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      09-03-2013, 11:29 PM   #67
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The sills are as bad as the MBZ SLS.
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      09-03-2013, 11:40 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nice
the audi doesn't look good, but 700hp and 590 ft/lbs while getting 94mpg destroys the i8
Yup. That was my point.
Also someone said wait for the NSX... I totally agree.
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      09-04-2013, 01:23 AM   #69
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It just seems that for you guys the world is in b&w. No shades of gray whatsoever, let alone colors. Look at the comments. This thread has gone off topic btw. Audi? What Audi?!
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      09-04-2013, 03:09 AM   #70
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Why not just get a P1 or LaFerrari then?

When I saw Harry Metcalfe drive the i8 he looked underwhelmed. He looked a lot more happy in the Ghibli.

When I saw Jay Leno drive the P1 he looked he was high as a kite. The P1
looks amazing n black.

The i8 is nice..but.I rather open up my M car and see shit tons of carbon fibre
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      09-04-2013, 03:30 AM   #71
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Comparing i8 or i3 to Tesla S is just ridiculous. What they have in common is the eDrive. While in concepts they are completely different: one is a small city car, the other a 4-seat sports car, and the third is a full-size luxury sedan / hatchback that can even seat 7 people. Electric / plug-in hybrids are just like any other cars with ICE (petrol or diesel): coming in various shapes, catering different needs.

And just like in ICE case you have different performance & millage figures on EVs as well. Are we eg comparing a sub-compact 70hp city car to a 350hp luxury sedan just because eg. both use diesel engines? We don't. so, why then a comparison between differently styled i3, i8 and eg Tesla S.

Also, Tesla S went a different way: introducing a large heavy sedan, packed with tons of batteries (featuring superb millage) - and consequently high price. Comparing that to a much smaller & lighter i3 city car is ridiculous. Sure nobody will use i3 for long trips. Just like you don't go on a family trip using a MINI. i3 supposed to be a 2nd car, a city car. While i8 is a show-off halo sports car, which can also be used in city areas with congestion charges etc. due to its electric drive.

There are different marketing approaches, what to offer first. Be sure BMW will also offer a full-size eDrive 4dr sedan / fastback under BMW i badge. But first they set the anchors for the i sub-brand - with i3 (as a relatively affordable & practical premium city EV) on one pole, and i8 on the other (as a premium halo sports car for the sub-brand). With more mainstream EVs coming: incl. a sedan / fastback & even a crossover.

Tesla is still more or less "one product" company. Roadster is a joke, the only real product is Tesla S, and the upcoming crossover. And then? A city car? And then? Then the troubles starts, when you become a real automotive company - with larger portfolio, and you have to share parts to be cost effective & profitable - and consequently the engineering becomes more complex than in case with one or two cars in portfolio. And I guess they will be forced to cooperate more & more with strategic partners from the automotive industry etc.

Also with relatively low volume output the revenues are low. Therefore new capital will have to flow in to feed all the R&D, and production capacity expansions etc. - meaning new shares issued, new bank loans etc.

Also Tesla dealer network is small. Not to mention almost non-existing outside US. Building up an efficient dealer network is a costly & long process. Tesla sure works in US, but I'm not sure it will work outside US. Tesla isn't Apple though. C'mon even Lexus is struggling outside US, being completely anonymous in some EU markets etc. Not to mention Infiniti and Acura. People outside US are not really fond of newly established "instant premium" car brands.

Not to mention the competitors will start to roll out direct rival product to Tesla cars.

Sure Tesla is the first one offering a premium large electric sedan / fastback. And will probably be the first one offering an attractive electric crossover. But in the following years it will hardly be the only one. And the competitive advantage will melt down like a snowman on a Spring sunny day.

All that said about Tesla: hats down. Tesla S is one fine, even incredible vehicle. Especially for the 1st Mk and for a small automotive company. Elon Tusk is a genius but everything has its limits.

The one (bright) future I can see for Tesla is under Google's umbrella. Tesla as Google's automotive brand: EVs with auto pilots, packed with latest IT stuff to play with while in the car. Apple will issue its own iCar, I guess. Made in China, of course.
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      09-04-2013, 05:21 AM   #72
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I appreciate the design of this car for sure.

However as an enthusiast in the market for a performance vehicle in this price range I have to say, no, I'm not interested.

