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      07-22-2013, 12:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
This car will be incredibly popular in progressive places like Hollywood, San Francisco, etc. Even millionaires used to buy Prius, now, they have a better option from 'BMW' brand.
If it gets thumbs up from Ed Begley Jr., hundreds of thousands will be sold! Maybe they could get Al Gore as their spokesmodel!
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      07-22-2013, 01:34 PM   #24
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After the $7.5k(?) government subsidization, that really isn't that bad of a price. The X1 s28i and the 128i will just barely be cheaper.

As a tax payer, I would like to go ahead and say you're welcome to all US buyers.
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      07-22-2013, 01:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MI6
i wouldn't say a 41 grand starting price is awesome for something that looks like the result of an X3 and a Smart Car's one night stand.

Also, with options this thing will easily top 50k- not so good when you look at what else is out there and what is on it's way.

Again BMW is launching cars that are outside US consumer expectations pricing wise (don't even get me started on a decently loaded 640i GC).

That being said, it is more the probable BMW has chosen this route as the "i"
division has been very expensive to develop and then produce and that cost has to at least be recovered no doubt.
They should just do what Sony did with the PS3.
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      07-22-2013, 02:09 PM   #26
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So the 40k pricing is before the 7.5k gov and 2.5k CA incentives right?

So you can basically get a bare bones i3 for like 30k or and options out one for 35-38k in CA?

Could be worse
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      07-22-2013, 04:32 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
Tesla s is $125k.

I would never buy the i series or any other electric car for this price. If i do get one, it would be as my daily commuter and for much less. The fiat 500e is $199 a month.
Who would buy any of these cars well equipped? That is a joke! Haha

I love gas guzzlers.
Are you thinking Fisker Karma at 125K?


the Tesla S is 69K
Tesla S performance is 95K
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      07-22-2013, 06:59 PM   #28
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Although I appreciate the technology behind the i3, I'm not sure how well a car that looks like the automotive equivalent of an Earth Shoe will move out the door. Like one poster said, "progressive" locations such as Hollywood and San Francisco will eat them up. Many of the potential customers may be car haters who will consider the oddball styling to be a plus.

I know that form follows function, but BMW could have made the i3 much more attractive without much effort. It costs just as much to make an ugly car as it does to make one that's attractive, so the price will limit it to those who will pony up $42k plus options minus incentives who don't mind the styling. I like the concept of a plug in runabout for weekday commuting, but can't get past the cost for such an unattractive package.
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      07-22-2013, 10:54 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
The current Leaf has a 7sec 0-60...
You obviously have never driven one. The current LEAF goes 0-60 in ~9.8 seconds. I've driven plenty of them and 10 seconds to 60 seems about right. It is pretty quick to 30mph though, but falls off quickly from there.
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      07-23-2013, 12:12 AM   #30
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You assumed incorrectly.

I have driven many, and know all to well about such conflicting data.

It is Ford that has the time you are referring to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tommolog View Post
You obviously have never driven one. The current LEAF goes 0-60 in ~9.8 seconds. I've driven plenty of them and 10 seconds to 60 seems about right. It is pretty quick to 30mph though, but falls off quickly from there.
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      07-23-2013, 01:17 AM   #31
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Usually German cars in the US cost alot less than in Germany itself, how did we get to $41k in the US and E34k in Deutschland?

34k is too expensive as well!!
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      07-23-2013, 05:37 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Surely that is not what BMW had in mind to make a profit. Millionaires buying the i3 instead of a Prius.

Fact is people that are green are usually frugal people. I bet a lot of Leaf and Prius owners never even owned a BMW.

Question is will they buy this for more than double the cost of a Leaf?
In Norway, the lead and I3 will cost the same...
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      07-23-2013, 05:47 AM   #33
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Under £26k (incl. govt. sub.) in the UK makes it rather more tempting than the previously predicted £30k+
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      07-23-2013, 11:24 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Are you thinking Fisker Karma at 125K?


the Tesla S is 69K
Tesla S performance is 95K
Tesla S performance 87.5k
Metallic or multicoat 0.8k or 1.5k
all glass panoramic 1.5k
21" wheels 4.5k
perf pack 6.5k
tech package 3.8k
sound package 1k
twin chargers (to get max charge time) 1.5k

that is 107k to 108k right there. These are the ones that are currently EVERYWHERE in california. Add tax and that is close to 125k.
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      07-23-2013, 12:29 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post


You assumed incorrectly.

