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      08-04-2015, 11:07 PM   #1
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i3 US sales roller-coaster continues

July i3 sales were up to 935 cars sold, but the monthly sales picture for 2015 is resembling a roller coaster ride:
670 (Jan), 1089 (Feb), 922, 406, 818, 551, 935 (July)

At least dealer inventory is up to 2,500 units, after however in mid 1.5K levels for the past few months:
http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

So what's the story with inconsistent i3 sales in the US?
Supply constraints?

a
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      08-04-2015, 11:18 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
July i3 sales were up to 935 cars sold, but the monthly sales picture for 2015 is resembling a roller coaster ride:
670 (Jan), 1089 (Feb), 922, 406, 818, 551, 935 (July)

At least dealer inventory is up to 2,500 units, after however in mid 1.5K levels for the past few months:
http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

So what's the story with inconsistent i3 sales in the US?
Supply constraints?

a
Graph it against gasoline prices. Specifically California gasoline prices (which are very high right now). Maybe that will help give some rationality to this.
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      08-05-2015, 03:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer View Post
Graph it against gasoline prices. Specifically California gasoline prices (which are very high right now). Maybe that will help give some rationality to this.
Gas prices haven't fluctuated THAT much this year, definitely not enough to explain 2x monthly swings in i3 sales for the past 4 months.

And yes, Cali has the most expensive gas prices. That's the tax (price) you pay for living in an sporadically irrigated desert (sorry, I meant socialist paradise ;-).

a
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      08-05-2015, 05:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
July i3 sales were up to 935 cars sold, but the monthly sales picture for 2015 is resembling a roller coaster ride:
670 (Jan), 1089 (Feb), 922, 406, 818, 551, 935 (July)

At least dealer inventory is up to 2,500 units, after however in mid 1.5K levels for the past few months:
http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

So what's the story with inconsistent i3 sales in the US?
Supply constraints?

a
I think July sales are probably from the strong incentives to clean the left over 2014 stock. That's how I got stuck with one!
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      08-05-2015, 08:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
Gas prices haven't fluctuated THAT much this year, definitely not enough to explain 2x monthly swings in i3 sales for the past 4 months.

And yes, Cali has the most expensive gas prices. That's the tax (price) you pay for living in an sporadically irrigated desert (sorry, I meant socialist paradise ;-).

a
Three months ago premium gas in the L.A. area was $2.90. Three weeks ago it reached its peak and was $4.60. So, sorry, I disagree with you since I live here.
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      08-05-2015, 09:07 PM   #6
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Their should be more tax on gas.

An i3 or any battery car should be taxed on distance traveled for using the roads. Their should be no subsidised free ride for anyone. Tax is going to happen and I give it 5 years.
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      08-06-2015, 07:56 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
Their should be more tax on gas.

An i3 or any battery car should be taxed on distance traveled for using the roads. Their should be no subsidised free ride for anyone. Tax is going to happen and I give it 5 years.
I believe Washington state is trying out a road use tax by the mile. This may replace or supplement gas tax for road construction, etc.

But as social policy I strongly believe that gasoline should be taxed heavily while alternative energy sources should be subsidized until they catch on and things even out. Even at that point we should have disincentives for gasoline usage for both environmental and political reasons.
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      08-06-2015, 10:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer View Post
Three months ago premium gas in the L.A. area was $2.90. Three weeks ago it reached its peak and was $4.60. So, sorry, I disagree with you since I live here.
Yup, and this may be the reason why I go pick up an i3 soon.
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      08-06-2015, 01:30 PM   #9
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Yup, and this may be the reason why I go pick up an i3 soon.
Funny that people on the Atlantic Seaboard seem to know more about our gas prices than we do.
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      08-06-2015, 01:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer View Post
Funny that people on the Atlantic Seaboard seem to know more about our gas prices than we do.
Hey now, I'm on the Atlantic seaboard (kind of) and do visit the socialist paradise regularly! I have family out there. I used to love driving from Santa Monica to Malibu, enjoy PCH on a nice day etc. Well used to, don't know about past few years.

And I love parking in LA traffic. It gives me a chance to catch up on all my communist and socialist reading list...

