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      05-03-2014, 12:02 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by ultraturtle View Post
Ok, but behavior is. Choosing to drive an i3 is more environmentally responsible behavior than choosing to drive any other 4 wheel vehicle currently available.
I hope you realize that you are still saying the same thing. Following your logic, not driving anything regardless of it's configuration, is even more responsible, so why not just stop driving altogether? It's the same thing as saying guns kill people when actually people kill people. Guns are neither responsible or irresponsible, so mandating that guns only carry 6 bullets vs. 12 makes no difference; it's the same flawed (liberal/progressive) logic.

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      05-05-2014, 05:27 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I hope you realize that you are still saying the same thing. Following your logic, not driving anything regardless of it's configuration, is even more responsible, so why not just stop driving altogether? It's the same thing as saying guns kill people when actually people kill people. Guns are neither responsible or irresponsible, so mandating that guns only carry 6 bullets vs. 12 makes no difference; it's the same flawed (liberal/progressive) logic.
So you are saying we all should crawl in a hole and die in order to save the planet.

Don't go to work, don't earn a living, don't eat since you now don't have any money, eventually you starve and die thus saving the planet for the animals.
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      05-05-2014, 06:39 PM   #25
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So you are saying we all should crawl in a hole and die in order to save the planet.

Don't go to work, don't earn a living, don't eat since you now don't have any money, eventually you starve and die thus saving the planet for the animals.
You know what he meant, and stop being so much the PITA! Air pollution in a city is a major issue in many parts of the world, and can be an issue in the USA as well. Have you ever been to China? You almost want to be carrying around an oxygen bottle...it's really nasty. IF you can replace some of those ICE vehicles with cleaner ones, it's a good thing. And, you don't have regular used oil to recycle or have to deal with antifreeze or other liquids associated with an ICE that can be considered hazardous waste. Most electric power plants in the USA aren't bad, and usually located a ways from major metropolitan areas. Coal-fired ones are probably the worst, and with the current trends, those may be seeing their last days (give them maybe 20-years or so, and in the USA, there won't be many IMHO).

Windmills, solar cells, solar mirror arrays, more hydro, and tapping into tidal means more and more of the electricity produced is cleaner, too. Depending on where you live, with some of the credits and the shrinking costs, you may be able to recharge your vehicle with no recurring out of pocket costs.

There will likely always be a place for an ICE vehicle and you have to start somewhere...BMW seems well-placed to maybe help swing the ignorance and misconceptions about what a plug-in electric can do, let alone a plug-in hybrid as in the i8. Both, at relatively affordable prices for a luxury vehicle.
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      05-05-2014, 09:17 PM   #26
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So you are saying we all should crawl in a hole and die in order to save the planet.

Don't go to work, don't earn a living, don't eat since you now don't have any money, eventually you starve and die thus saving the planet for the animals.
Now you have the end of the logical argument; congratulations, you figured it out. By all means (ANY means) save the planet!
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      05-05-2014, 09:28 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
You know what he meant, and stop being so much the PITA! Air pollution in a city is a major issue in many parts of the world, and can be an issue in the USA as well. Have you ever been to China? You almost want to be carrying around an oxygen bottle...it's really nasty. IF you can replace some of those ICE vehicles with cleaner ones, it's a good thing. And, you don't have regular used oil to recycle or have to deal with antifreeze or other liquids associated with an ICE that can be considered hazardous waste. Most electric power plants in the USA aren't bad, and usually located a ways from major metropolitan areas. Coal-fired ones are probably the worst, and with the current trends, those may be seeing their last days (give them maybe 20-years or so, and in the USA, there won't be many IMHO).

Windmills, solar cells, solar mirror arrays, more hydro, and tapping into tidal means more and more of the electricity produced is cleaner, too. Depending on where you live, with some of the credits and the shrinking costs, you may be able to recharge your vehicle with no recurring out of pocket costs.

There will likely always be a place for an ICE vehicle and you have to start somewhere...BMW seems well-placed to maybe help swing the ignorance and misconceptions about what a plug-in electric can do, let alone a plug-in hybrid as in the i8. Both, at relatively affordable prices for a luxury vehicle.

