, and that will fall behind and those that are very hungry, and that hunger you will have to develop. You gotta create a goal for yourself whatever that may be, a short term goal and a long term goal and you gotta go after that. And if you don’t see it, and if you don’t believe it, who else will?
Arnold Schwarzenegger |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-16-2019, 12:05 PM | #25 | |
Brigadier General
![]() ![]() 1270
Rep 4,641
Posts |
Quote:
As for China's capitalism... the current rise of China is driven by private enterprises, entrepreneurs and competition between individuals and companies - it is not top down govt mandated. How is that not capitalism? You can have capitalism without democracy. One is a economic policy, the other is political. https://www.npr.org/sections/paralle...not-democratic
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-16-2019, 02:19 PM | #26 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
![]() ![]() 576
Rep 1,673
Posts |
Quote:
I am guilty of not taking him to his word but what I thought was his intent... I agree that China is indeed very much a capitalist society in terms of economics. I do agree with you that true socialism does probably also require being totalitarian, and that socialism as a policy fails (Russia, Venezuela, North Korea). But I was agreeing with him, if it was his intent to say it (my bad for assuming), that a country can do things that some folks scream "socialist" at, without that country being totalitarian (or actually socialist) - police & fire, parks & rec, schools, and perhaps indeed health care. I know these aren't examples of socialism by definition, the government doesn't own capital equipment and etc., but this is what I was taking him to mean. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-16-2019, 02:32 PM | #27 | |
Run Deep
![]() 6102
Rep 1,964
Posts
Drives: Back and Forth To Work
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: The Mountains
|
Quote:
Of course there are things in a modern society that the government manages via taxation and for which life is better for the majority of citizens - things such what you mention. I would note, however, that nearly all of those things would probably work better, have more innovation, be less wasteful, and generally make everyone better off if they were left to the private sector. In addition, it is pretty common knowledge, and proven with the stats in my first post, that over the long run - the more government intervention in a society and more government control, the worse that society becomes for its citizens.
__________________
Вести себя? да, после дождя в четверг.
|
|
Appreciate
1
MKSixer9941.50 |
01-16-2019, 03:47 PM | #28 | |
Brigadier General
![]() ![]() 1270
Rep 4,641
Posts |
Quote:
Even in things I use every day like internet. I can only choose from 2 internet providers and they both charge a lot of money for what I think is slow access. Because there is no govt regulation of internet access, they have no incentive to speed up their network in my area because there is no alternatives that can be had. Our development was only prewired with one cable line as the developer had an agreement with the cable company. A smaller ISP decided to come in but since cable internet is run through cable lines, they could not install without running additional lines underground and through walls which would cost much more investment than they had. Same can be said of privatized education. If there was no public education, who would offer education to the low income and people with no means to pay for education? You would forever have a 2 tier education system where those with money get better education than those without. Because of privatization of healthcare, they have created a system where the costs of healthcare are skyrocketing. Because the end result is profit - not care for everyone. America has the highest healthcare costs in the world. Private companies exist for 1 purpose - to make money. It will do so regardless if it is good for society. That's why on a small scale, it is good as it drives down costs and increases competition. But as the scale goes up, there is no more competition as the dominant players control the market and prevents others from entering the market. Without govt regulation to level the playing field, things will go badly.
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-16-2019, 04:12 PM | #29 |
First Lieutenant
![]() ![]() 414
Rep 363
Posts |
Two very interesting cities, similarly situated in many respects but with very different outcomes are Chicago and Detroit. Some interesting lessons to be learned from their histories.
Two interesting companies to contrast, also started at almost the same time, are KMart and WalMart. Essentially the same business but with different strategies; the one that clearly won was not the front runner for many many years. |
Appreciate
1
Run Silent6102.00 |
01-16-2019, 04:18 PM | #30 | |
Brigadier General
![]() ![]() 1270
Rep 4,641
Posts |
Quote:
I would not be here today without the assistance of social programs. As a child, San Francisco public education, public libraries, public scholarships, govt school loans allowed me get a quality education and to get to where I am today. As such I can see the value in these and I hope it will help other children without means. But I think I'll agree to disagree. I don't think you can see my viewpoint nor me yours.