I have driven many, and know all to well about such conflicting data.

It is Ford that has the time you are referring to.
It's really not that conflicting. Every major automotive news source that had actually road tested the LEAF measured the 0-60 time to be close or longer than 10 seconds. There was some misleading articles posted online by obscure sites before the LEAF actually launched in 2010 claiming it had a 0-60 time of 7 seconds which were reposted by other sites(welcome to the world of new age "journalism") but once actual journalists drove it those bogus claims were quickly proven wrong. I'm surprised to hear you've driven one and can think it's capable of going 0-60 in 7 seconds though, because even getting it to do it in under 10 seconds is a major accomplishment. Look at the official track test results from these news outlets. Only Motor Trend could get one to post a sub 10 second 0-60 time. My personal tests came up with about a 10.3 second average when I did them last year.

Nissan LEAF 0-60 time:

Edmunds: 10.2 seconds
Car and driver: 10.0 seconds
Car Magazine: 11.9 seconds
Motor Trend: 9.7 seconds

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review

http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/leaf/2013/

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/...13-CAR-review/
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      07-23-2013, 01:14 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommolog View Post
If it were more than double the cost of a LEAF than BMW would have a problem but luckily it's not, and not even close to that.
http://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/


And then there is the Prius, that I guarantee most tree huggers will still opt for instead of spending another $20k for a badge.

Last edited by M3_WC; 07-23-2013 at 01:24 PM.
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      07-23-2013, 01:16 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feyd View Post
This car has been created and will be sold in an effort to boost the average "fleet" fuel economy ratings for BMW, all car companies are currently doing this. Yes it's being marketed and hyped as a new-age way of travel and they're definitely playing the "being green" card, etc., but in reality BMW (just like everyone else) is being forced into action.
They spent too much time, resources, r&d, and money on the i-program to only be used only for boosting their fleet fuel economy. That is not BMW's intentions with this car or other i-cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
The Leaf is $29k, isn't rwd, has horrific resale and has no option for a range extender.
Who cares? You are not doing burnouts and powerslides in this golf cart. Honestly pointless for $20k extra.

To be honest screw a range extender, just buy a Prius and f*ck worrying about range in the first place.

Last edited by M3_WC; 07-23-2013 at 01:24 PM.
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      07-23-2013, 01:28 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Who cares? You are not doing burnouts and powerslides in this golf cart. Honestly pointless for $20k extra.

To be honest screw a range extender, just buy a Prius and f*ck worrying about range in the first place.
Again, it's about $6k over a Leaf when comparing a similar model. That's a good distance from $20k. It also has a good bit more range, an arguably better dealer network, more functional shape and significantly better performance.

Further, this is absolutely about fleet averages and providing urban drivers a high mileage platform to allow for the less efficient cars that continue to sell in large volumes, ie the M cars and larger motored versions of every other platform.

RWD dynamics aren't all about burnouts, simple things like steering feel, lack of understeer and braking control are greatly benefited by rwd and just don't feel the same in a car with 65% or more of the weight over the front and power and steering going through the front wheels.

I have a three mile commute, so something that requires very little charging is appealing. I sold my M Coupe because it never saw coolant temp, much less oil temp on my commute. However I do make occasional road trips, so the range extender makes perfect sense and the driving dynamics of even a golf cart are more enjoyable than a Prius.

Remember, we're talking about a daily driver, not a sports car. My situation is likely very different than yours, so while I may like it, and you may hate it, neither side is necessarily more correct than the other.
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      07-23-2013, 01:30 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Again, it's about $6k over a Leaf when comparing a similar model. That's a good distance from $20k.