I simply don't like my performance cars to sound weak to put it bluntly. Half the sense of occasion driving a sports car is the sound it makes for me. I also don't feel the need to make an environmental statement either with such a showy car.
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      09-04-2013, 05:42 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
Scott, there was a lot of chatter about an M8 or M10/100 in celebration of the 100th birthday of BMW, the registration of the trademarks of the same name, a concept M8 and Dr Nitschke stating that if the project goes ahead it will have to be the best supercar on the market etc etc... Your resounding 'No' is not a surprise we know the i8 and M cars are opposite ends of the spectrum and that has been stated in interviews with Dr N before.

However is there actually a super car project at BMW?

(Loving the look of the i8 though, the interior is stunning, the whole thing is lovely.)
Maybe that's a "no" to the M8 with a electric engine and the v8.
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      09-04-2013, 05:47 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnI View Post
Comparing i8 or i3 to Tesla S is just ridiculous. What they have in common is the eDrive. While in concepts they are completely different: one is a small city car, the other a 4-seat sports car, and the third is a full-size luxury sedan / hatchback that can even seat 7 people. Electric / plug-in hybrids are just like any other cars with ICE (petrol or diesel): coming in various shapes, catering different needs.

And just like in ICE case you have different performance & millage figures on EVs as well. Are we eg comparing a sub-compact 70hp city car to a 350hp luxury sedan just because eg. both use diesel engines? We don't. so, why then a comparison between differently styled i3, i8 and eg Tesla S.

Also, Tesla S went a different way: introducing a large heavy sedan, packed with tons of batteries (featuring superb millage) - and consequently high price. Comparing that to a much smaller & lighter i3 city car is ridiculous. Sure nobody will use i3 for long trips. Just like you don't go on a family trip using a MINI. i3 supposed to be a 2nd car, a city car. While i8 is a show-off halo sports car, which can also be used in city areas with congestion charges etc. due to its electric drive.

There are different marketing approaches, what to offer first. Be sure BMW will also offer a full-size eDrive 4dr sedan / fastback under BMW i badge. But first they set the anchors for the i sub-brand - with i3 (as a relatively affordable & practical premium city EV) on one pole, and i8 on the other (as a premium halo sports car for the sub-brand). With more mainstream EVs coming: incl. a sedan / fastback & even a crossover.

Tesla is still more or less "one product" company. Roadster is a joke, the only real product is Tesla S, and the upcoming crossover. And then? A city car? And then? Then the troubles starts, when you become a real automotive company - with larger portfolio, and you have to share parts to be cost effective & profitable - and consequently the engineering becomes more complex than in case with one or two cars in portfolio. And I guess they will be forced to cooperate more & more with strategic partners from the automotive industry etc.

Also with relatively low volume output the revenues are low. Therefore new capital will have to flow in to feed all the R&D, and production capacity expansions etc. - meaning new shares issued, new bank loans etc.

Also Tesla dealer network is small. Not to mention almost non-existing outside US. Building up an efficient dealer network is a costly & long process. Tesla sure works in US, but I'm not sure it will work outside US. Tesla isn't Apple though. C'mon even Lexus is struggling outside US, being completely anonymous in some EU markets etc. Not to mention Infiniti and Acura. People outside US are not really fond of newly established "instant premium" car brands.

Not to mention the competitors will start to roll out direct rival product to Tesla cars.

Sure Tesla is the first one offering a premium large electric sedan / fastback. And will probably be the first one offering an attractive electric crossover. But in the following years it will hardly be the only one. And the competitive advantage will melt down like a snowman on a Spring sunny day.

All that said about Tesla: hats down. Tesla S is one fine, even incredible vehicle. Especially for the 1st Mk and for a small automotive company. Elon Tusk is a genius but everything has its limits.

The one (bright) future I can see for Tesla is under Google's umbrella. Tesla as Google's automotive brand: EVs with auto pilots, packed with latest IT stuff to play with while in the car. Apple will issue its own iCar, I guess. Made in China, of course.
If I am correct, Tesla "dealer network" is that you buy straight from the company/store.
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      09-04-2013, 05:55 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnI View Post
Comparing i8 or i3 to Tesla S is just ridiculous. What they have in common is the eDrive. While in concepts they are completely different: one is a small city car, the other a 4-seat sports car, and the third is a full-size luxury sedan / hatchback that can even seat 7 people. Electric / plug-in hybrids are just like any other cars with ICE (petrol or diesel): coming in various shapes, catering different needs.