LOL, the i8 is affordable? Seriously? The thing is $140K. Let me just ask this, so if the whole concept here is to save the planet by helping "swing the ignorance and misconceptions", why then is a $35K Chevy Volt not the ideal car? 0 - 60 in 9 seconds (plenty fast for everyday use), can go 38 miles on a charge (about the average days use), and can serve as the single car for most families (they'll not need a pure ICE car for long trips), so consumption-wise it conserves resources (for all the other folks on the planet). Why do we need a super fast plug-in hybrid such as the i8 (that doesn't even have the same performance as a Corvette but at 3-times the price)? If the idea is to save the plant, why do we need such performance? Why is 0 - 60 in 9 seconds not adequate?

And if you live in a city, where the i3 is the ideal non-ICE car, why not just take public transportation and not even buy a car at all?

And you really need to look into the acreage-per-kilowatt thing...
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      05-05-2014, 10:32 PM   #28
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Compare the cost of the i8 to other exotic CFRP hybrids, and it's a bargain by a long shot. And, being a clean sheet and in mass production, will (and has, the entire first year's production has already been sold and you can't take delivery of one yet) sell more. So, somebody thinks they're affordable!

The i3 was designed as a city vehicle - small, quick, short turning circle, easy to park, and fun to drive. It was not designed to compete with the Volt, or the Tesla, or, pretty much most any other car out there. If you get it, you get it, if you don't, you don't. If it fits your budge and lifestyle, you'll appreciate it, if it doesn't, you won't...none of that makes it a bad car. That BMW has needed to boost production considerably to match demand with longer-lead-time production equipment orders on the books, too, seems to indicate they believe the demand is genuine and will continue.

The vast majority of the vehicle is either already made from recycled materials, sustainable materials, and can be recycled, and was made with considerations for how it was produced (like the CF production being near hydroelectric facilities rather than coal-fired power plants), where it could do its thing with less impact. By law, most vehicles and other products in Germany must contain a very considerable amount of recyclable materials, and instructions on how to do that to produce as close to virgin materials in that recycling process. IOW, they take the cradle to death of a product into account...something few places take into consideration to much of any degree.

If you want a Volt, and it meets your needs and desires, great - it has some redeeming features. Same is true with the Leaf or the Ford, or the other electric or plug-in hybrids out there. Choice is good for more than one reason, one of which is what appeals to one does not necessarily appeal to the next. What's affordable to one is unattainable for others, that doesn't mean they cannot appreciate quality when they see it.

For what the i3 is, it's priced accordingly. If it doesn't meet your needs or budget, only you can decide if it is worth the stretch to maybe acquire one. Few things in life are perfect, and except for maybe an identical twin, no two people are the same, so their desires and needs are unlikely to match.
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      05-05-2014, 10:50 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Now you have the end of the logical argument; congratulations, you figured it out. By all means (ANY means) save the planet!
A couple whiners post and a thread about tuning potential is completely HIGHJACKED. And yes, if the manufacturing and fundamentals of the i BMW's was widely adopted it would make a material difference in environmental and climatic issues and frankly a real part of my intrigue. I drove one and it was fun so performance is an important function.

Some smarter folks than I posted good posts about challenges associated with "improving performance" with the i3 and those were highly relevant and genuinely appreciated. I can imagine software "updates" that allow for broader control of the range extender engine to provide better trip planning and hopefully greater gas tank capacity to make it a travel viable option.

I really like the idea of a car like the i3 that is very small, nimble, and fun to race around the city in. I just want it to fit my broader need of having real travel functionality. Tweaks associated with that could make it more appealing.
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      05-06-2014, 05:01 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
Compare the cost of the i8 to other exotic CFRP hybrids, and it's a bargain by a long shot. And, being a clean sheet and in mass production, will (and has, the entire first year's production has already been sold and you can't take delivery of one yet) sell more. So, somebody thinks they're affordable!

The i3 was designed as a city vehicle - small, quick, short turning circle, easy to park, and fun to drive. It was not designed to compete with the Volt, or the Tesla, or, pretty much most any other car out there. If you get it, you get it, if you don't, you don't. If it fits your budge and lifestyle, you'll appreciate it, if it doesn't, you won't...none of that makes it a bad car. That BMW has needed to boost production considerably to match demand with longer-lead-time production equipment orders on the books, too, seems to indicate they believe the demand is genuine and will continue.