RWD dynamics aren't all about burnouts, simple things like steering feel, lack of understeer and braking control are greatly benefited by rwd and just don't feel the same in a car with 65% or more of the weight over the front and power and steering going through the wheel.

I have a three mile commute, so something that requires very little charging is appealing. I sold my M Coupe because it never saw coolant temp, much less oil temp on my commute. However I do make occasional road trips, so the range extender makes perfect sense and the driving dynamics of even a golf cart are more enjoyable than a Prius.

Remember, we're talking about a daily driver, not a sports car. My situation is likely very different than yours, so while I may like it, and you may hate it, neither side is necessarily more correct than the other.
Similar model, I like that. Helps with your argument doesn't it.

Doesn't change the fact the Leaf starts at $21k with tax credit.

http://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I have a three mile commute, so something that requires very little charging is appealing. I sold my M Coupe because it never saw coolant temp, much less oil temp on my commute. However I do make occasional road trips, so the range extender makes perfect sense and the driving dynamics of even a golf cart are more enjoyable than a Prius.
Haaa...road trips. How far you going and how many stops are you making? This thing is not made for road trips.

Also if you want to save the planet. Quit being lazy and use a bike for your 3 mile commute.
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      07-23-2013, 01:43 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Similar model, I like that. Helps with your argument doesn't it.

Doesn't change the fact the Leaf starts at $21k with tax credit.

http://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/



Haaa...road trips. How far you going and how many stops are you making? This thing is not made for road trips.

Also if you want to save the planet. Quit being lazy and use a bike for your 3 mile commute.
Okay, numbers nerd, then the i3 starts at $34k. Still not $20k of difference and that base Leaf has a much longer charge time, less range and may or may not have steel wheels, I frankly don't care. The Leaf that actually sells is $27,340 after the tax credit, so again, less than $7k.

I do ride a bike, thanks for bringing that up, I'm at about 4k miles this year and have driven roughly the same. I have a puppy that goes to "daycare" though and I need to use a car for that.

I drove a Smart For4 (terrible thing) from Frankfurt to Prague, so long drives in somewhat inappropriate cars aren't something I'm scared of. I drive to Austin from Dallas frequently, roughly the same drive I used to make from Laguna Beach to San Diego. It's right outside of the range of the i3, but with the range extender, it's no problem. Austin is littered with charging stations.

If my daily drivers consumes no gas, doesn't suffer from my short commute and looks like an i3 (which isn't a compliment), I have no problem parking a fun weekend car in the garage and not overly concerning myself with the gas it may burn on the weekends.
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      07-23-2013, 02:39 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
http://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/


And then there is the Prius, that I guarantee most tree huggers will still opt for instead of spending another $20k for a badge.
Maybe, but most people looking at buying an EV aren't really tree huggers. There certainly are some, but there are tree hugger BMW M5 owners too.

The driving experience of an EV is preferred by many that have driven them. Plus a lot of people don't want to continue to send their money overseas, some of which ends up in the hands of radical regimes that hate the West.
People like the idea of fueling their car with energy they capture from the sun on their roof and others just hate buying gas. There are a lot of reasons to want to drive electric, tree hugging included I guess.
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      07-23-2013, 02:41 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by tommolog View Post
The driving experience of an EV is preferred by many that have driven them. Plus a lot of people don't want to continue to send their money overseas, some of which ends up in the hands of radical regimes that hate the West.
Oh, like the Germans and Japanese?
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      07-23-2013, 02:41 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
Tesla S performance 87.5k
Metallic or multicoat 0.8k or 1.5k
all glass panoramic 1.5k
21" wheels 4.5k
perf pack 6.5k
tech package 3.8k
sound package 1k
twin chargers (to get max charge time) 1.5k

that is 107k to 108k right there. These are the ones that are currently EVERYWHERE in california. Add tax and that is close to 125k.
The tesla cost the same as a 520d in Norway, crazy!
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      07-23-2013, 02:42 PM   #44
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I know the temptation to compare the i3 to a LEAF is there because both cars are electric but they are vastly different vehicles. I don't see too many discussions comparing a 335i to a Camry or Altima. That's really what we are talking about here.
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