[mindmachine]

Originally Posted by Kevin_Genius@BMWMtLaurel

To clear this up once and for all: there is no difference in gas tank size from the US to the EU market!

For Europe, you can enable the REX once the charge is below 75%. Euro i3's also have sunroofs available as a option

You are wrong, the US tank is 7 liters and the EU tank is 9 liters, where have you been.

[-c-]

Ok here's for the sake of me and others I went to REALOEM.com and looked up the part numbers for the fuel tank for both the euro Rex and USA Rex.

My faith in journalism is also on edge as it has been for a decade now.

So now armed with this new information I can say with confidence that the euro and American I3 Rex use the same tank.

Part number for the euro tank is
Euro 16117391827
USA 16117391827

I invite anyone to go to REALOEM.com and look it up for their own.

So the "imperial gallon" vs "US gallon" is correct.

Just thought with hard numbers it will clear this up.

Sorry for the confusion.

Just another example of you can't trust everything you read on the net. :/

[jadnashuanh]

Supposedly, the USA training materials would be written for their USA clients, and it does say 1.9g. No idea how often the database at realoem.com gets updated, but the decision to do this came late in the game for the USA market, that resource may no longer be correct - they had planned and hoped to not have a unique part for the USA.

In the USA, has anyone put more than 1.9g into their REx's gas tank, especially if they ran it nearly dry?

[Kevin_Genius@BMWMtLaurel]

Originally Posted by mindmachine

You are wrong, the US tank is 7 liters and the EU tank is 9 liters, where have you been.

more like where has my training material been.....


just confirmed with my UK, Scotland, and Germany counterparts that the EU REX gas tank is 1.979 Imperial Gallons which is 9 liters and 2.376 US Gallons


I apoligize, all of my training told me that they were the same tank size even after I had asked specifically on multiple occasions

[GeorgeJ.]

Originally Posted by Kevin_Genius@BMWMtLaurel

more like where has my training material been.....


just confirmed with my UK, Scotland, and Germany counterparts that the EU REX gas tank is 1.979 Imperial Gallons which is 9 liters and 2.376 US Gallons


I apoligize, all of my training told me that they were the same tank size even after I had asked specifically on multiple occasions

BMW NA's bad. As I said before they should have made a huge effort to train all of their representatives on the details and how these translate into novel ways of dealing with transportation. It should not fall on the guys in the field to figure things out for themselves let alone getting stonewalled. Thanks for delving further.

[Kevin_Genius@BMWMtLaurel]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJ.

BMW NA's bad. As I said before they should have made a huge effort to train all of their representatives on the details and how these translate into novel ways of dealing with transportation. It should not fall on the guys in the field to figure things out for themselves let alone getting stonewalled. Thanks for delving further.

No problem!

I asked my POC for BMW of NA to ask the engineers why the feature to manually engage the REX was omitted from the US market, should have a response from them relatively soon (1-3 weeks). I'll let you know what they say

[ReturnZero]

Any idea how hard that tank is to access? Wonder if you can just order an EU tank and put it in?

[GeorgeJ.]

Originally Posted by ReturnZero

Any idea how hard that tank is to access? Wonder if you can just order an EU tank and put it in?

My guess is that both aspects above are going to be a real challenge to deal with . The techies will certainly weigh in though the rex initiation was certainly a function of their CAFE negotiation. The matter of swapping the tank probably would not be all that challenging but getting the system to "recognize" it correctly is a whole different matter. If it was easy I would buy (lease) one and make the change, that said I am not going to hold my breath.

[jadnashuanh]

Have to agree, while you'd get the extra range if you had a bigger tank, unless the car was programmed to know you had a bigger tank, the range estimates would stay as if it were the smaller one.

Someone indicated they planned to add an auxiliary tank...IMHO, a very unsafe situation, and since the REx's fuel system is pressurized, it could be a much bigger challenge than they think!

[ReturnZero]

Yeah, I can see that being an issue. I wonder if changing the VO of the car using ENET would be enough? Or some other coding change, which is pretty easy compared to the work of swapping the tank itself.

[Kevin_Genius@BMWMtLaurel]

Would probably need the tank and associated floats and pumps for it as well. I'm sure it's just programming at that point

[-c-]

You would also have to get an outside importer of the part as the dealers are not allowed to import any part to the u.s if it's a euro part. So a big premium would be attached to it. With the amount of money attached to converting it for a non life changing amount of range I'd just pull over and fill it up.

I mean for less than 2 gallons of gas takes less than 2 minutes anyhow.

[jadnashuanh]

Which version of the i3 you choose, if you do at all, is a tradeoff of features and capabilities verses impediments. Going into the purchase blindly is likely to produce dissatisfaction. They each have their good points, but each buyer needs to understand what it is they are buying - both of them are somewhat different than most (all?) cars before them. It doesn't help if the dealer gives you incorrect information.