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2019, 06:51 AM | #31 | ||
Colonel
![]() 2264
Rep 2,939
Posts |
Quote:
![]()
__________________
'03 330 '04 325 '08 328 '11 335 '11 335is
'14 335 (All Gone) 4 ED's #5 Spring 2019 Current Stable: '16 340 (Wifey), '16 M4 (Mine) |
||
Appreciate
1
Run Silent6102.00 |
01-17-2019, 08:50 AM | #32 |
Major General
![]() ![]() ![]() 4517
Rep 5,355
Posts |
Not saying in the end your conclusions wouldn't come out the same. But, for this to be a real comparison we need a lot more information. Such as the histories of industry, agriculture, population demographics, political histories, state level laws etc etc.
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2019, 08:57 AM | #33 |
Major General
![]() ![]() ![]() 4517
Rep 5,355
Posts |
Right, but what I mean is somebody would have to study all of that to figure out why both places are where they are now. Like I said, it very well could be what you are saying, but you also may be surprised what an in depth analysis of all the data may come up with.
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2019, 09:06 AM | #34 | |
Run Deep
![]() 6102
Rep 1,964
Posts
Drives: Back and Forth To Work
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: The Mountains
|
Quote:
Same here. Decades of financial mismanagement by the city government, plus decades of higher taxes and business regulations, caused those that tend to contribute most to society and the tax base to migrate over the border to TN.
__________________
Вести себя? да, после дождя в четверг.
|
|
Appreciate
1
minn194516.50 |
01-17-2019, 11:56 AM | #35 | |
Lieutenant
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() 413
Rep 462
Posts |
Quote:
Yes, shareholders are people, but not the people he is talking about. The vast majority of the general public is not a shareholder in any given company - and of the ones who are, most probably don't own enough shares to have any influence on the company's decision making at all. So you are looking at a very small group of shareholders (people) with any direct influence on the company's decisions. I love capitalism, and am 100% for it above all other forms of economic/political systems. But pure unregulated capitalism would be an absolute shit show (and I understand that you agree with some regulation). It has to be regulated because people, in general, can't be trusted to do the right thing without rules and oversight when profit is concerned. We have seen this over and over with terrible results. Whether it is brokers pushing toxic assets on investors, or factories dumping toxic waste directly into rivers, the companies didn't care at all about the people whose lives they were poisoning and destroying. When profit is the main concern of a company above all else, concern for anything else far too often goes out the window. Also, I am not a socialist or about "redistributing" money, but I do think that the people and companies who are making the money need to pay their fair share for the services and infrastructure that allows them to be so profitable (military, police, roads, etc...). It also wouldn't offend me if more profits went to employees, rather than increasingly being concentrated at the top. Last edited by cjb762; 01-17-2019 at 01:56 PM. |
|
Appreciate
4
|
01-17-2019, 12:04 PM | #36 | |
Brigadier General
![]() ![]() 1270
Rep 4,641
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2019, 02:06 PM | #37 | ||
Colonel
![]() 2264
Rep 2,939
Posts |
Quote:
![]()
__________________
'03 330 '04 325 '08 328 '11 335 '11 335is
'14 335 (All Gone) 4 ED's #5 Spring 2019 Current Stable: '16 340 (Wifey), '16 M4 (Mine) |
||
Appreciate
1
Run Silent6102.00 |
01-17-2019, 04:03 PM | #38 |
Brigadier General
![]() ![]() 1270
Rep 4,641
Posts |
Yes, my home value has already doubled a few times.
![]() If you are talking about homeless issues, it has been improving. DPW has regular cleaning crews. Police force hiring is up and so is enforcement. Homeless employment programs are employing homeless people to clean up the streets. New homeless shelters are going up. Lots of stuff going on. The real problem is federal as federal funding for mental health care is long gone. Non violent mental patients have no where to go for care and housing. Also, opoid drugs are a big problem. Hopefully Trump's crack down on drugs fixes that. Most homeless have mental and/or drug issues. These are people who need treatment programs. The question is, who foots the bill. Since the federal govt stopped helping, it's up to citizens to step up. Did you know that the majority of homeless in SF are not from SF? Other cities send their homeless to SF on one way bus rides. So this is not just a SF problem. Other cities are sending their problem to SF. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-country-study
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
Last edited by Z K; 01-17-2019 at 04:08 PM. |
Appreciate
1
minn194516.50 |
01-17-2019, 04:19 PM | #39 | |
Colonel
![]() 2264
Rep 2,939
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
'03 330 '04 325 '08 328 '11 335 '11 335is
'14 335 (All Gone) 4 ED's #5 Spring 2019 Current Stable: '16 340 (Wifey), '16 M4 (Mine) |
|
Appreciate
3
|
01-17-2019, 04:29 PM | #40 | |
Brigadier General
![]() ![]() 1270
Rep 4,641
Posts |
Quote:
Yeah, the problem was because of abuse of patients and funding misuse back when there was federal mental health care. So they basically just closed up all the mental centers and everyone got dumped onto the street. Like you said, some go to jail and the others get left in the street. Most of my encounters with homeless are some guy screaming incoherently or dancing around in their underwear in the middle of the street. There's many vets on the streets with mental problems from war - people who helped fight for this country that we've turned our backs to. The system is pretty broken.