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      08-11-2015, 01:31 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
So what's the story with inconsistent i3 sales in the US?
Supply constraints?
Seems more like demand constraints if there are still 2014 models hanging around needing to be hugely incentivized

A supply constrained car would be a GT4, where people are struggling to get allocations and there is no incentive or discount of any sort

Personally, I think if the i3 was closer to a Tesla model S in terms of performance and range as opposed to Nissan Leaf it would be selling a lot more.
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      08-11-2015, 03:37 PM   #12
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Depending on who did the testing, the Nissan LEaf's 0-60mph time is just about 10-seconds. An i3 BEV is 7-seconds, and some have gotten better times (Edmunds got 6.6-seconds). THat's 30%, and significant. Yes, I know it is not as fast as a Tesla Model S(x), but then again, it costs a lot less, too. It got through the 1/4-mile almost 3-seconds faster and almost 10mph quicker at the end, too...certainly not supercar times, but it's no slouch. In the stoplight race, you will not be disappointed in the i3, especially in comparison to a Leaf!
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      08-12-2015, 06:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Seems more like demand constraints if there are still 2014 models hanging around needing to be hugely incentivized

A supply constrained car would be a GT4, where people are struggling to get allocations and there is no incentive or discount of any sort
i3's, i8's, and M3/4's rely on a lot of CF components (i's way more than M's), and there have been multiple disruptions in BMW's CF supply chain. There was a time you couldn't build M's with CF roofs over the winter due to CF shortage.

i8's production is definitely supply limited, with linear monthly sales trajectory and egregious MSRP mark-ups as witness for demand exceeding supply by a good margin.

i3's, on the other hand, don't seem to be suffering from excessive demand. But if there was a CF shortage, it would be logical for BMW to prioritize CF availability in favor of i8's and M-cars, vs. i3's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Personally, I think if the i3 was closer to a Tesla model S in terms of performance and range as opposed to Nissan Leaf it would be selling a lot more.
Sorry, i3 is nowhere near Tesla in either performance, styling elegance, or range.
Tesla is on another level altogether. Unfortunately, that applies to price as well.

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      08-12-2015, 06:38 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Seems more like demand constraints if there are still 2014 models hanging around needing to be hugely incentivized

A supply constrained car would be a GT4, where people are struggling to get allocations and there is no incentive or discount of any sort
i3's, i8's, and M3/4's rely on a lot of CF components (i's way more than M's), and there have been multiple disruptions in BMW's CF supply chain. There was a time you couldn't build M's with CF roofs over the winter due to CF shortage.

i8's production is definitely supply limited, with linear monthly sales trajectory and egregious MSRP mark-ups as witness for demand exceeding supply by a good margin.

i3's, on the other hand, don't seem to be suffering from excessive demand. But if there was a CF shortage, it would be logical for BMW to prioritize CF availability in favor of i8's and M-cars, vs. i3's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Personally, I think if the i3 was closer to a Tesla model S in terms of performance and range as opposed to Nissan Leaf it would be selling a lot more.
Sorry, i3 is nowhere near Tesla in either performance, styling elegance, or range.
Tesla is on another level altogether. Unfortunately, that applies to price as well.

a
He said "if" the i3 was more like tesla not that it is like tesla. :/

I do however like the i3 interior more than the Tesla the interior of the tesla is dated and the giant screen is so just not right. Let's just slap a giant rectangle amongst all the swoopy shapes. Never liked it.
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      08-12-2015, 07:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Personally, I think if the i3 was closer to a Tesla model S in terms of performance and range as opposed to Nissan Leaf it would be selling a lot more.
Since we're wishing for things, I wish the i8 was closer to the Tesla P85D in terms of performance too
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      08-12-2015, 08:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -c- View Post
He said "if" the i3 was more like tesla not that it is like tesla. :/
Fair clarification.
From my perspective, i3's performance can use a kick in the butt, and the same goes for handling. Though most of the people in the market for an electric car would probably disagree. At least BMW seams to be convinced that they would..