And just like in ICE case you have different performance & millage figures on EVs as well. Are we eg comparing a sub-compact 70hp city car to a 350hp luxury sedan just because eg. both use diesel engines? We don't. so, why then a comparison between differently styled i3, i8 and eg Tesla S.

Also, Tesla S went a different way: introducing a large heavy sedan, packed with tons of batteries (featuring superb millage) - and consequently high price. Comparing that to a much smaller & lighter i3 city car is ridiculous. Sure nobody will use i3 for long trips. Just like you don't go on a family trip using a MINI. i3 supposed to be a 2nd car, a city car. While i8 is a show-off halo sports car, which can also be used in city areas with congestion charges etc. due to its electric drive.

There are different marketing approaches, what to offer first. Be sure BMW will also offer a full-size eDrive 4dr sedan / fastback under BMW i badge. But first they set the anchors for the i sub-brand - with i3 (as a relatively affordable & practical premium city EV) on one pole, and i8 on the other (as a premium halo sports car for the sub-brand). With more mainstream EVs coming: incl. a sedan / fastback & even a crossover.

Tesla is still more or less "one product" company. Roadster is a joke, the only real product is Tesla S, and the upcoming crossover. And then? A city car? And then? Then the troubles starts, when you become a real automotive company - with larger portfolio, and you have to share parts to be cost effective & profitable - and consequently the engineering becomes more complex than in case with one or two cars in portfolio. And I guess they will be forced to cooperate more & more with strategic partners from the automotive industry etc.

Also with relatively low volume output the revenues are low. Therefore new capital will have to flow in to feed all the R&D, and production capacity expansions etc. - meaning new shares issued, new bank loans etc.

Also Tesla dealer network is small. Not to mention almost non-existing outside US. Building up an efficient dealer network is a costly & long process. Tesla sure works in US, but I'm not sure it will work outside US. Tesla isn't Apple though. C'mon even Lexus is struggling outside US, being completely anonymous in some EU markets etc. Not to mention Infiniti and Acura. People outside US are not really fond of newly established "instant premium" car brands.

Not to mention the competitors will start to roll out direct rival product to Tesla cars.

Sure Tesla is the first one offering a premium large electric sedan / fastback. And will probably be the first one offering an attractive electric crossover. But in the following years it will hardly be the only one. And the competitive advantage will melt down like a snowman on a Spring sunny day.

All that said about Tesla: hats down. Tesla S is one fine, even incredible vehicle. Especially for the 1st Mk and for a small automotive company. Elon Tusk is a genius but everything has its limits.

The one (bright) future I can see for Tesla is under Google's umbrella. Tesla as Google's automotive brand: EVs with auto pilots, packed with latest IT stuff to play with while in the car. Apple will issue its own iCar, I guess. Made in China, of course.
Good points, I'd add to your points about Tesla outside of the US by saying that they are nowhere near as cheap to buy over here. In the US they seem to be a bit of a performance bargain, but over here it's (expected) to be 750Li money, more expensive than an M5, and it's not much less than buying an M3 and an i3.

When BMW brings it's sights to bear on the Model S with the 'i5' or whatever it will be called, then that's when it will get interesting.
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      09-04-2013, 06:18 AM   #76
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Hmm. For me, the interior seems pretty tame for the car of the future. I suppose I was expecting more. Maybe because we've seen these concept photos for years now the surprise is lost? Even the 4 series coupe interior looked better.
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      09-04-2013, 11:22 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
Maybe that's a "no" to the M8 with a electric engine and the v8.
Maybe... Scott has gone strangely quiet today :-)


On an aside, as for the Audi Quattro, whilst it looks nice and the original was stunning, the stats don't add up. It must be one hefty porker to manage the numbers it gets in the Autocar and Autoexpress previews, especially when the Alpina B3 is nearly as fast but has 300bhp less.

Last edited by clbmw; 09-04-2013 at 11:27 AM.
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      09-04-2013, 12:29 PM   #78
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Another benchmark from BMW
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      09-04-2013, 02:03 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
If I am correct, Tesla "dealer network" is that you buy straight from the company/store.
Not really. They have some stores & service centers: http://www.teslamotors.com/findus/service

And with more cars sold, more service centers & "Tesla Rangers" will be needed = higher costs etc. Automotive business isn't as easy to run as Mr Musk thinks it is.