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
|
|
Appreciate
4
|
01-17-2019, 06:59 PM | #41 | ||
Colonel
![]() 2264
Rep 2,939
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
'03 330 '04 325 '08 328 '11 335 '11 335is
'14 335 (All Gone) 4 ED's #5 Spring 2019 Current Stable: '16 340 (Wifey), '16 M4 (Mine) |
||
01-17-2019, 07:13 PM | #42 | |
Brigadier General
![]() ![]() 1270
Rep 4,641
Posts |
Quote:
In the type of spending this is, it is definitely a social benefit that conservative "small government" advocates will not want to pay for.
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
|
|
Appreciate
1
///M4ster Yoda2263.50 |
01-17-2019, 07:39 PM | #43 |
Brigadier General
![]() ![]() 1270
Rep 4,641
Posts |
I don't really like bringing politics into mental illness as I feel like it's should not be a partisan issue. But California passed a measure to fund and provide public care for people with mental illnesses. 2004's Prop 63 is a tax on the top 0.1% of California tax payers to help pay for mental illness care. Current funding is not enough to care for all those in need but they're trying to help.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_C...Proposition_63 https://www.fresnobee.com/opinion/op...224097670.html
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2019, 07:52 PM | #44 | |
Global Moderator
4038
Rep 2,032
Posts
Drives: E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: -
|
Quote:
But, this is spot-on. The US gives so much aid to impoverished regions worldwide, gives substantial military aid to allies (i.e., NATO, Israel, etc.), takes care of the livelihood of illegal aliens (i.e., education, subsidized programs/healthcare, sanctuary cities, etc.) and funds so many projects abroad that you and I have probably never even heard of, in places we'll probably never go, all of which are ultimately funded by American taxpayers. Yet, at home, as a whole, we have crumbling/outdated infrastructure, roads full of potholes, public transit systems that might've looked state-of-the-art during the '60s, drug/gang problems in the cities, and a public education system that, quite frankly, can be a lot better. Basic quality of life stuff is not even glanced at nor addressed. Look at the political debates, whether state or federal. The issue is always the other party, or some external problem (originating outside the US) that is force-fed by politicians and media-alike as the top priority. Both of the major parties are guilty of this. One of the problems with US leaders (not just federal but also on the state level) and policy is that they are often short-sighted, which is a consequence of the political system that forces politicians and policy-makers of the administration to only work towards short-term realizations and bank on reelection. Policy is guided by emotion and public opinion (which is emotionally driven), rather than concrete analysis and long-term growth/sustainability. You're absolutely right that nobody wants to foot the bill for the American people. It's sad on so many levels. I'm all for a smaller government that should keep its nose out of private matters (i.e., California is an example of what a good government shouldn't be), but at the same time, I certainly wouldn't be offended if government (be it state or federal) took the initiative for some infrastructure projects and other programs that directly benefit the American citizens. We write checks to countries like Pakistan, Israel, Honduras, etc. etc. etc. without even blinking an eye. Yet, giving back to the American people is the hardest thing to do because of partisan politics. For example, a huge infrastructure project, no matter how much it benefits the American people or seems common-sense, would be met with opposition (depending on which party is in power/opposition) buzzwords like "that's socialist/big government", "but what about the environment/the endangered spider", etc. In the end, the real loser in this is the American.
__________________
2011.5 E90 ///M3 | 6-Speed Manual |
![]() ![]() ![]() | E9x M3 Press/Media Archives Thread | S65-based Racing Engines Thread | |
|
Appreciate
6
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|