The vast majority of the vehicle is either already made from recycled materials, sustainable materials, and can be recycled, and was made with considerations for how it was produced (like the CF production being near hydroelectric facilities rather than coal-fired power plants), where it could do its thing with less impact. By law, most vehicles and other products in Germany must contain a very considerable amount of recyclable materials, and instructions on how to do that to produce as close to virgin materials in that recycling process. IOW, they take the cradle to death of a product into account...something few places take into consideration to much of any degree.

If you want a Volt, and it meets your needs and desires, great - it has some redeeming features. Same is true with the Leaf or the Ford, or the other electric or plug-in hybrids out there. Choice is good for more than one reason, one of which is what appeals to one does not necessarily appeal to the next. What's affordable to one is unattainable for others, that doesn't mean they cannot appreciate quality when they see it.

For what the i3 is, it's priced accordingly. If it doesn't meet your needs or budget, only you can decide if it is worth the stretch to maybe acquire one. Few things in life are perfect, and except for maybe an identical twin, no two people are the same, so their desires and needs are unlikely to match.
Fun to believe all that hype. I'm sure that the Seattle-based carbon fiber production facility was primarily selected by BMW based on cost of the material and not the plant's supposed source of electrical power. And environmentalists HATE hydroelectric power because it kills fish by damming up a river and affecting fish ability to freely spawn. And let's not delve into the environmental impact of digging up the various ores that supply the i3 battery raw materials, nor the whole issue of "conflict-free" minerals. It's a no-win situation my friend, somehow somewhere a person is going to take issue with the environmental impact of ...

All cars are built of sustainable (ah, the new environmental buzzword) materials by the way, it's just the way you decide to look at the cycle. Most materials are recyclable dependent upon the cost of recapture and reprocessing.
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      05-06-2014, 05:06 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by GeorgeJ. View Post
A couple whiners post and a thread about tuning potential is completely HIGHJACKED. And yes, if the manufacturing and fundamentals of the i BMW's was widely adopted it would make a material difference in environmental and climatic issues and frankly a real part of my intrigue. I drove one and it was fun so performance is an important function.

Some smarter folks than I posted good posts about challenges associated with "improving performance" with the i3 and those were highly relevant and genuinely appreciated. I can imagine software "updates" that allow for broader control of the range extender engine to provide better trip planning and hopefully greater gas tank capacity to make it a travel viable option.

I really like the idea of a car like the i3 that is very small, nimble, and fun to race around the city in. I just want it to fit my broader need of having real travel functionality. Tweaks associated with that could make it more appealing.
I didn't hijack anything (initially I was just making a sarcastic joke). The i3 is touted as the latest and greatest planet saving car. To talk about "tuning" it is just utterly ridiculous since the whole purpose of it is to conserve resources; making it go faster (either straight line or in curves) is just totally counterintuitive to whole argument of why the i3 exists. The car basically exists because politicians decided 54 MPG was the correct and proper fuel consumption rate and have mandated it by law, so in my mind it should be illegal to tamper with their wishes (for Utopia).

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      05-06-2014, 07:29 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Now you have the end of the logical argument; congratulations, you figured it out. By all means (ANY means) save the planet!
YOU FIRST!!!
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      05-06-2014, 11:18 AM   #33
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YOU FIRST!!!
I've not bit on all the envrionmental hype. Sorry.
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      05-06-2014, 01:19 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
You know what he meant, and stop being so much the PITA! Air pollution in a city is a major issue in many parts of the world, and can be an issue in the USA as well. Have you ever been to China? You almost want to be carrying around an oxygen bottle...it's really nasty. IF you can replace some of those ICE vehicles with cleaner ones, it's a good thing. And, you don't have regular used oil to recycle or have to deal with antifreeze or other liquids associated with an ICE that can be considered hazardous waste. Most electric power plants in the USA aren't bad, and usually located a ways from major metropolitan areas. Coal-fired ones are probably the worst, and with the current trends, those may be seeing their last days (give them maybe 20-years or so, and in the USA, there won't be many IMHO).

Windmills, solar cells, solar mirror arrays, more hydro, and tapping into tidal means more and more of the electricity produced is cleaner, too. Depending on where you live, with some of the credits and the shrinking costs, you may be able to recharge your vehicle with no recurring out of pocket costs.