Also, as said by someone (was it here or was it somewhere else?): BMW has its Financial Services branch present worldwide & can easily offer attractive lease rates & financing programs. Tesla has external financing partners (eg. USBank & Wells Fargo in US - but what about elsewhere in the world???).

Tesla's US success will not necessary be repeated in other markets outside US. As said by Matski: in other markets Tesla S is a bloody expensive buy.

I'm not buying all the Tesla hype entirely. There are many uncovered spots & unanswered questions left.

Last edited by EnI; 09-04-2013 at 02:20 PM.
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      09-04-2013, 02:32 PM   #80
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I don't like it, imho too complicated without being cool.we need an r8 killer not this experiment.
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      09-04-2013, 02:39 PM   #81
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You're joking, right?
I would definitely pick a Quattro successor over the i8, the first one is a legend!
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      09-05-2013, 12:11 AM   #82
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Rear 2/3s looks like a Nissan Altima coupe.
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      09-07-2013, 11:41 AM   #83
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I have been a bit disappointed with BMW as of lately for screwing up the 5 series first and then the 3 series. Then offering a watered down, over priced 4 series.

Only hope left is if M4/M3 will redeem the brand some how.

However, with i8 I like the concept and it looks good. I like it because it is innovative and futuristic. Yet, the looks from front end has a bit of what reminds you of classic BMW looks.

My main complaints are that it is over priced. It would be far greater success for under $100K then near $125K. Second, the tires are way too skinny for 20 inch. Third, the range should have been a bit more.


I am hoping that we will get an i8 M with M4 engine paried up with the electric batteries to the tune of 575 hp with proper performance tires.
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      09-09-2013, 04:54 PM   #84
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BMW, stop creating these niche products and start competing with rivals!!

It's time for a supercar now..
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      09-09-2013, 05:00 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
I have been a bit disappointed with BMW as of lately for screwing up the 5 series first and then the 3 series. Then offering a watered down, over priced 4 series.

Only hope left is if M4/M3 will redeem the brand some how.

However, with i8 I like the concept and it looks good. I like it because it is innovative and futuristic. Yet, the looks from front end has a bit of what reminds you of classic BMW looks.

My main complaints are that it is over priced. It would be far greater success for under $100K then near $125K. Second, the tires are way too skinny for 20 inch. Third, the range should have been a bit more.


I am hoping that we will get an i8 M with M4 engine paried up with the electric batteries to the tune of 575 hp with proper performance tires.
Haha, how did BMW screw up the 3 and 5 series?

I'm quite confident that the M3/M4 will become the new benchmark by some margin and will be a major sales success.

With the i8, even though an M version is not an option right now, I hope BMW will consider it for the LCI because of decreased interest in the product due to possibly poor sales volumes associated with that insane price and the fact people will not accept their new ideas of green performance (minus the performance that we want)
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      09-11-2013, 08:15 PM   #86
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LOL......if you have to ask that question then you will not get it. But I will make an attempt anyways.


Anybody that has driven a F10 vs E60 back to back can tell you that the E60 was more of a drivers car. The E39 5 series was also a fantastic drivers car. The new F10 feels like a luxury boat that was designed to bring in Lexus, Audi and MB buyers in Chinese home market. The car has a steering feel that is terrible. Funny thing is the brand new F10 lost to all the cars in a head to head comparison when it first came out that an a E60 had beat just few months ago in a head to head comparison. How do you go from a comparo winning car to one that comes in last.

Ditto goes for the new F30 vs E90/E46 the F30 was deisgned to be softer core with lack of steering feel and overall softer demeanor with cheaper harder interior plastics. The car was once again designed to target Lexus, Audi, and MB customers in Chinese market as they prefer softer core, larger sized cars. They prefer to be driven then drive.

So with stringent fuel laws and enticing Chinese market the BMW motto went from "Driving Dynamics" to "Efficient Dynamics".

Ok, I am going to stop explaining because I just realized that you will not get it as you are an owner of F30. The BMW sure knew what they were doing target locked on and mission accomplished.

I don't know what I am saying before the F30 crowds goes crazy again and attacks me. Hey F30 is the best sports sedan BMW has or ever could make.


By the way I am not against i8 and like the concept. I just don't care for the price or the lack of angel eyes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Anodite10 View Post
Haha, how did BMW screw up the 3 and 5 series?