Quote:
Originally Posted by -c- View Post
I do however like the i3 interior more than the Tesla the interior of the tesla is dated and the giant screen is so just not right. Let's just slap a giant rectangle amongst all the swoopy shapes. Never liked it.
Agree on the weirdness of a 17" display as a center console.
Not sure I would agree that i3's interior is all THAT great.
I did get used to the two LCDs very quickly: one in place of instrument cluster, and another where Nav screen usually goes in BMWs. I do like the traditional integrated instrument cluster a bit more, but can live with an LCD screen in its place. It's the rest of the interior, including the (needlessly) exotically recycled materials and reflective swimming pool of a dash board, that could use some improvement.

Alas, BMW seams to be convinced that i3 buyers are all tree huggers who will settle for Geo Metro handling with a BMW badge.
Hopefully, they will learn better by the time my i3 lease ends ...

a
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      08-12-2015, 11:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev
Quote:
Originally Posted by -c- View Post
He said "if" the i3 was more like tesla not that it is like tesla. :/
Fair clarification.
From my perspective, i3's performance can use a kick in the butt, and the same goes for handling. Though most of the people in the market for an electric car would probably disagree. At least BMW seams to be convinced that they would..

Quote:
Originally Posted by -c- View Post
I do however like the i3 interior more than the Tesla the interior of the tesla is dated and the giant screen is so just not right. Let's just slap a giant rectangle amongst all the swoopy shapes. Never liked it.
Agree on the weirdness of a 17" display as a center console.
Not sure I would agree that i3's interior is all THAT great.
I did get used to the two LCDs very quickly: one in place of instrument cluster, and another where Nav screen usually goes in BMWs. I do like the traditional integrated instrument cluster a bit more, but can live with an LCD screen in its place. It's the rest of the interior, including the (needlessly) exotically recycled materials and reflective swimming pool of a dash board, that could use some improvement.

Alas, BMW seams to be convinced that i3 buyers are all tree huggers who will settle for Geo Metro handling with a BMW badge.
Hopefully, they will learn better by the time my i3 lease ends ...

a
Lol true and you got to start somewhere.

As an automotive designer myself i do get sucked into the finally something different mantra.

It's hard to get something truly unique out in the market place as design panels and customer focus groups usually like familiar rather than radically different. But that's cool no harm in a classic well done IP.

It's the i3 truth in materials that I like. The recycled plant fiber looks like it, leather looks like leather and wool looks like wool. It's getting to be all that philosophy stuff we just dream about in the studio but never get to do

I think the i3 may become better with age. Like I said you have to start somewhere. . Tesla I think had to come up with a safe design that looked good and hit their market if they wanted a wide appeal but when your a startup you really don't want a love it or hate it design. BMW however went with an idea and for better or worse tried to create a new design statement that gets noticed. But they can afford to be risky. A startup company usually can not.

Besides people need to stop comparing the two as their completely different beasts, hell if you threw another 30 or 40 grand at the I3 God knows how good it could be. I bet it probably could have gone toe to toe with the tesla. Heck you have a carbon and aluminum body and frame so rust and corrosion won't be an issue and it's light. If it had a tesla proportion and mileage and Bmw suspension characteristics it may have it beat design taste aside. Plus the battery technology is better at least from what I hear.

But then it wouldn't be what it is. It's a city car, tesla is not. Like comparing the smart car to a C-class who would do that. Their electric and that's where their similarity ends.
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      08-13-2015, 03:21 PM   #18
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The next I-car is likely to be more of a Tesla range/type of vehicle...something you could expect to take on a longer journey with more storage space and creature comforts. But, rumors have it that we won't see it for sale until something like 2020 - they're still playing with ideas. In the interim, more hybrids with ever growing all-electric range in their 'conventional' line are already announced and influenced by the I-series motor, driveline, control, battery tech.
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      08-14-2015, 04:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
i3's, i8's, and M3/4's rely on a lot of CF components (i's way more than M's), and there have been multiple disruptions in BMW's CF supply chain. There was a time you couldn't build M's with CF roofs over the winter due to CF shortage.

i8's production is definitely supply limited, with linear monthly sales trajectory and egregious MSRP mark-ups as witness for demand exceeding supply by a good margin.

i3's, on the other hand, don't seem to be suffering from excessive demand. But if there was a CF shortage, it would be logical for BMW to prioritize CF availability in favor of i8's and M-cars, vs. i3's.