There will likely always be a place for an ICE vehicle and you have to start somewhere...BMW seems well-placed to maybe help swing the ignorance and misconceptions about what a plug-in electric can do, let alone a plug-in hybrid as in the i8. Both, at relatively affordable prices for a luxury vehicle.
I am not being PITA at all. Also neither have I, get real please.
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      05-06-2014, 02:32 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by GeorgeJ. View Post
A couple whiners post and a thread about tuning potential is completely HIGHJACKED. ...

I really like the idea of a car like the i3 that is very small, nimble, and fun to race around the city in. I just want it to fit my broader need of having real travel functionality. Tweaks associated with that could make it more appealing.
My apology for being one of those guilty of feeding the hijack.

The two performance tweaks most desired by the sort of folks interested in an i3 probably have nothing to do with acceleration or corning ability. I suggest that they are the ability to easily engage the REx prior to ~ 6% useable battery state of charge, and greater fuel tank capacity for purchasers in the USA (the rest of the world already have these.)

I have it on good authority that the first is an easy fix that has already been worked out.

The second might require the purchase of a non-USA spec fuel tank, but I believe the more likely tweak would be to simply remove a plug that I am guessing BMW engineered to reduce the tank capacity from 2.4 to 1.9 gallons. If it is part of the circular bulkhead cap shown in this diagram, it should be an easy swap for the non-USA part:

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      05-06-2014, 03:26 PM   #36
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My apology for being one of those guilty of feeding the hijack.

The two performance tweaks most desired by the sort of folks interested in an i3 probably have nothing to do with acceleration or corning ability. I suggest that they are the ability to easily engage the REx prior to ~ 6% useable battery state of charge, and greater fuel tank capacity for purchasers in the USA (the rest of the world already have these.)

I have it on good authority that the first is an easy fix that has already been worked out.

The second might require the purchase of a non-USA spec fuel tank, but I believe the more likely tweak would be to simply remove a plug that I am guessing BMW engineered to reduce the tank capacity from 2.4 to 1.9 gallons. If it is part of the circular bulkhead cap shown in this diagram, it should be an easy swap for the non-USA part:

There is some confusion, I think, as if you check the UK website and the USA website, both sites indicate that the REx's fuel tank is 9-liters. Now, depending on whether you're talking a US gallon or an Imperial one, the numbers could get confusing, and misquoted, but a liter is a liter, and, at least as of today, the tank sold everywhere is listed as 9 of them. Now, could this change? Certainly, and maybe already has, but the 'official' documentation seems to indicate it hasn't.
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      05-06-2014, 04:02 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
There is some confusion, I think, as if you check the UK website and the USA website, both sites indicate that the REx's fuel tank is 9-liters. Now, depending on whether you're talking a US gallon or an Imperial one, the numbers could get confusing, and misquoted, but a liter is a liter, and, at least as of today, the tank sold everywhere is listed as 9 of them. Now, could this change? Certainly, and maybe already has, but the 'official' documentation seems to indicate it hasn't.
Please have a look at this post from the USA sales training material that indicates the USA version has a 1.9 US gallon tank.