I'm quite confident that the M3/M4 will become the new benchmark by some margin and will be a major sales success.

With the i8, even though an M version is not an option right now, I hope BMW will consider it for the LCI because of decreased interest in the product due to possibly poor sales volumes associated with that insane price and the fact people will not accept their new ideas of green performance (minus the performance that we want)
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Last edited by Kayani_1; 09-11-2013 at 08:25 PM.
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      09-13-2013, 12:42 PM   #87
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Quote:
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LOL......if you have to ask that question then you will not get it. But I will make an attempt anyways.


Anybody that has driven a F10 vs E60 back to back can tell you that the E60 was more of a drivers car. The E39 5 series was also a fantastic drivers car. The new F10 feels like a luxury boat that was designed to bring in Lexus, Audi and MB buyers in Chinese home market. The car has a steering feel that is terrible. Funny thing is the brand new F10 lost to all the cars in a head to head comparison when it first came out that an a E60 had beat just few months ago in a head to head comparison. How do you go from a comparo winning car to one that comes in last.

Ditto goes for the new F30 vs E90/E46 the F30 was deisgned to be softer core with lack of steering feel and overall softer demeanor with cheaper harder interior plastics. The car was once again designed to target Lexus, Audi, and MB customers in Chinese market as they prefer softer core, larger sized cars. They prefer to be driven then drive.

So with stringent fuel laws and enticing Chinese market the BMW motto went from "Driving Dynamics" to "Efficient Dynamics".

Ok, I am going to stop explaining because I just realized that you will not get it as you are an owner of F30. The BMW sure knew what they were doing target locked on and mission accomplished.

I don't know what I am saying before the F30 crowds goes crazy again and attacks me. Hey F30 is the best sports sedan BMW has or ever could make.


By the way I am not against i8 and like the concept. I just don't care for the price or the lack of angel eyes.
LOL I hear what you're saying about the F10 and F30 and understand some of your frustrations, but in my situation, if you compare the E90 320i to the F30 320i, it is an improvement of gargantuan proportions! Maybe not so much with the 335i. The performance of E90 320i was pretty much non-existent (it was seriously that bad) and to me, the F30 trumps it in every single way. Handling included. It's true that it is a little softer than my E90 but that's mostly because I had the M-sport suspension as opposed to having the standard one now.

About the efficient dynamics part, I think that it's great how much efficiency has increased while increasing performance levels too. Again, this largely applies to my E90 and F30. I'm getting MUCH better fuel efficiency in my F30 than the E90. It's astounding.

Okay I'll stop trying to sell the F30 to you now hahahaha
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      09-13-2013, 11:40 PM   #88
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While F30 is not for me I can understand why and how it would make more sense for you. I have enjoyed my E92 335i for more then 4 years now and plan on keeping it for more years.

Next car for me might not be a BMW. Their paradigm of thinking is shifting and it is something that is not exciting me at the moment. I am not against efficiency but I do not like that it is coming at the ever increasing sacrifice of Driving dynamics.


Anyways enjoy your F30




Quote:
Originally Posted by Anodite10 View Post
LOL I hear what you're saying about the F10 and F30 and understand some of your frustrations, but in my situation, if you compare the E90 320i to the F30 320i, it is an improvement of gargantuan proportions! Maybe not so much with the 335i. The performance of E90 320i was pretty much non-existent (it was seriously that bad) and to me, the F30 trumps it in every single way. Handling included. It's true that it is a little softer than my E90 but that's mostly because I had the M-sport suspension as opposed to having the standard one now.

About the efficient dynamics part, I think that it's great how much efficiency has increased while increasing performance levels too. Again, this largely applies to my E90 and F30. I'm getting MUCH better fuel efficiency in my F30 than the E90. It's astounding.

Okay I'll stop trying to sell the F30 to you now hahahaha
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nickname"BAD 3",MHD E85 tune,RennArt catback non-resonated exhaust,VRSF Downpipes, VRSF 7"FMIC,VRSF stock side inlets,SSQV BOV,ECS CP,M-performance alcantara steering,retrofit M3 paddle shifters,Alpina B3 tranny flash,AFE power seal CAI,LED angels,ST Coilovers,M3 upper/lower control arms,E93 M3 Front Swaybar ,235/35/19x9 ,275/30/19x9.5. M sport bumpers, CF diffuser. When in doubt..flat out.
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