Sorry, i3 is nowhere near Tesla in either performance, styling elegance, or range.
Tesla is on another level altogether. Unfortunately, that applies to price as well.

a
I''m well aware of the CF shortages. I had to wait a while for my M3 for that reason

I wasn't suggesting i3 and i8 was at Tesla level. They should be though, in my opinion, if BMW wants customers to buy based on desiring the car, as opposed to just saving money.

If I can't get a cheapo lease on the i3, I might end up ordering a model X even if it is more expensive because it is actually a credible family hauler.. Now if there was an X5 BEV that did 240mile range that would be something.....

i8 is particularly a joke, in my opinion. $136k msrp is equivalent to a GT3 and more costly than a fully optioned P90D with "ludicrous" upgrade. Not really sure why anyone would get an i8 other than loving the styling. It is pretty embarrassing for a more expensive "halo" sports car to be trumped by a 7 seater family car...

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      08-14-2015, 06:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
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i8 is particularly a joke, in my opinion. $136k msrp is equivalent to a GT3 and more costly than a fully optioned P90D with "ludicrous" upgrade. Not really sure why anyone would get an i8 other than loving the styling. It is pretty embarrassing for a more expensive "halo" sports car to be trumped by a 7 seater family car...
You should drop by the i8 forum, read the responses to a number of just such posts to get an insight into why the i8 is such a unique and unmatched beast.

Spoiler: it is not the appearance. There are many owners who prefer it to their other much much higher performance cars (and I don't mean an M3 or M6).

That is assuming you are interested about the car, rather than just wanting to bad mouth it.
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      08-14-2015, 07:37 PM   #21
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Quote:
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I''m well aware of the CF shortages. I had to wait a while for my M3 for that reason

I wasn't suggesting i3 and i8 was at Tesla level. They should be though, in my opinion, if BMW wants customers to buy based on desiring the car, as opposed to just saving money.

If I can't get a cheapo lease on the i3, I might end up ordering a model X even if it is more expensive because it is actually a credible family hauler.. Now if there was an X5 BEV that did 240mile range that would be something.....

i8 is particularly a joke, in my opinion. $136k msrp is equivalent to a GT3 and more costly than a fully optioned P90D with "ludicrous" upgrade. Not really sure why anyone would get an i8 other than loving the styling. It is pretty embarrassing for a more expensive "halo" sports car to be trumped by a 7 seater family car...
So, you've driven one, nicknaz? Also, there are some people who can afford to buy and own many cars. The i8 is just one of them.

But I'm interested in your opinions about the driving qualities of the car, and I'm sure you have well thought out opinions about that. Please proceed nicknaz . . .
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      08-14-2015, 08:50 PM   #22
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If I can't get a cheapo lease on the i3, I might end up ordering a model X even if it is more expensive because it is actually a credible family hauler.. Now if there was an X5 BEV that did 240mile range that would be something......
Model S is an incredible family hauler.
If that's what you need: a 7-series class, size, and budget sedan that also hauls ass - by all means - grab one now. I know people who have S's, and every last one loves his.

i3 is a competent, budget-level (in many ways), short/mid-distance EV.
Arguably, the best commuter EV on the market.

It is not a mega-city car, at least not in the US where there are way not enough public L2 chargers, even in 'da City. Sooner or later BMW will figure that out as well

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
i8 is particularly a joke, in my opinion. $136k msrp is equivalent to a GT3 and more costly than a fully optioned P90D with "ludicrous" upgrade. Not really sure why anyone would get an i8 other than loving the styling. It is pretty embarrassing for a more expensive "halo" sports car to be trumped by a 7 seater family car...
i8 is a lovely fashion and lifestyle statement.

Clearly, an awful lot of folks are desperately eager to make that statement, thus the unholly premiums charged for the car.
The fact that so many (obviously not you, nor me ;-) are willing to pay-up to make such a statement and take the penalty of performance and practicality, says everything you need to know why this is an ingenious "halo" car.

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