http://bmwi3.blogspot.com/2014/04/mo...uncovered.html

Finally disagree that performance improvements are so antithetical to the ethos of the i3 as it is still a BMW - 'The Ultimate Driving Machine'. No matter what gets tweaked it will be a great deal greener than my Dinan tuned 135i. I imagine crossing town in an i3 would also be quicker for me than were I driving the 135i, it is quicker off the line, taller with that enhanced visability, and it is 15 inches shorter so it can tuck into smaller gaps in traffic. All of that said the biggest improvements I care about are finding a way to use it on a weekend trip where charging options may be limited. If I have to fill up every 75 miles fine, just make it possible.
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      05-06-2014, 04:47 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I've not bit on all the envrionmental hype. Sorry.
I don't give a crap about the hype either, I just like the concept of EV powered transportation, love the quiet, no engine noise and love the cost per mile of around $0.03 per mile vs $0.12 in even a very fuel efficient ICE. That's what I care about. The rest is just so much external non relevant background noise.
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      05-06-2014, 05:58 PM   #39
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I don't give a crap about the hype either, I just like the concept of EV powered transportation, love the quiet, no engine noise and love the cost per mile of around $0.03 per mile vs $0.12 in even a very fuel efficient ICE. That's what I care about. The rest is just so much external non relevant background noise.
Me too. I like EVs as well (I had a GE Electrak growing up circa 1972 - googelit), but I tire of the concept that EVs are planet-savers. Drove the Volt and LOVED it - it just doesn't economically fall into my commute requirements. There is no making excuses that EVs cost far more that a comparable ICE-powered car (size and class) and offer less utility; if one wants to pay for such things, then just own it and don't try to hide under the cloak that you are saving the planet.
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      05-06-2014, 06:34 PM   #40
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There is some confusion, I think, as if you check the UK website and the USA website, both sites indicate that the REx's fuel tank is 9-liters.
Nope. USA Website was recently updated with with the correct fuel tank capacity: i3 REx Specs It was necessary to lower the fuel capacity in order to ensure it would meet CARB BEVx criteria which does not allow gasoline range to exceed battery range.
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      05-06-2014, 10:31 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by GeorgeJ. View Post
If I have to fill up every 75 miles fine, just make it possible.
Stopping often enough, yes, you could continue to drive an i3 all day, assuming you can find a station open or a charge point along your way. My old Audi put up an alert every two hours of continuous operation, saying it was time to take a break, but at 75m, that may be more often. A 5-gallon gas can in the back would keep you going a long ways.

But, the REx isn't powerful enough to keep up with long mountain grades at speed, so that needs to be considered into the picture...it is not, nor was it designed to be, a long-distance cruiser vehicle.

If you like to take a leisurely ride cross-country, it could work if you planned your stops around recharge stations. That's going to be a bit hard over most of the USA for probably a long time, and plugging into 120-vac would make this a very long-term endeavor. Along say the east coast's megalopolis, you could probably do it (say between Boston and DC). But, there are lots of places, especially out west, where you can't find gasoline for over 100-miles, depending on your route, especially at certain times of the day. And, try that in the winter, you may have a bigger problem.
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      05-07-2014, 09:13 AM   #42
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....I imagine crossing town in an i3 would also be quicker for me than were I driving the 135i...
In many towns it is far, far quicker for a single occupant. Green or white stickers in California, and Alternative Fuel Vehicle tags in Georgia are only two examples of a great many legal authorizations for a single occupant vehicle to use HOV lanes.
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      10-30-2014, 05:42 PM   #43
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It has been five months since this thread went dormant. I recently read on the BMW BLOG about an owner that utilized the OBD II connection to change the settings to the European "Enable REx Hold option". With the REx engaged at 75% SOC he was able to drive from the (San Francisco) Bay Area over Donner Summit to Lake Tahoe. This is the "tune" that I have been waiting for. It does not suddenly make the i3 a great car for regular long trips, though it does unlock the opportunity to drive on those rare occasions when a couple hundred miles in a weekend is required, without plugging in.

95% of my driving will fall into the electric range and another 3-4% within the regular extended range. While I may only need this capability once a year it has been the reason I have not moved ahead with the i3. Now I am planning to do a three day test drive and look into the logistics of getting a 220 volt charger in my garage. While I am reasonably competent technologically, I still would not mind assistance with the coding change, could be a new cottage industry. Hooray
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      10-31-2014, 06:45 PM   #44
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Drives: i3 rex
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Calif

iTrader: (0)

As I think about the positives about this I can imagine BMW making changes that preclude owners from accessing this switch or removing it altogether from the software on USA bound vehicles. I would be exceptionally disappointed to acquire an i3, have the hold function enabled, and then a short time later have it permanently taken away.
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1975 2002 Inka/blk, 1975 2002 Red/blk (lthr) (owned '77-'79), 1976 2002 blue/tan (lthr) (owned '80-'81), 1979 M1 Orange/blk (owned '82-'84), 1980 320iS Silver/blk, 1984 323i Drk blue/cream(European) E30, 1996 M3 White/blk E36, 1998 328i Silver/blk E46, 2002 330i Silver/blk E46, 2006 330i Silver/blk E90, 2008 335iSilver/blk E90, 2012 135i SGM/blk E82 (all with manual gearboxes), 2014 i3 rex Arravani Grey/terra
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