Facts:
- the BEV gets a combined EPA rating of 124mpge, the REx, 117mpge
- if you run out of juice on the BEV, it's tow time or someone with a portable generator and a long wait to get going again.
- if you run out of juice and fuel on the REx, you probably can get going if someone brings you some fuel.
- the BEV is faster because it's not carrying around that extra weight all of the time and slightly better at miles/kw
- the REx will go further before you reach the above condition than the BEV
- the REx will not go further than the BEV on battery alone given the same circumstances - the REx version is heavier, and weight takes power to move around. It has wider tires which are slightly greater in drag, but some BEV's have the same ones, depends on options.
- if your route takes you up a long grade and you're batteries are low enough to turn on the REx, you might end up in a degraded, limited power use mode, but as long as you have fuel, you can keep going.
- same as above, if you reach that critical point on the batteries of your BEV, you'll experience the same issue, but not have a fall-back since you don't have the on-board REx to provide some amps.

I'm sure people could add more to this, but I think I've covered the main differences and benefits of one verses the other. To be happy long-term with an i3, you need to start out with a proper understanding of that they are, and not how you could change them into something you want! With the batteries down low, and the REx on, refilling regularly, you're getting about 39mpg based on the EPA testing...not bad in today's scheme of things, but not great, or about $0.10/mile in the USA at today's gasoline prices - easily twice what the cost is when running on electricity in most places.

Use it as a mega city car, and you should be happy with either version. Try to make it emulate your ICE, and you'll be disappointed. Use it with those known limitations, and you may get along fine. No car is designed to be great at everything...the i3 isn't a great vacation car unless you pack really light or only have one or two people, as most vacations have some distance included and spur of the moment decisions - with either version, you're tied to the nearest EVSE if you want to maintain any flexibility, something very different than when using an ICE.

[JasH]

You forgot one of the biggest differences: tax

At least in the UK. The BEV is far more tax effective as a company car.

[jadnashuanh]

Originally Posted by JasH

You forgot one of the biggest differences: tax

At least in the UK. The BEV is far more tax effective as a company car.

That's a nice item, but not a big deal in the USA. We have a federal tax credit for buying an i3, and some states and even some counties add their own, but that varies considerable from nothing (where I live) to nearly another $5K or so credit.

Because EV's don't directly contribute to the maintenance of the roads since that is tied into the taxes on the fuel, there has been talk about charging EV's, and maybe all vehicles, by the miles driven. I can see that as being really messy, at least on the state side (maybe not nationally), since a good portion of people travel in more than one state, and each one would want their share!

Anyway, using a vehicle for business has a lot of fine print, and you need to understand it to get maximum advantage and that changes a lot by where you live.

[ultraturtle]

Originally Posted by Kevin_Genius@BMWMtLaurel

I asked my POC for BMW of NA to ask the engineers why the feature to manually engage the REX was omitted from the US market, should have a response from them relatively soon (1-3 weeks). I'll let you know what they say

From comment 63 of this document State of California AIR RESOURCES BOARD FINAL STATEMENT OF REASONS FOR RULEMAKING

ARB believes that the BEVx is a relatively high-electric range BEV to which an
APU is added. If the BEVx category were modified to (a) reduce the minimum
electric range, (b) remove limitations on gasoline APU range, and (c) allow
unrestricted use of the gasoline APU, these vehicles would no longer have any
features to distinguish them from conventional PHEVs. The objective of the
BEVx is not to develop a PHEV with universal appeal, but rather, to expand the
market for BEVs by adding an option for a “backup” APU and enable a class of
near-ZEVs that achieve greater than 90 percent zero-emissions VMT.

However, Resolution 12-11 includes direction for staff to return to the Board with
in-use data for BEVxs and PHEVs and, if warranted, proposed changes to the
regulation. Researchers will be modeling and studying BEVx driver behavior in
the coming years to assess the electric range fraction achievable with BEVxs.

[ReturnZero]

Dude. WTF California. Ruining it for the rest of us.

[jadnashuanh]

Originally Posted by ReturnZero

Dude. WTF California. Ruining it for the rest of us.

This is not the first time...many things started in CA end up affecting the rest of the USA FBOW. With about 10% of the population and a lot of money, it's a tough group to ignore.

[Kevin_Genius@BMWMtLaurel]

sometimes I really do wish it would just fall into the Pacific.....

[ultraturtle]

A bit of perspective for a moment.

BMW worked with the state of California to develop and refine the BEVx category so that the i3 would qualify for ZEV credits, allowing BMW to sell a great deal of high profit margin 5, 6, 7, and M series gas hogs in the state. Nobody can convince me that the billions of dollars BMW invested in a completely new way of manufacturing a completely different kind of automobile can be solely justified by selling the i3 for a paultry $41,350.

The ground-up EV design, incredibly high tech carbon fiber frame, aluminum drive module, industry leading battery and thermal management technology, and advanced electronics cost BMW a huge chunk of cash, yet they must still compete in the marketplace with modifications of existing steel framed ICE platforms like the Nissan LEAF ($29,010) and Chevy Volt ($34,170).

There is little doubt in my mind that the reason for the i3's startling low price is that it is being heavily subsidized by the sales of those high profit vehicles, sales that would only be possible with the i3 REx complying with CARB's idiotic requirements, thereby bumping up ZEV credits.

[JasH]

Ultraturtle, I agree completely.

And this is even more true of the i8. There is no way it is profitable on a stand alone basis.

BMW are clearly playing the long game....to our benefit (i car buyers).